Are expensive interconnects really worth the extra bucks?

[muon*]

I went from quality silver clad copper coax IC's to Lenehan RibbonTek IC's (Mike's original series) and the difference between them was audibly noticeable and all for the better in every area of the sound.

 

I purchased used, but I think they retailed for over $300 a pair when they were available.

 

Edit: I once tried Aurealis silver Litz IC's in my system and they ware also very audibly better in every way, unfortunately I didn't have the budget to keep them in my system at the time.

 

So best I have personally had in my system are the Lenehan ones and those Aurealis Litz ones.

 

I'd say the Aurealis litz (Dragons) were definitely better, and different also.

 

Mike has released newer series since these RibbonTek ones, and Aurealis have made changes too since the first ones I tried that time, and have a silver litz/copper litz IC and possibly a copper litz variety, and another IC that is said to perform very well.

Edited October 12, 2020 by muon*

[RankStranger]

If you can, find a local retailer that will let you buy some cable to try so that you can see if they make a difference in your system with the agreement that you can return them for a refund if they don’t (suggest already open demo cables so they don’t try to hit you with a “restocking fee”). You’ll be able to tell in a weekend

 

If you can’t, grab a few secondhand out of the classifieds and you can likely resell them for little or no loss if you’re unconvinced.

 

Have fun  

[Ittaku]

2 hours ago, BrownMagic said:

In my opinion 10% of the total cost of the system should be allotted for cabling and isolation and power. How you spend it is up to you.

So you're recommending I spent $20k on cables, and therefore sacrificed it on my electronics and say bought a Reference 160S stereo amp instead of my Ref 250SE monoblocks and it would have sounded better with the extra $19,000 worth of wire. Uh huh, sure...

[BrownMagic]

6 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

So you're recommending I spent $20k on cables, and therefore sacrificed it on my electronics and say bought a Reference 160S stereo amp instead of my Ref 250SE monoblocks and it would have sounded better with the extra $19,000 worth of wire. Uh huh, sure...

I suggested that the OP spend 10% on non core which is not your front end and speakers. I did not say you need to spend 10% on just cables. I have mentioned cabling, isolation, power etc. Also the OP is obviously not playing at the same level as your so it would be helpful to be objective here. You have a great rig btw. Cheers

Edited October 12, 2020 by BrownMagic

[Hawk66]

Thanks for all the comments!  This forum is such a great vehicle for getting a good dose of diverse and mixed responses, which is exactly what I was after.  As  a result I have now been introduced to Bill from QLD who is making me some boutique cables that are not going to result in me having to mortgage the house.   Buying from the member network and from Aussie sellers is so satisfying.  Thanks once again for all the passionate comments.

[pete_mac]

21 hours ago, rantan said:

Definitely yes, when I first plugged n my Aurealis Dragon R1 IC cable, which was on a trial/loan basis from Geoff.

 

Unsurprisingly, it never made the return journey to Brisbane. Payment was made the next day, as it was never going to take even a few days to determine the huge improvement, let alone two or three weeks.

 

Some people  may call it expensive but I will own it alll my life so it's actually cheap in the long run. It is now sold out so I am pleased I got it when I could and IMO, $350 was a stonking bargain.

 

Yep, I had the same 'moment' with the Aurealis Dragon R1 interconnects. They will remain in my setup for a long, long time.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, davewantsmoore said:

I've always disagreed with this type of thinking.

I also disagree with anyone who quantifies this hobby into any kind of percentage brackets. 

[mfforever]

Without doubt, upgrading from the standard IC sometimes supplied with the product to a good Ic cable brings really noticeable improvement ( hey, I got unsold at my local Hifi store to a Van Den Hull First Ultimate cable and I've never been happier ....  if I could have got this second hand for $200 / $300 I would have been even happier still but I keep my stuff forever so it's fine) ..... but to introduce a sideline .........     getting the right speaker cables is a much more difficult and wilder ride IMO.

[lumholtzii]

1 hour ago, pete_mac said:

 

Yep, I had the same 'moment' with the Aurealis Dragon R1 interconnects. They will remain in my setup for a long, long time.

 

And the same here until very recently.  And then I borrowed a set of cables from Garry Cawsey when I was at his workshop regarding one of his excellent power boxes.  And that was my undoing.   So now I've got a few sets & I'm very happy with them.  Although it did hurt the bank balance I think they are totally worth it in the scheme of things as they are total 'keepers'.  Not only that, bizarrely has in part sorted out some of my issues with room resonances .... I wasn't expecting that at all - double bonus

  

But perhaps the best metric of the improvement in the SQ is the response of the SO.  Previously the WAF for having the volume up a couple of notches was pretty dismissive.  Now its seems it can be quite cranked up and she'll be tapping her foot !   I didn't think I'd ever see that, and I didn't expect it to result from changing a couple of pairs of ICs.  .... BTW I haven't mentioned this observation to her, and i think that it is best that way 

 

The key point however has already been made.  Borrow whatever cables you can to try them out in your system - the best way to get their measure, and then figure out of you can justify the cost.

Edited October 12, 2020 by lumholtzii
typo

[agelessgoodguy]

1 hour ago, Hawk66 said:

Thanks for all the comments!  This forum is such a great vehicle for getting a good dose of diverse and mixed responses, which is exactly what I was after.  As  a result I have now been introduced to Bill from QLD who is making me some boutique cables that are not going to result in me having to mortgage the house.   Buying from the member network and from Aussie sellers is so satisfying.  Thanks once again for all the passionate comments.

So Hawk66 its now up to you to report back after you've been "BILLED" to let us all know in return your thoughts and improvements, good luck.

[075Congo]

I would give a big tick to bringing the Aurealis Audio R1 Dragon into an audio system...really excellent! Adding Geoff's speaker cables (mine are the LITZ 303) adds the icing to the cake. I have used mega-expensive interconnects (Shunyata; Nordost Valhalla) and am very happy to be at real-world function.

Cheers

[rantan]

^^^^^^

 

What he said

[davewantsmoore]

1 hour ago, BrownMagic said:

Dave - You need to take into context what I wrote in its entirety.

I did.

[muon*]

4 hours ago, 075Congo said:

I would give a big tick to bringing the Aurealis Audio R1 Dragon into an audio system...really excellent! Adding Geoff's speaker cables (mine are the LITZ 303) adds the icing to the cake. I have used mega-expensive interconnects (Shunyata; Nordost Valhalla) and am very happy to be at real-world function.

Cheers

Geoff's Litz speaker cables are excellent too! i agree.

 

Tried some back around the same time I tried the IC's, they were pretty special indeed.

[Cataclysm]

There are plenty of interesting opinions on this subject. Is anyone aware of a properly conducted blind test where unbiased listeners were consistently able to tell the difference between expensive cables and more modest offerings?

[Guest]

I’ve never been a big endorser of cables, but I have spent money on them. The only time I practically did a blind test was the time I had someone come over with a Chord Hugo 2 for me to try. Being that that DAC is fussy with cable connectors, I had to use my 2qutes VDH cable on the hugo2 and put a wire world cable ($600ish) on my 2qute. I had been listening to the 2 qute with that VDH cable ($500) for two years, so I was familiar with it. Anyway, did the AB’s with the 2 DAC’s and he went home after with the Hugo. For some reason, I didn’t put my VDH cable back on my 2qute, and the wireWorld stayed on for 2 weeks, I simply, forgot about it.  One night, 2 weeks later, I played my favorite Tesseract album, an album I’ve heard on my system hundreds of times, no exaggeration (first time in that 2 week period). It wasn’t sounding right at all, terrible actually. So I went all through my pre-pro’s audio settings, and everything was fine there, listened a while longer, yeah nah, something a miss. Got out of bed, looked around and noticed a different cable hanging out of my DAC (it’s up high so it’s not that I see it daily) so I changed it out with its original VDH and it was back to normal. So you can say that was a blind test, I hadn’t noticed a difference with any other album until that one, but it was enough of a difference for me to get annoyed that something wasn’t right. 
This is one reason why you need reference points when system testing. 

[MrBurns84]

On 11/10/2020 at 3:55 PM, aussievintage said:

I would use better quality cables, looking for benefits like better shielding, lower capacitance/resistance, general robustness, and even looks.  You can get that cheaper than $250.

Agreed in that order, shielding, low capacitance for long runs, material (silver/copper), build quality and then last - look/bling factor.  I find it very hard to personally justify the cost of cables over a couple of hundred dollars, but in this hobby, how deep is your wallet to chase that last 5% of performance.....

[muon*]

In my system and others I found moving to quality IC's and speaker cables transforming to a level that would easily be picked in a BT.

 

Most accept that IC's and SC's can make a significant difference.

 

But then some people hear no difference in sound with amps and DAC's/Players, so YMMV.

[aussievintage]

19 minutes ago, muon* said:

In my system and others I found moving to quality IC's and speaker cables transforming to a level that would easily be picked in a BT.

 

I know  that even asking is frowned on  in most forums, but it would be a very good thing if someone like you, who experiences such obvious and large changes, would actually do and document such a DBT.  That's what someone was asking a few posts back.  Surely someone somewhere has done it and posted about it?

[gemini07]

Personally I do not need any form of blind testing to know what I like.

 

As to whether 'expensive' interconnects 'are really worth the extra bucks', that question is one for the prospective buyer, as is the case with any discretionary purchase. Fortunately Aurealis allows trying before buying, so an answer is easily obtained without risk.

 

As to my own preferences, I found the R1 Dragon ICs (and the Lenehan FoilFlex SCs) made a substantial and pleasing contribution to the sound quality of my system. 

[rantan]

3 minutes ago, gemini07 said:

Personally I do not need any form of blind testing to know what I like.

 

As to whether 'expensive' interconnects 'are really worth the extra bucks', that question is one for the prospective buyer, as is the case with any discretionary purchase. Fortunately Aurealis allows trying before buying, so an answer is easily obtained without risk.

Exactly.

Any in home trial will give people the answers they need and speaking for myself alone, I am not sufficiently insecure as to require a DBT.

 

The actual title of this thread implies the question as to whether better cables are worthwhile and /or good value to the individual purchaser.

I personally know people who have tried better quality cables in their own system and found that the expenditure was not necessary or sufficiently beneficial, in their situation.

Any example in my own situation was when I tried a few power cables that were heavily promoted and found no improvement whatsoever in my system, whereas the speaker and IC cables which I now own, and use, were a revelation and an easy choice.

 

This isn't life and death people, it is about enjoyment.

[muon*]

2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

I know  that even asking is frowned on  in most forums, but it would be a very good thing if someone like you, who experiences such obvious and large changes, would actually do and document such a DBT.  That's what someone was asking a few posts back.  Surely someone somewhere has done it and posted about it?

Given I have no compulsion to convert someone that is skeptical on such matters there is little to motivate me to do something that I see as a waste of my time. Those tests are not simple if you want to do it correctly also, and there are some like myself that see too many flaws in such testing mythologies when pertaining to audio.

 

Such tests are for those that take large stock in those methods and are undecided.

[Guest]

I buy good cables because I like nicer things. We all know how crap those red white and yellow cables that come with DVD. Players look. The cables I have are around the $500 mark and look lovely coming out of my gear, and they apparently do something also as I mentioned above. 
this is for audio only, not power. I just use the basic isoteck ones for that, and simply because in my situation, they cable manage better. 

[Cloth Ears]

On 11/10/2020 at 8:22 PM, Bill125812 said:

After spending well over a decade of making cables and trialing expensive cables, in my experience there is a vast difference in sound between cables.  So the answer is yes.    Many nights blind testing cables has 100% confirmed that.  But what I will say, is that price isn’t always the defining parameter.   
 

Fortunately I’ve pulled apart many commercial cables to find out that the cable they use isn’t what they claim or isn’t worth any where near the price they charge.

 

The reason I started making my Affordable yet high quality cables. 

22 hours ago, davewantsmoore said:

I've always disagreed with this type of thinking.

 

If someone has $500 amp and $500 speakers .... I'd say, use a good quality cable.... they cost about $200.

If someone has $2000 amp and $10000 spekers .... I'd say use a good quality cable.... they cost about $200

If someone remotgaged their house to buy speakers .... I'd say use a good quality cable.....   

I bought some of Bill's cables - are you saying they're no good because they are not in the $200 range?

 

[Cloth Ears]

.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Cloth Ears
double post