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Projector upgrade options/improvements?


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Hey everyone,

 

I've been using a Epson TW9200W into a screen technics dropdown screen for the past 5 or so years. It has served me well and gets used every day for all Netflix/movie etc watching as we don't have a standard TV. The wireless feature had been great and trouble free as I was unable to run cables across my room in my current place. 

 

I'm now moving house and will have a more dedicated room (light controlled) for HT and the possibility of mounting to the ceiling and running cables etc. 

 

I understand that 4k projectors and content are far more widely available these days. Is there a big jump in quality to be had at present (at sub 5 or 10k prices new) for general Netflix/streaming watching + occasional Bluray? I spend most of my time watching tv series. 

 

Or should I just mount my current projector/run cables and switch it st some stage in the future? Are the mounts specific to the projectors? 

 

It's a good size room  5.5*7 so I'll be able to pick my sitting position etc based on my hifi/HT requirements. I would prioritise ideal hifi speaker placement at this stage.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

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I can’t think of anyone who has purchased a new native 4K projector and has wished that they stayed with their old 2K model.  The question of  need or justification doesn’t come into it  for this sort of gear - if you want the best, go for it.

 

But to answer your question - yes, a native 4K projector will make all all viewing better, including 2k material upscaled By the PJ.   The number of 4K shows and movies being released is increasing all the time and Netflix is a most prolific producer of 4K shows.  Of course with these you get the added dimensions of HDR/ Dolby Vision and a wider colour gamut.

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Thanks good info!

Seems native 4k projectors aren't cheap (closer to 10K), or pseduo 4k ones can be had for 2-5k. I'm happy with my Epson currently but will check it out before committing. I'm not against waiting and buying something super nice if it's worth it in the end!

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1 hour ago, mmv said:

Thanks good info!

Seems native 4k projectors aren't cheap (closer to 10K), or pseduo 4k ones can be had for 2-5k. I'm happy with my Epson currently but will check it out before committing. I'm not against waiting and buying something super nice if it's worth it in the end!

JVC N5 (true 4K) can be had for under $7K if your budget stretches that far.

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2 hours ago, Riv39 said:

What is the price point for native 4k with a laser light source?

Well ; that would depend on your definition of true 4k . If you agree with optoma and the ISF the texas instrument dlp chipset is indeed true 4k . The alternative view is because the 1080p micromirrors have to switch positions [very quickly] its a form of e-shift..

Your choice . A lot of 4k discs are 2k dci upscaled ..

Of course these prices does not give you the contrast on/off of a JVC or Sony 4k [ which is around the 20k mark for the new replacement for the 760es model]. The optoma UHZ65 is about 1/2 the price of a sony but is a good example of why you shouldnt just go with labels ; a sony would be much superior with say 4k hdr material bitmapping and processing..

No one solution is good for everyone ; the lamp version of the optoma 65 is cheaper again as an example B|

https://www.optoma.com/au/product/uhz65/

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it all comes down to how much into the visuals you are. do you sit there making mental notes on how this or that can be improved or do you just watch the movie/show etc.

 

what sound system will you be matching with the potentially $10k + new projector? no good imo  matching a top of the line pj with middle of the road single sub sound system.

 

same for the room situation, lots of glass, light colours, hard furnishings etc.

 

work out your budget and go from there

Edited by hopefullguy
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If you were happy with your 9200, it would also be worth looking at the 9400. Yes, it’s still faux 4K but there have been many improvements since the 9200. I reckon it’s extremely good considering the price.

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11 hours ago, Riv39 said:

What is the price point for native 4k with a laser light source?

Sony 790ES  23k

Sony 870ES 35k

JVC Z1 40k

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16 hours ago, mmv said:

Thanks good info!

Seems native 4k projectors aren't cheap (closer to 10K), or pseduo 4k ones can be had for 2-5k. I'm happy with my Epson currently but will check it out before committing. I'm not against waiting and buying something super nice if it's worth it in the end!

RRP Native 4K projector under $10k


Sony  270ES  -$9199

 

JVC N5 - $ 9399

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

it all comes down to how much into the visuals you are. do you sit there making mental notes on how this or that can be improved or do you just watch the movie/show etc.

 

what sound system will you be matching with the potentially $10k + new projector? no good imo  matching a top of the line pj with middle of the road single sub sound system.

 

same for the room situation, lots of glass, light colours, hard furnishings etc.

 

work out your budget and go from there

I'm definately more into my 2ch hifi than home theatre. And would probably prioritise unnecessary speaker upgrades etc upgrading my projector visuals. In saying that the projector gets a lot of use, though I think when it's installed I care more about the content itself.

 

I finally have a somewhat dedicated room for both my 2ch channel and home theatre setup this time round. Ironically I have both separate audio setups for my home theatre & Hi-Fi. I may look at rationalising that - but the 2ch is more Liable to chop and change. So there is some sense in keeping them separate!

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Firstly, apologies for my short rather basic question and thanks for all the answers.  I have been using Sony SXRD projectors for approx. 6 years. Currently using a VPL-HW65ES for the last 3 years as the previous model was replaced under warranty just before the end of the 3 year warranty due to an issue with the prism causing unacceptable colour non-uniformity.

 

I have found the SXRD technology delivers a good quality image but, as has been the case with my two previous Epson PJ's, colour non-uniformity seems to develop over time as the PJ ages and (at least to me) becomes very noticeable in images with predominant grey (and some other colour shades) e.g. black and white films or large areas of fog or grey sky.

 

Thus my question regarding 4K and laser technology price point.  I see too many rainbows for single chip DLP and I am looking for something that has no colour non-uniformity problems either at new or over time.  All this at a sub $10k.  Am I dreaming?  I probably am by the sounds of it.

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10 hours ago, flamjam said:

If you were happy with your 9200, it would also be worth looking at the 9400. Yes, it’s still faux 4K but there have been many improvements since the 9200. I reckon it’s extremely good considering the price.

Indeed, also has a superior lens than even the N5 and 270.

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40 minutes ago, oztheatre said:

Indeed, also has a superior lens than even the N5 and 270.

Thanks. I had read similar. Will give you a call to chat at some stage!

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2 hours ago, Riv39 said:

Firstly, apologies for my short rather basic question and thanks for all the answers.  I have been using Sony SXRD projectors for approx. 6 years. Currently using a VPL-HW65ES for the last 3 years as the previous model was replaced under warranty just before the end of the 3 year warranty due to an issue with the prism causing unacceptable colour non-uniformity.

 

I have found the SXRD technology delivers a good quality image but, as has been the case with my two previous Epson PJ's, colour non-uniformity seems to develop over time as the PJ ages and (at least to me) becomes very noticeable in images with predominant grey (and some other colour shades) e.g. black and white films or large areas of fog or grey sky.

 

Thus my question regarding 4K and laser technology price point.  I see too many rainbows for single chip DLP and I am looking for something that has no colour non-uniformity problems either at new or over time.  All this at a sub $10k.  Am I dreaming?  I probably am by the sounds of it.

If you want a good family reunion, the JmGO-S3-4K-Laser-Projector will make that happen 🤣

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

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4 hours ago, mmv said:

I'm definately more into my 2ch hifi than home theatre. And would probably prioritise unnecessary speaker upgrades etc upgrading my projector visuals. In saying that the projector gets a lot of use, though I think when it's installed I care more about the content itself.


I have separate 2 channel and Home Theatre setups - It is a VERY expensive way to go to achieve the best of each world.    But since you recognise and value quality I don’t think you will be satisfied  with anything less than a native 4K  3 chip projector from Sony or JVC.  
 

Of course a new Epson is the best choice at its price point , but I think anyone so discerning about  performance , ( such that they even have separate  2 channel and AV setups)  would not be satisfied for long knowing that true 4K capabilities  are the future and 4K UHD content is increasing at a  fast pace 

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5 hours ago, Riv39 said:

 

Thus my question regarding 4K and laser technology price point.  I see too many rainbows for single chip DLP and I am looking for something that has no colour non-uniformity problems either at new or over time.  All this at a sub $10k.  Am I dreaming?  I probably am by the sounds of it.


Colour uniformity issues with 3  chip projectors  would be limited to panel alignment  unless the projector is faulty.  Spending time on doing panel alignment properly  should resolve any issues, particularly for the newer models.  Achievable sub-10k.


For DLP rainbow issues, that is very much an individual thing and there is no real substitute to viewing it personally to see if you identify a rainbow effect. And if you do, whether it is significant to you.  Obviously there are many who don’t see or care about it, and others that clearly do. 

Edited by TP1
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11 minutes ago, TP1 said:


Colour uniformity issues with 3  chip projectors  would be limited to panel alignment  unless the projector is faulty.  Spending time on doing panel alignment properly  should resolve any issues, particularly for the newer models.  Achievable sub-10k.

 

I assume that correct panel alignment is probably a function of panel design and time devoted to actual alignment.  The problem is that panel alignment out of the box is often questionable.  Given this is a factory process there is little a consumer can do but escalate to the point of sale and rely on the manufacturer to remedy the situation.

 

I can assure you that deterioration over time is possible.  I can't explain why but I have seen this happen on both Epson and Sony PJ's.  Perhaps this is related to actual deterioration of one or all of the panels, or in the case of one of my Sony PJ's, an issue with the prism which was not a problem out of the box and only manifested after nearly 3 years as a very noticeable colour non-uniformity problem.

 

My personal experience in this matter has lead me to believe that colour non-uniformity is overlooked or not considered as important by the manufacturer.  I have been told many different stories from "I can't see it" to "that's within specification".  Neither of these excuses are acceptable and all they do is reflect poorly on the manufacturer.

 

I'm also led to believe that clolour uniformity issues are not just a problem for sub 10k PJ's.

 

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3 hours ago, Riv39 said:

I assume that correct panel alignment is probably a function of panel design and time devoted to actual alignment.  The problem is that panel alignment out of the box is often questionable.  Given this is a factory process there is little a consumer can do but escalate to the point of sale and rely on the manufacturer to remedy the situation.

 

 

There are menu tools to correct panel alignment on a global basis and at the individual zone ( grid point)  level.  It isn't difficult to do.  The global alignment would take a couple of minutes and the detailed zone alignment  should be around 15-20 minutes taking it carefully.  

 

 If you are examining the screen from a few cm  away,  you may find issues with any projector and while single-chip DLP doesn't have convergence issues as such, there are problems that go way past rainbow effect.    3-Chip reflective LCD have superior colour saturation and vibrancy  because  all 3 primary colours can be projected  without any timing gap. The DLP spinning wheel  only allows one colour at a time to be transmitted  which results in less colour volume hitting the screen for a given light output.  Of course the biggest single drawback to single-chip  4K DLP is its lack of contrast.    I came from a long history of single-chip DLP a couple of years ago. I did detailed panel alignments and have never looked back.

Edited by TP1
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3 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

There are menu tools to correct panel alignment on a global basis and at the individual zone ( grid point)  level.  It isn't difficult to do.  The global alignment would take a couple of minutes and the detailed zone alignment  should be around 15-20 minutes taking it carefully.  

 

I was unaware that colour non-uniformity (magenta or green discoloration to large areas of the screen) could be removed through adjustment in the menu.

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22 hours ago, Riv39 said:

(magenta or green discoloration to large areas of the scree

 

For large colour blotches, the issue could be anything including  dust in the light path  or faulty electronics, assuming panel alignment has been done correctly.  Common cause for this is damaged polarisers.  Probably best to have a tech look at it.

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2 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

For large colour blotches, the issue could be anything including  dust in the light path  or faulty electronics, assuming panel alignment has been done correctly.  Common cause for this is damaged polarisers.  Probably best to have a tech look at it.

It is not colour blotches, it's the inability of the PJ to project a particular colour uniformly in an area of the screen.  So it's colour non-uniformity.  

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1 hour ago, Riv39 said:

It is not colour blotches, it's the inability of the PJ to project a particular colour uniformly in an area of the screen.  So it's colour non-uniformity.  

You should do a detailed panel alignment first to see if that corrects the issue 

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On 16/10/2020 at 11:10 AM, TP1 said:


But since you recognise and value quality I don’t think you will be satisfied  with anything less than a native 4K  3 chip projector from Sony or JVC.  
 

Of course a new Epson is the best choice at its price point , but I think anyone so discerning about  performance , ( such that they even have separate  2 channel and AV setups)  would not be satisfied for long knowing that true 4K capabilities  are the future and 4K UHD content is increasing at a  fast pace. 

 

4k is the new standard but it's not moving that fast, I think the take up has been much slower than blu ray tbh. But 2k projectors with great lenses destroy 4k projectors with average lenses. that's just how it works. image clarity is not about pixels and never has been, but optics and good panel alignment.

 

Full step panel alignments are ok, IF the PJ is out by more than half a pixel, more the better. micro alignments soften the image too much and should be avoided as they are not true panel alignments but software driven. Owen was very against this for a reason, he was right.

 

I've had here all the 500 series sonys from the 500es, so 4 models and some of them 2 of each, 2 760es machines, one was dropped by courier so went back, 4 benq machines, all the jvcs aside from the nx9 and z1 and the epson bests them all for optics aside from the LK benqs which are 18 grand and have the best lenses I've seen with the jvc n7 being very close also. I think even woofer agreed the 970 had a sharper image than his Z1. Shame they didn't do much else right for cinema.

 

It's obviously a very difficult thing to get right, but somehow epson seemed to have nailed it. And I assure you there is more money to be made selling expensive 4k machines so it's not about money at all. When they do a native 4k, lamp or laser unit, they will give the competition a serious run for their money. And this is desperately needed.

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