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I basically have no knowledge when it comes hi fi equipment.My wife and I love music and would like to upgrade our system.We currently Have  Yamaha aventage series receiver (rx-a1000) and a set of Orpheus aurora 3 speakers.We will spend about $10000 on a new system.What I would like to know is whether a external dac is important,or just go with whatever is in a new amp  that I buy.I will also do a lot of streaming

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19 minutes ago, Ian Lyons said:

We will spend about $10000 on a new system. What I would like to know is whether a external dac is important,or just go with whatever is in a new amp  that I buy. I will also do a lot of streaming.

Definitely don't include the cost of a dedicated DAC in your $10,000 as it is not important.

The big important bits are your speakers and your room acoustics.

Get those right first and then later on if you want indulge in the audiophile tweaking hobby look at other small things like dedicated DAC's.

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If you’re spending that much, include a Dac, a good one will reward you, especially as you like to stream. 

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3 hours ago, Ian Lyons said:

or just go with whatever is in a new amp  that I buy

Do you expect that the new amp will have digital processing such as for room correction, and that you would leave such processing turned on?

 

If so, then using an external DAC would just introduce an additional conversion, because your amp would need to convert any incoming analogue to digital, process that digitally, and then convert back to analogue for high level output stages of the amp.

 

[Whereas, if you left the source stream as digital, your amp would manipulate that in the digital domain directly, without having to convert it first from analogue to digital.]

Edited by MLXXX
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Probably not. Assuming you’re really starting from no knowledge, a dac converts digital signals to analogue music so unless you’re listening to an all-analogue system (vinyl) there will be one in the system somewhere. 
 

The most important element to choose to suit your taste (and your room) is the speakers, then you need an amplifier that’s capable of driving your speakers, then you need a streaming source. Either the source or, these days, the amplifier (possibly both) are likely to have a dac built-in so it’s unlikely you’ll need an external dac. Possibly at some point you might want to add one as an upgrade but I wouldn’t worry about it now, just pay attention to the speakers, amp and source, in that order. 
 

Don’t discount the importance of the space the system is going in. Room treatment or room correction might help you there but it’s a lot to take in and many can’t accomodate it or simply don’t bother. It depends on what you want to achieve and whether it’s going into a multi-purpose room. 

 

What you really need is experience. Try to get around to some hifi shops and listen to some different systems to get an idea of what you like. Even if you’re a long way away it’s worth making a trip for a $10,000 investment


good luck and make sure you keep us updated with how it’s going. We’re suckers for that sort of thing around here :)  

Edited by RankStranger
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9 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

What you really need is experience. Try to get around to some hifi shops and listen to some different systems to get an idea of what you like. Even if you’re a long way away it’s worth making a trip for a $10,000 investment

Full agree.  Especially when new to hifi...

3 hours ago, Ian Lyons said:

I basically have no knowledge when it comes hi fi equipment.

Have a list of favourite music to audition at the hifi shop (but not Harvey Norman, JB Hifi who are more interested in pushing boxes).   Listen and educate yourself on what you like, but be aware that it is human nature to prefer something that is played louder.  In other words, when comparing systems, try and make them about the same loudness.

3 hours ago, Ian Lyons said:

Have  Yamaha aventage series receiver (rx-a1000) and a set of Orpheus aurora 3 speakers.We will spend about $10000 on a new system.What I would like to know is whether a external dac is important,or just go with whatever is in a new amp  that I buy.I will also do a lot of streaming

A home theatre receiver is not designed for music and likely the speakers should be upgraded.  HOWEVER, they may still be acceptable even after auditionings at hifi shops.  Different people have different requirements for music and you will need to come up with what is good enough for both of you.  While we can give you suggestions, and the hifi retailers will do the same, the final decision should be made by both of you.

 

$10K is a decent amount to spend.  There is a huge debate on how to split the money on speakers, amps, sources etc, so best not to raise this until you have done some auditioning. My suggestion is to keep the setup as simple as possible with minimum boxes.

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As snoop says, keep it simple and focus on the things that you’re less likely to change along the way.


Keeping your receiver, adding an inexpensive streamer like a Bluesound Node and spending the rest on speakers is a sound path to go. Spend $1k on room treatment panels and it’s likely to you will be in a much better place than you are now. 

 

A DAC is a very personal thing. Some people hear worlds of differences between them, some none at all. It’s the piece of the system that generates the most debate (until audiophiles discovered networking). 
 

most of all, don’t be afraid to try out used gear. It’s a fraction of the cost of new and there are some serious bargains to be had if you’re patient.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I thank you for your replies.I definitely like Snoops keep it simple to start with. Its nice  to know there is a forum  out there for music tragics.i have been out and about and listened to quite a selection of speakers.Maybe I will spend more on the speakers than first budgeted and leave the external dac.I will keep everyone posted.

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I personally think it is important. However, it depends on how revealing is the system and how sensitive are your ears lol. Looking at your budget, it is definitely something that you might want to look into.

 

Because of technology, there are now a lot of good budget DACs that deliver pretty good performance. And that is one reason why some people prefer to get pure analogue amps so they are not stuck with the internal DAC as digital technology evolves. 

 

From another point of view, you should not limit your amp choices based on whether it has a built-in DAC. This will give you a wider selection (may or may not be a good thing lol).

 

Happy shopping!

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i think the industry is also currently going through an evolution where streamers and dacs are combined. i feel its not quite there yet in terms of price to performance and how it should be implemented in ones system. i would have suggested to buy a nice dac now, but i think the direction the industry is going might make it difficult to connect an external dac to the streamer (ie lack of usb out). plus, these things are always advancing and dropping in prices. in all, i wouldnt spend too much in the digital side right now and some may suggest never at all.

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On 19/10/2020 at 5:12 PM, Ian Lyons said:

I basically have no knowledge when it comes hi fi equipment.My wife and I love music and would like to upgrade our system.We currently Have  Yamaha aventage series receiver (rx-a1000) and a set of Orpheus aurora 3 speakers.We will spend about $10000 on a new system.What I would like to know is whether a external dac is important,or just go with whatever is in a new amp  that I buy.I will also do a lot of streaming

 

G'day Ian and welcome to the forums. 

 

Before you drop $10K on a new system, it would be good to know what you like/dislike about your current system and what you're looking for in your new setup. 

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Well alistairm  I think the best way to put it,is that I dont get that wonderful emotional feeling from my system. THAT is what I am looking for.l have been out and listened to speakers around $6000 (Kef,B&W,Dyneaudio)and nothing made me feel any different to my own speakers.I then went into another room for fun and listened to some Amphion Ktyptons ($28000)and that was the feeling I was looking for.But I dont have the money.I then went looking for Amphion Argons which I found and quite liked .It was hooked up to a Prima Luna Evo 400.I then listened to the Prima hooked up to Spendor 7.2 and they  pipped the Amphions.I am now waiting to hear a pair of ML2's.I dont know if droping to an amp a little cheaper will affect my emotional  connection but I hope not as I cant afford another $7000

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2 hours ago, Ian Lyons said:

Well alistairm  I think the best way to put it,is that I dont get that wonderful emotional feeling from my system. THAT is what I am looking for.l have been out and listened to speakers around $6000 (Kef,B&W,Dyneaudio)and nothing made me feel any different to my own speakers.I then went into another room for fun and listened to some Amphion Ktyptons ($28000)and that was the feeling I was looking for.But I dont have the money.I then went looking for Amphion Argons which I found and quite liked .It was hooked up to a Prima Luna Evo 400.I then listened to the Prima hooked up to Spendor 7.2 and they  pipped the Amphions.I am now waiting to hear a pair of ML2's.I dont know if droping to an amp a little cheaper will affect my emotional  connection but I hope not as I cant afford another $7000

 

If that's the case, it probably means that you may be not getting the best out of your current speakers. May want to look at getting a stereo amp like the Yamaha S2200 or the S3200 with a external DAC. In general, stereo amps are really better suited for music.

Edited by douggie
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A good DAC (implementation) is very important. But I would advice, like many have, to focus primarily on speakers. 
 

Speakers that fit your room in terms of size and esthetics. That move enough air to make the space justice and produces a sound you like for the music you listen to. 
 

Any system accepting a digital signal and sending out an analogue has a DAC going on somewhere. If you buy something integrated look for something relatively newly designed to get as good chip as possible. And don’t forget about streaming when you sit with your budget. 
 

Thankfully there are great stuff within your budget that has everything in one box (or two) and that is still letting you push most of the budget into speakers. 

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16 hours ago, Ian Lyons said:

Well alistairm  I think the best way to put it,is that I dont get that wonderful emotional feeling from my system. THAT is what I am looking for.l have been out and listened to speakers around $6000 (Kef,B&W,Dyneaudio)and nothing made me feel any different to my own speakers.I then went into another room for fun and listened to some Amphion Ktyptons ($28000)and that was the feeling I was looking for.But I dont have the money.I then went looking for Amphion Argons which I found and quite liked .It was hooked up to a Prima Luna Evo 400.I then listened to the Prima hooked up to Spendor 7.2 and they  pipped the Amphions.I am now waiting to hear a pair of ML2's.I dont know if droping to an amp a little cheaper will affect my emotional  connection but I hope not as I cant afford another $7000

Ian

 

You have a wonderful journey in front of you, with many different paths to follow. With a $10K budget and a mission to find emotional feedback from your system, I would suggest that you find a few tracks you find engaging and then listen to as many systems as you can that fit within your parameters of size and cost. 

 

And please factor some simple room treatments into your equation, if you can. They make more difference than most electronics.

 

I can absolutely promise you that more expensive does not necessarily equal more engaging, and everybody's reaction to a system is highly personal. I can also promise you that there is a setup out there that you will react to. It might be a valve amp with small bookhelf speakers (very much my flavour), or it might be class D powerhouse amps driving something massive with paper drivers that crushes everything with a wall of sound. And if you're doing it with your wife, you'll know you've got it right when she enjoys the system as much as you do. 

 

Enjoy! 

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On 19/10/2020 at 8:44 PM, aussievintage said:

Good or bad is a matter of opinion of course, but these guys have a nice new showroom setup

 

https://www.theaudiotailor.com.au/

 

 

 

 

went there on saturday to get a replacement stylus as they were the only shop to have the one i wanted on the shelf.even my usual shop didn’t have any on their shelf.  i phoned the audio trailer and they were very help full. the staff member who took my inquiry said i could take in my TT so they could check that  i have it set up correctly even though i did not purchase the TT from them so very helpful.

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I think I have blown the budget.I recently listed tio some spendor d7.2 powered by Prima Luna Evo 400.Beautiful,but due to personal problems when I got home I had to delay the purchase.I am now waiting to hear spendor 9's that are 2yo in a couple of weeks and they are reasonable price.I will post when I hear them

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Whatever you choose, just make sure the amp can drive the speakers. Plenty of folks on here to help you. And don’t rush, if you miss something, something else will come up just as good.

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My advice is whatever you decide to buy, buy it here 2nd hand on SNA.   Your $10,000 will get you $20,000.

 

Check out the sellars via their length of service on SNA and their Feedback from past sales.

 

Plenty of great stuff for sale in Qld.

 

When in doubt, just ask for more advice here.

 

Happy buying

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

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19 minutes ago, cazzesman said:

My advice is whatever you decide to buy, buy it here 2nd hand on SNA.   Your $10,000 will get you $20,000.

 

Check out the sellars via their length of service on SNA and their Feedback from past sales.

 

Plenty of great stuff for sale in Qld.

 

When in doubt, just ask for more advice here.

 

Happy buying

 

Regards Cazzesman

 

 

100% 👍

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