Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 2, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, stereo coffee said: And so should every manufacturer, if we are to have audio products properly meeting the challenge of music reproduction. Back full circle. so can you answer my question: “What is a “component”? The internal wiring? The case, the screws that hold drivers into baffles? The individual tree that speaker is made from” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) For other manufacturers building other products, certainly all those components you list. But the meaning of component is much, much wider , as example we do not find screws into baffles or individual tree's that the speaker is made from, in a CD player. A list of components with the focus I apply, would include all semiconductors, meaning with the components I use, n channel and p channel mosfets , triacs, thyristors, voltage references, voltage regulators, current regulators, operational amplifiers, pnp transistors, and principally resistive optocouplers. However your chosen list reminds me of the Eric Johnson interview where indeed such components have interaction with audio presentation, so must be considered by such product manufacturers: Edited October 2, 2020 by stereo coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 2, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 2, 2020 14 hours ago, stereo coffee said: Inferring it is essential for manufacturers to listen to changes made to audio presentation, by every single component in a design. Trying to stay on topic, the inference here is that the reason (or at least a significant reason) why a good product goes backwards in later models is because manufacturers stopped listening. Do you have any examples of this (a good product that was initially designed by listening and which then went bad because the designers/manufacturers stopped listening) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Yes, Quad ESL57 replaced by Quad 63, certainly not a dramatic move backwards, but when a product ( ESL57 )has recognition as having the best midrange reproduction, it would appear incumbent on the manufacturer to either replicate or indeed improve that ability. Now whether Quad stopped listening, or indeed started listening, could be hotly debated, but they were never renowned as a manufacturer for listening to products, which IMO would have assisted them greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 2, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 minute ago, stereo coffee said: Now whether Quad stopped listening, or indeed started listening, could be hotly debated, but they were never renowned as a manufacturer for listening to products, which IMO would have assisted them greatly. So it’s pure conjecture that they went downhill because they stopped listening. What about Harbeth? They clearly put great store in measurements and no one is suggesting they are going backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereo coffee Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, sir sanders zingmore said: So it’s pure conjecture that they went downhill because they stopped listening. What about Harbeth? They clearly put great store in measurements and no one is suggesting they are going backwards So are you inferring Quad accepted poorer measurements, and proceeded regardless with the subsequent ESL63 product ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 2, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, stereo coffee said: So are you inferring Quad accepted poorer measurements, and proceeded regardless with the subsequent ESL63 product ? Actually, I’m not inferring anything about Quad. I believe that was you. Edited October 2, 2020 by sir sanders zingmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JukKluk2 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Time to take a step back, a deep breath, and cool your heels fellas. You're both beginning to dig yourselves into entrenched positions and are blinded by your own sandbags. Nothing good can come from that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripitaka Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 This topic died on page one, just tumbleweeds blowing through now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 3, 2020 Fair point. sorry folks. I’ll try to stay on topic. I reckon Sonus Faber has gone backwards since Franco Serblin left. That’s just my opinion - I know many others disagree. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I reckon Sonus Faber has gone backwards since Franco Serblin left. That’s just my opinion - I know many others disagree. Emphatically agree and I cannot see why anybody would claim otherwise. The company and its products just lost that dash of magic that once made their products unique. They are still good but not special anymore. Of course this is merely, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 3, 2020 29 minutes ago, rantan said: I cannot see why anybody would claim otherwise. I can see why, they might simply prefer the new sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantan Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Anyway, after my gentle admonishment, I will say that many of the once iconic Japanese brands fit the title of this thread perfectly. Notably Sony and Pioneer. Edited October 3, 2020 by rantan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willco Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 48 minutes ago, rantan said: Emphatically agree and I cannot see why anybody would claim otherwise. The company and its products just lost that dash of magic that once made their products unique. They are still good but not special anymore. Of course this is merely, IMO. Agree!-- Franco took the magic to the grave with him--The current crop of SF's are shadows of the "golden era" I wouldn't recommend any of them sadly. Willco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I have to admit I haven't been into hifi long enough to have good examples, but as a newcomer I'm always wary of some of this being more an old guard hifi preening thing - "I have the old model which is better and you can't buy it anymore so yay me". That sort of thing. People dream up all sorts of mythology to explain why what they have is the best version. The classic example I always hear about (but have never heard in person) is the Pioneer A400 vs A400X. The way it's written about I wonder whether it was just the good will towards Pioneer drying up with the in crowd - like they could entertain the notion of one 'giant killer' from a midfi Japanese company, but no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JukKluk2 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 hours ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I reckon Sonus Faber has gone backwards since Franco Serblin left. That’s just my opinion - I know many others disagree. To be fair, he didn't just leave Sonus Faber did he? I'm sure that if they could they would have him back in a flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said: To be fair, he didn't just leave Sonus Faber did he? I don't know the story there to be honest? 8 minutes ago, JukKluk2 said: I'm sure that if they could they would have him back in a flash. Yes, well I think we'd all be very happy (and more than a bit surprised) if he came back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JukKluk2 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, sir sanders zingmore said: I don't know the story there to be honest? Yes, well I think we'd all be very happy (and more than a bit surprised) if he came back Er.....actually, he passed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, JukKluk2 said: Er.....actually, he passed away. er… yes I know that ..hence my attempted humour But that's not the reason he left SF… he died in 2013, seven years after leaving SF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JukKluk2 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, sir sanders zingmore said: er… yes I know that ..hence my attempted humour But that's not the reason he left SF… he died in 2013, seven years after leaving SF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer sir sanders zingmore Posted October 3, 2020 Volunteer Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, JukKluk2 said: I realise I misunderstood your comment. I interpreted "he didn't just leave SF" to mean that there was a story behind his leaving. I see now you meant he didn't just leave SF, he left everyone Silly me, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Back to the opening topic - the brief period where Audio Research moved away from valve gear and made solid state only equipment. Even they realised what they were getting into and dropped their "high definition" moniker and just called them "definition." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JukKluk2 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 29 minutes ago, Ittaku said: Back to the opening topic - the brief period where Audio Research moved away from valve gear and made solid state only equipment. Even they realised what they were getting into and dropped their "high definition" moniker and just called them "definition." Perhaps they thought that, at that stage, Audio Research was hi-end by definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Martello Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I’ve heard (and read) that the BelCanto 2.5DAC sounds better balanced than the 3.5 which Is newer and cost more. Can’t verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I came here to post about Sonus Faber but everyone beat me to it. Think that’s gonna stop me? I hated the direction they took after Serblin left. That said, I’m not really a fan of his eponymous designs either so maybe there was some beneficial editorial synergy going on there or something. I even had the dubious honour of defending my position to one of the SF execs after he popped into a comment thread on the Stereophile website where I was sh!t-talking a new design. Not my finest hour 49 minutes ago, Tony Martello said: I’ve heard (and read) that the BelCanto 2.5DAC sounds better balanced than the 3.5 which Is newer and cost more. Can’t verify. I had one of them (2.5) that I ran single-ended and it sounded great! I never ran it balanced but I wish I had tried it now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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