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Which ECC83 and ECC82 tubes


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To the SNA Tube gurus,  a quick question regarding ECC83 and ECC82 tubes.  What ones do you go for..?

 

Destination of these will be a Luxman EQ500

http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=6

 

The EQ500 comes with JJ Electronica as stock tubes, but I would like to understand if there are better options to put into the unit 

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On 11/10/2020 at 10:52 AM, scuzzii said:

To the SNA Tube gurus,  a quick question regarding ECC83 and ECC82 tubes.  What ones do you go for..?

 

Destination of these will be a Luxman EQ500

http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=6

 

The EQ500 comes with JJ Electronica as stock tubes, but I would like to understand if there are better options to put into the unit 

There are many dozens of excellent NOS (New Old Stock) options from late 1940s –mid 1960s that I am confident will outperform all current production tubes especially 12AU7 – it just comes down to your budget.

Edited by Aperalim
typo
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@MoveD has the exact same unit and started his rolling journey a few months ago. He might be able to chime in and share his tube rolling experiences.

 

Be careful of height clearance in the EQ500 when considering tube substitutes of increased height and tube adapters converting the tube from one type to another - they won't fit.

 

Try getting yourself a GEC U709 for the EZ81/6CA4 rectifier and for low noise options Rochester Brimar or Mitcham Mullard vintage box plates for the 2 x 12AX7 and 1 x 12AU7 positions. You could also try the Raytheon 5751 windmill getters for the 12AX7 positions.

 

 

Edited by xlr8or
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12AX7 Amperex Holland OEM labels, 1960s vintage, $180.00 per matched pair

 Or top end Brimar UK military CV4035 “flying lead” 9 pin modified 12AX7 $300.00 per pair

 12AU7 Mullard UK made OEM label $70.00 USD.


Above was the advice I got from Brent Jesse of audio tubes when I had asked him a similar question. Insured Shipping to Australia will be 40 Usd 

 

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Hard to give a definitive answer here without really knowing your taste and system sonics. 
I was bitten by the tube rolling bug a little while back which now sees me with 40+ different pairs of 12AX7’s, about 12 12AU7’s and 8 quads of 12AT7’s. 
A very worthwhile and fun exercise! 

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8 minutes ago, Be Quiet...Listen said:

I was bitten by the tube rolling bug a little while back which now sees me with 40+ different pairs of 12AX7’s, about 12 12AU7’s and 8 quads of 12AT7’s. 

Hahah yes quite a bug that....yes me too but I ended up with over 600 NOS 12AU7s!?!?!

Time to say farewell to most of them now though...

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1 minute ago, Be Quiet...Listen said:

Yes. Very easy to get carried away! 

Carried away, washed down the river and plunge over the waterfall : )

But no better way to learn what is the best 12AU7 in my equipment than try to listen to almost every type of 12AU7 ever made I suppose...

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Just now, Aperalim said:

Carried away, washed down the river and plunge over the waterfall : )

But no better way to learn what is the best 12AU7 in my equipment than try to listen to almost every type of 12AU7 ever made I suppose...

That’s the end destination I suppose 🤣

So, what were the stand outs in your system? 

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8 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

Hahah yes quite a bug that....yes me too but I ended up with over 600 NOS 12AU7s!?!?!

Time to say farewell to most of them now though...

You do know that with obsessions, 'letting go of them' is cathartic?  I am willing to be the bearer of your 'cross' for no charge! 😎

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Just putting in my 2 cents worth; 

 

  • JJ tubes are extremely good value for money. Don’t let their modest price fool you. It’s not just my opinion but other professional amp manufactures in the industry.
  • ”83s” will have more gain with a brightness on top and “82s” more drive and smoother more relaxed sound. 
  • you have to try them in your system to see which is best.
  • also try a 12AT7 for something outside of the two. I have two low power tube amps where these sound the best. I did try others. 
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8 minutes ago, Be Quiet...Listen said:

So, what were the stand outs in your system? 

Ahah so many wonderful 12AU7 tubes but some so ridiculously rare only a few ever found in years hunting and unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps)  some of them proved the best performers like these 5 rarities:

 

Thomson-CSF black plate, folded foil getter, 6189-12AU7WA (Saint Egreve factory) c1966 France. 

NEC black welded plate, vegetable peeler getter, 12AU7 (Tokyo factory) 1950 Japan.

La RadioTechnique grey plate, mesh getter, RT 12AU7S (Suresne factory) 1956 France.

Siemens welded plate, large D-getter,  ECC82 (Copenhagen factory) 1953 Denmark.

Tungsram welded plate, folded foil getter,  ECC82 (Radium, Tilburg factory ) 1952 Netherlands.

 

Cheers

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18 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

NEC black welded plate, vegetable peeler getter, 12AU7 (Tokyo factory) 1950 Japan.

Yep, + 1

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10 hours ago, Be Quiet...Listen said:

Hard to give a definitive answer here without really knowing your taste and system sonics. 
I was bitten by the tube rolling bug a little while back which now sees me with 40+ different pairs of 12AX7’s, about 12 12AU7’s and 8 quads of 12AT7’s. 
A very worthwhile and fun exercise! 

 

hi,

 

what i want to avoid is anything that will make the system bright.  So anything that introduces glare or harshness i don't want in the system.

 

I suppose i assumed the stock tubes would have an element of glare, maybe that's not correct.  Just been my experience with other tube based component with the stock tubes coming from China.

 

So something that opens up the soundstage, brings lots of headroom, a nice balance of details and smoothness (not too woolly / bloomy).

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10 hours ago, scuzzii said:

 

hi,

 

what i want to avoid is anything that will make the system bright.  So anything that introduces glare or harshness i don't want in the system.

 

I suppose i assumed the stock tubes would have an element of glare, maybe that's not correct.  Just been my experience with other tube based component with the stock tubes coming from China.

 

So something that opens up the soundstage, brings lots of headroom, a nice balance of details and smoothness (not too woolly / bloomy).

Will PM you.

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thanks everyone.

 

I have secured some NEC ECC82s (as per list above).

 

For ECC83, the main ones that come up are

 

Telefunken

Mullard 

Brimar

 

Sound signature wise, the Mullards are probably the warmest of the three, with the TF being more neutral of the three..?

Edited by scuzzii
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39 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

thanks everyone.

 

I have secured some NEC ECC82s (as per list above).

 

For ECC83, the main ones that come up are

 

Telefunken

Mullard 

Brimar

 

Sound signature wise, the Mullards are probably the warmest of the three, with the TF being more neutral of the three..?

Another one to consider is Tesla E83CC. not the JJ production but the old original Tesla

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On 11/10/2020 at 1:52 PM, scuzzii said:

To the SNA Tube gurus,  a quick question regarding ECC83 and ECC82 tubes.  What ones do you go for..?

 

Destination of these will be a Luxman EQ500

http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=6

 

The EQ500 comes with JJ Electronica as stock tubes, but I would like to understand if there are better options to put into the unit 

pb4.jpg

Great post to get the suggestions coming John. I now have two amps needing 12AU7s (changed the Ming Da...), so will use this as a bit of a guide. Saves me some research time. Now just to work on the EL84s and the 6N6s. Tube rolling is fun, yes?

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14 minutes ago, markm1111 said:

Great post to get the suggestions coming John. I now have two amps needing 12AU7s (changed the Ming Da...), so will use this as a bit of a guide. Saves me some research time. Now just to work on the EL84s and the 6N6s. Tube rolling is fun, yes?

yeah - lots of ways to uplift the sound mate.  I probably have some 6SN7 tubes.  I recall grabbing a few diff type - RCA reds, Ken Rads, Sylvania.  

 

I had some EL34's but not EL84's

 

http://www.audiotubes.com/6bq5.htm

Edited by scuzzii
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On 13/10/2020 at 10:35 PM, Red MacKay said:

For 12AX7s, Mullard box plates win every time.  Really hard to find now though.

Wow expensive :( ..but the good one's usually are .

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  • 3 months later...
On 13/10/2020 at 11:41 PM, xlr8or said:

@Red MacKay you're absolutely spot on with this recommendation.

 

Now here you go you tubeaholics there are 6 Mitcham 1960's box plates still available in the UK with cosmetic painted gold pins. Rip in like vultures and clear the lot: 😁

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312569607953

Only two left! 
 

Amazing tubes! Thanks again Kirk! They are singing beautifully. 🙏🏻 


84BE8282-F703-4811-A7A2-55F2E2D11C1A.thumb.jpeg.1c003eeab6df8782018cb0ca297e4700.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, MoveD said:

Only two left! 
 

Amazing tubes! Thanks again Kirk! They are singing beautifully. 🙏🏻 


84BE8282-F703-4811-A7A2-55F2E2D11C1A.thumb.jpeg.1c003eeab6df8782018cb0ca297e4700.jpeg

 

 

Cheers Dave,  I've decided to move the EQ500 so I wont be buying any ECC83s - I will include the ECC82s with the unit to the new seller.

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2 minutes ago, scuzzii said:

 

 

Cheers Dave,  I've decided to move the EQ500 so I wont be buying any ECC83s - I will include the ECC82s with the unit to the new seller.


Cool! Consider you also have the Brinkmann, probably a much better phono? 👍

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Yeah, both are exceptional to be honest. They do things different to each other.  EQ500 is approx. half the price of the Edison, so its not a fair fight in that sense.  But i would have been happy with either and did contemplate keeping both.

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For those who is still interested, after a few months of tube rolling I found these tubes best in my Luxman EQ 500 sofar... With these tubes, the EQ 500 is no longer the shy boy it once was and grown into something much better 😁: -

 

12AX7 -

1961 - 1964 Mullard Premium E83CC Mitcham

 

12AU7 -

1959 Phillips M8316 Harleen

 

Would have tried some E8OCC unfortunately the EQ500 can’t accommodate their height.

 

EZ81 -

1957 Mullard EZ81 Blackburn

 

Big thumbs up to Kirk for his patience and help. 
 

As usual with tube rolling, the journey continue...

 

Oh for those newbies like me, don’t believe those who told you rectifier tube don’t make a difference. Get rid of the JJ!

 

Really want to try the G.E.C. U709 but it’s too hard to come by so still hunting for one - let me know if you want to pass on yours. 😁


 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MoveD
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I use Mullard CV4003 (ECC82) and Brimar CV5042's in my Setup---not to difficult to find and inexpensive compared to some variants.--this combo

easily the purest I found to drive my Taka 300B's.

Good luck,

 

Willco

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U have lots of good advice already.  There seem to be consensus that vintage tubes will always sound better (esp compare with new Chinese tubes)

-Instead of looking for ‘the best’ tube, try to match ur tube with the amps, phono cartridge etc in ur system.  Think both tonality and gain.  
Eg between 12AT7/ecc81 (mu60) to 12AX7/ecc83 (mu100) there are many variants , eg 5751 (mu70).  Finding the appropriate gain help locate the ‘sweet spot’ in ur amps

-listen for tonality that suit ur system.  Many have already commented.  European, British and American variants have different tonal signature.

 

Musicians, guitar amp guys knew that long ago about the importance of fine tuning with small signal valves.

 

unfortunately that means u may need more than one set of tubes!

 

best

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22 minutes ago, denimhunter said:

There seem to be consensus that vintage tubes will always sound better (esp compare with new Chinese tubes)

 

In general, but there are exceptions.  The best of the new stuff (Psvane etc) are really very good.  They will equal or beat some of the NOS stuff.  In the end, it comes down to personal preference.

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