Are expensive interconnects really worth the extra bucks?

[RankStranger]

Though I don’t own any, feedback suggests that Bill’s cables are artificially inexpensive for their performance, similar to Clay’s DACs. I’m sure if they had to factor in warehousing, distribution costs, marketing etc. they would still be great but perhaps as the giants, rather than the giant-killers

 

impossible (and mostly pointless) to quantify but maybe their value proposition is more akin to 2nd hand, rather than new brand name products or at least something in between?

Edited October 13, 2020 by RankStranger

[Misternavi]

21 hours ago, Hawk66 said:

Thanks for all the comments!  This forum is such a great vehicle for getting a good dose of diverse and mixed responses, which is exactly what I was after.  As  a result I have now been introduced to Bill from QLD who is making me some boutique cables that are not going to result in me having to mortgage the house.   Buying from the member network and from Aussie sellers is so satisfying.  Thanks once again for all the passionate comments.

Cables from Bill are perfect for any system. Cheap and well made.  There are a lot more expensive and degrading to the sound cables out there.

Speaker and interconnect Cables make a difference but NOT a big enough of difference to spend a lot of money.

[aussievintage]

1 hour ago, RankStranger said:

Though I don’t own any, feedback suggests that Bill’s cables are artificially inexpensive for their performance,

Perhaps they are the right price.  I suspect he is doing OK at his price.  It's the others that are artifically expensive.

[RankStranger]

5 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

Perhaps they are the right price.  I suspect he is doing OK at his price.  It's the others that are artifically expensive.

That was my (poorly made) point. It was no judgement on what he does or what the big names do. Merely an observation that the business models are vastly different and it’s probably not useful to hold one against the other for certain metrics

[muon*]

1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

Perhaps they are the right price.  I suspect he is doing OK at his price.  It's the others that are artifically expensive.

I'd definitely say under priced.

 

What you term as artificially expensive in the lower price end is correct pricing if running a business where you need feed your family.

[cazzesman]

If you can find some 2nd hand Gary Cawsey 75 ohm interconnects then snap them up.    I have 3 pair I don’t currently use but never giving them up.

 

Regards Cazzesman

[aussievintage]

13 minutes ago, muon* said:

What you term as artificially expensive in the lower price end is correct pricing.

No it's not, but then I don't know how you know what I was thinking that price point might be.  

 

[muon*]

45 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

No it's not, but then I don't know how you know what I was thinking that price point might be.  

 

Plain to see it in the context of your post, as it reads like anything above Bill's prices are artificially expensive.

[Bill125812]

I think I should butt in here 

 

Many of the cables out there are simple bought in commercial cable, throw a bit of techflex on it, call it their own brand and hey presto you can charge whatever you like    I certainly do that with my basic range. Buy in Van Damme or Canare ( have never hidden that fact ) and sell  it at a reasonable price.  I don’t see a problem with that, as it gives people a good cable at a reasonable price

 

BUT   My boutique cables are built from the ground up. Buying pure copper or silver wire. Treading them through tubing, covering them in copper foil.  Nothing but the plug bought from a cable co.  And I can still charge a reasonable price.  Yes I do make some dollars on these cables.  Enough to feed my family I suppose, but I work long hours to do so.    
 

The reality is that many companies rip people off I’m sad to say.   I do this because I like to build cables.  Yes orders may take some time to get to you, as I can only do this on weekends and nights.   But the joy people get out of them and the messages of thanks I get are just a joy 
 

I suppose what I’m saying is that price only is Not what you should look at.  Read reviews.   Make the judgement yourself.  
 

Expensive  cable may not sound better.   Some just like to say that have  a triple Kryo cable made on the left side of  Silicon Valley, dipped in nitrogen and blessed by the Dalai Lama  And costs 10k.    And good luck to them if they can afford it. But does it actually sound better. Mmmm 
 

 

End of rant 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Bill125812

[scuzzii]

2 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

I think I should butt in here 

 

Many of the cables out there are simple bought in commercial cable, throw a bit of techflex on it, call it their own brand and hey presto you can charge whatever you like    I certainly do that with my basic range. Buy in Van Damme or Canare ( have never hidden that fact ) and sell  it at a reasonable price.  I don’t see a problem with that, as it gives people a good cable at a reasonable price

 

BUT   My boutique cables are built from the ground up. Buying pure copper or silver wire. Treading them through tubing, covering them in copper foil.  Nothing but the plug bought from a cable co.  And I can still charge a reasonable price.  Yes I do make some dollars on these cables.  Enough to feed my family I suppose, but I work long hours to do so.    
 

The reality is that many companies rip people off I’m sad to say.   I do this because I like to build cables.  Yes orders may take some time to get to you, as I can only do this on weekends and nights.   But the joy people get out of then and the messages of thanks I get are just a joy 
 

I suppose what I’m saying is that price only is Not what you should look at.  Read reviews.   Make the judgement yourself.  
 

Expensive  cable may not sound better.   Some just like to say that have  a triple Kryo cable made on the left side of  Silicon Valley, dipped in nitrogen and blessed by the Dalai Lama  And costs 10k.    And good luck to them if they can afford it. But does it actually sound better. Mmmm 
 

 

End of rant 

 

very much enjoying your cables, Bill.  And appreciative of the fact you could justifiably charge more, but chose to be a community member here..

[Bill125812]

Just now, scuzzii said:

very much enjoying your cables, Bill.  And appreciative of the fact you could justifiably charge more, but chose to be a community member here..

Isn’t that what SNA is supposed to be about 

[scuzzii]

Just now, Bill125812 said:

Isn’t that what SNA is supposed to be about 

yes, it is.

[Ray H]

9 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

Isn’t that what SNA is supposed to be about 

You had me at “supposed”......
 

You make me want to buy your cables.......

Edited October 13, 2020 by Ray H

[THOMO]

It seems to me that a lot of the expensive cables are made to sound deliberately different from the norm.Which some people with some systems will conclude is better.The best example of that I have heard is Jorma Prime .The XLR interconnects retail at about $13000 a set.They sound very weird.Almost like something is out of phase and perhaps it is !Very strange stuff happens to the imaging with that cable which I guess some people might like.

Another cable with specific type of sound is Antipodes Reference .That is by no means a bad cable but it is nothing like neutral.Also the Accuphase Super Refined which is an excellent cable in my opinion and one that is relatively affordable has a typical "Accuphase" house sound.If you have owned Accuphase products in the past you will identify that straight away.

 

[Grizaudio]

Cables absolutely change they way your system can sound. Digital or Analog. 

But as always, its highly subjective and you need to set your own limits.

 

Most of my cable cores come from Belden, Mogami, Canare, Koltz etc. 

They sound great to me, and are good enough for the best recording studios.  

I also have many DIY versions.

 

Without poking the bear, I also dislike silver interconnects. 

 

Look at the end of the day, so many elements impact system synergy.

Playing with cables is just another weapon to exploit. 

 

There are so many elements that come into play when matching cables to hardware:

- Impedance matching

- Shielded vs non shielded 

- Length 

- Termination quality & type. I.e. crimp, solder, compression, etc 

- System tonality

- System resolution

- Your mix of hardware

- System/ In Room frequency response

 

IMO, a cable simply acts as a conductor of signal and antenna for noise.

Switching cables just balances/manipulates that ratio. 

 

DSP (can) in many cases, make cable swapping irrelevant.  

Edited October 13, 2020 by musicbee

[davewantsmoore]

17 hours ago, Cloth Ears said:

I bought some of Bill's cables - are you saying they're no good because they are not in the $200 range?

No.  Bill is a very charitable fella   

 

It was just a ballpark number.... hopefully you saw the point I was trying to make.

[Cloth Ears]

25 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

No.  Bill is a very charitable fella   

 

It was just a ballpark number.... hopefully you saw the point I was trying to make.

I did, but someone else was trying to make the same point with a percentage figure. All are good points, but probably shouldn't be mutually exclusive. Unfortunately, typing (emails, posts, tweets) are such a bad form of communication that differences appear where there are none...

 

Peace (until the next time, of course )

[Spikey699]

I have a bit of a Harvey Twoface opinion on the matter.
Science and reason part of my brain: No, as long as you don't buy $2 shite from China, you'll be fine. And use balanced where needed and unbalanced where needed for analog, match Ohms for digital, clock correctly etc etc.

Audiophile woo part of my brain: Gold connectors! Shiny cables! Oxygenised copper!

So I tend to get quality cables where I can, and where I feel there's a benefit. I don't spend bank on cables for my old analog synths with unbalanced TS connections, though.

[aussievintage]

9 minutes ago, Spikey699 said:

Audiophile woo part of my brain: Gold connectors! Shiny cables! Oxygenised copper!

So I tend to get quality cables where I can, and where I feel there's a benefit.

 

It's as good a reason as any.  But, don't you mean Oxygen-free copper? 

[rantan]

Just now, aussievintage said:

But, don't you mean Oxygen-free copper? 

That raised a flag in my head also, but I just assumed that it was a simple error which we all make from time to time.

[aussievintage]

Just now, rantan said:

That raised a flag in my head also, but I just assumed that it was a simple error which we all make from time to time.

OK, apologies if I sounded picky.  Hard to sound light-hearted in text.

[rantan]

2 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

OK, apologies if I sounded picky.  Hard to sound light-hearted in text.

All good mate. I was making light of it as  well.

[Satanica]

On 13/10/2020 at 4:15 PM, Bill125812 said:

Expensive  cable may not sound better. Some just like to say that have a triple Kryo cable made on the left side of  Silicon Valley, dipped in nitrogen and blessed by the Dalai Lama  And costs 10k.    And good luck to them if they can afford it. But does it actually sound better. Mmmm

End of rant

Careful words like this might be considered Lampooning in these parts.

 

Ahem, I recently tried to get my old man to upgrade to what I use which are these: https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-x-rca-plugs-to-2-x-rca-plugs-1-5m/p/WQ7226 (Jaycar Concord $21.95) as his current as cheap as they come interconnects have gone rusty on the connectors.

He refused, citing that they are too expensive!

Edited October 14, 2020 by Satanica

[aussievintage]

2 minutes ago, Satanica said:

Ahem, I tried to get my old man to upgrade to what I use which are these: https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-x-rca-plugs-to-2-x-rca-plugs-1-5m/p/WQ7226

Thats are a fairly solid cheap cable.  Not a bad choice to upgrade from the bottom end stuff.

[Blueoris]

You can get better quality on interconnects in the $100 - $250 price, and I am happy to pay for quality in that price range.

 

I used to have a First Watt J2, and that amplifier took down so many ideas and expectations I had about expensive components in sound quality: The J2 sounded perfect to me, connected to a pair of picky speakers, with the cheapest cables I had.