Bluesound Node 2 with External DAC (vs. 2i)

[kdmay]

I am considering purchasing an original Node 2 (not the 2i) for my A system. Currently have the 2i in my B system and love it.

 

I would pair it with an outboard DAC connected via Coaxial and connected via LAN.

 

I have read that the improvements of the 2i over the 2 are a better WiFi chipset (less noise?) and better DAC.

 

If I am not using either for my setup and the Node is purely a streamer and Tidal MQA “unpacker”, would it be academic whether I get the 2i or 2? Hoping to save some $ in the process here.

 

BTW - I am using an Arcam rDAC with a DIY external power supply (in the process of being built). This doesn’t have MQA capability to my knowledge but I plan to let the Node 2 do all the heavy lifting here and pass an unpacked 24/96 file to the rDAC.

 

Cheers

[08Boss302]

Functionally I suspect the Node 2 and the Node 2i are the same, its just the DAC chip and maybe some internal wiring that changed. (I own the 2i)

That said, I suspect the Node 2 will pass through upto 192khz via its Coax and Toslink outputs and will unpack MQA in full via its RCA outs only - same as Node 2i.

 

If you leave the MQA toggle to its default setting in the Node you will get 24/96 to any DAC when passed on via coax/toslink.

 

You will not benefit in the 2i if using an external DAC as both the Node 2 and Node 2i do the same thing.  If you wanted full MQA unpack from the Node then I"d suggest looking at the 2i as its DAC was improved from the 2.  Not sure what chip is the in 2 but the 2i has a Burr Brown chip.

 

As a side note, I am not familiar with spec etc of the rDac but if Qobuz arrives to Australia later this year, you will be able to push through full HiRes from Qobuz to any external DAC from the Bluesound. 

This will potentially be a good thing for the Australian streaming market and open up to those who do not have MQA compatable streamer or want a DAC that is not MQA compatible. Further more, it doesnt limit you to USB audio in either.

Also noteworthy, the Bluesound will happily pass full MQA on via coax or toslink but there are very few DACs that accept MQA via all inputs, the Mytek range does as do some Matrix but that limits you to those brands. 

Qobuz is upto 192khz and if you have a DAC that will accept that then the DAC market is wide open with Qobuz.  It will just depend on if you like the Qobuz UI etc over Tidal or have a preference to a particular library and sound that each may produce.

 

cheers. 

[scuzzii]

I have the Node 2 - one difference is Apple Music isn't compatible with Node 2, but I believe it is with Node 2i

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

Have read some members saying the node 2i is an improvement Over the 2 as a digital transport too, what that equates to value wise I’m not entirely sure.

 

you can’t go wrong with either IMO

Edited September 29, 2020 by Hi-Fi Whipped

[kdmay]

Thanks guys

 

Definitely will research Qobuz.

 

My temptation is to just get another 2i but then my rDAC might become redundant.

 

I might try my FLAC files first, ABing the 2i DAC to the Arcam DAC and check out the results. I’m pretty impressed with the 2i thus far, but haven’t had a chance to test in my A system which is where all the detail etc will be revealed.

 

So far though Tool’s Fear Innoculum via 24/96 FLAC on the B system is pretty bloody good!

 

To be continued.....

[kdmay]

Bit of an update to this topic.....

 

So I ended up buying another Node 2i! With the $100 cash back offer, I couldn't refuse. Such a cool product with a great user interface.

 

But what was more interesting was my studio (reference) system AB test of the Node DAC vs my Arcam rDAC I did earlier this week.

 

The Arcam sounded just a little better. It's not to say the Node DAC didn't sound great, it does and without a true AB test, you would be very happy. But with both the Digital Coax connected to the rDAC and the RCAs of both connected to my Prima Luna preamp, I could quickly toggle sources. The rDAC was probably 2-3db louder, so I had to compensate for output level so as to not fall into the trap of louder sounds better by default, but the rDAC had a bigger sound stage, better imaging and the bass was slightly bigger and a little tighter.

 

But what I found most interesting was the MQA test. The above tests were initially done with FLAC files, so a "fair fight". I thought with MQA, the Node would shine, given it's able to perform the 3 MQA unfold processes. But by not selecting the MQA enabled DAC option, effectively the Node in the case of the Coax output was only performing the first unfold, which as I understand (but would like some opinions on this), is unfolding (akin to unzipping) the file to 24/96, then allowing the rDAC to do the necessary conversion. Whereas the Node was doing the 2nd and 3rd MQA unfold process, which as I understand is applying to proprietary MQA filters and upscaling algorithms to (what I believe but not sure) is 24/192.

 

But in all cases, even the streamed MQA files sounded better via the rDAC. Even CD quality streamed via Tidal still sounded better via the rDAC.

 

Now this has me wondering, is the whole "MQA enabled DAC" thing simply marketing? Would a very high quality DAC (not MQA enabled) connected via Coax, going to sound "better" even though it's not getting the full MQA treatment. Or is this a matter of opinion as to whether the MQA filter/upscaling is perceived as better.

 

At least in my experience I preferred the outboard DAC, and I wouldn't call the rDAC a very "high quality" DAC (even though I have been very happy with it thus far for what I paid).

 

Interesting in dispelling some myths here or simply clarifying my understanding of how this MQA thing works.

 

But either way, having a Node is both my studio and living room has made be a happy camper.

 

[Guest]

Funny, I don’t recall the 2-2i had an improved DAC. 
 

Edit, I’m correct, the 2 and 2i share the same DAC. The 2i only improved its Wi-if, 2 way Bluetooth and apple airplay. I remember upgrading only for its Bluetooth, which I never got working anyway. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Sime

[kdmay]

8 hours ago, Sime said:

Funny, I don’t recall the 2-2i had an improved DAC. 
 

Edit, I’m correct, the 2 and 2i share the same DAC. The 2i only improved its Wi-if, 2 way Bluetooth and apple airplay. I remember upgrading only for its Bluetooth, which I never got working anyway. 

To clarify, my above comparison had nothing to do with the 2 vs 2i DAC, I have extended the conversion to include 2i DAC vs external DAC

[Guest]

On 30/09/2020 at 9:14 AM, 08Boss302 said:

its just the DAC chip and maybe some internal wiring that changed. (I own the 2i)

And to clarify myself, I’m correcting others mis-information;)

[kdmay]

7 minutes ago, Sime said:

And to clarify myself, I’m correcting others mis-information;)

Ahh right!

 

Yeah I thought it was just the WiFi chipset and layout that changed from 2 to 2i

[08Boss302]

1 hour ago, Sime said:

And to clarify myself, I’m correcting others mis-information;)

yes, my apologies, an error on behalf, not intended mis-information

The improvements made did not include a new DAC chip but rather a few updates which were aimed at improving things including the sound.   I never owned the 2 and when researching read about the improvments to which most reviews suggested a sound improvment, my memory failed me when posting above and had my wires crossed.....

 

Most recently, the 2i now supports Amazon Music HD and Ultra HD.

Sound quality has been addressed within the design, just look at the internal isolation between the compact wireless technologies and the basic audio kit for proof of that. Speaking of wireless, that’s dual band (802.11ac) and that comes with Bluetooth 5.0 aptX HD, via Qualcomm CSR8675 chip, that runs both ways so you can receive a signal for Bluetooth headphone use, for example.  AirPlay 2 is also included which will aid multi-room set-up, no end. AirPlay 2 also gives you more options for control, including using Siri voice assistance. Amazon and Google Assistant can also be used in this respect too. By grouping a Node 2i with older Bluesound Players in the BluOS App, you can also add AirPlay 2 compatibility to your entire BluOS system.

 

 

@kdmayWith regard to your experiement and node vs the rDAC.  One of the points of contention is that the file is compressed to be a standard FLAC size file and many feel that we dont need the file size compressed as internet is capable of sending full HiRes files etc.  Also, many do not like the filter software used to unpack the "audio origami"  or unzip as you stated. 

From the Bluesound website..

 

When streaming MQA content there are 3 unfolds which must occur to receive fully rendered 192khz/24-bit MQA. The first of these unfolds is handled by the BluOS app and will output up to 96khz/24-bit audio. The next 2 unfolds are handled by the internal DAC of the Node to provide 192khz/24-bit audio. If you have an MQA certified DAC connected to your Node 2i, you can enable this MQA External DAC option to have MQA content pass through the Node 2i untouched and allow your external DAC to handle all 3 of these unfolds. For more information on how MQA works, please see the web page below.

https://www.mqa.co.uk/how-it-works

Edited October 11, 2020 by 08Boss302
.

[kdmay]

Correct - this was where I was getting my information and why I concluded that the Node was outputting a 24/96 “unfolded” file to the rDAC.

 

It’s kinda comforting knowing that you’re not a the mercy of the whole “MQA enabled” thing. If I see a nice DAC that I think might be a step up in terms of sound quality to the rDAC and it has a good reputable up scaling feature (e.g. Chord, Audio Research), I won’t have any hesitation in trying one out.

 

But for the time being, the Node streamer with the rDAC doing the conversion duties is sounding absolutely killer in my A system. In my B system, the Node is doing all the duties and sounds great in a different way (totally different setup, room etc).

 

First world problems for sure.....

[08Boss302]

haha, yes, I have used my node 2i streaming to my Oppo 205 and or Denafrips Ares II via toslink and coax respectively.  The Denafrips has lights which tell me the rate and the Oppo shows it on the TV screen.

If you leave the MQA external DAC toggle to off in the Node settings you will get 88.2 or 96 depending on the MQA track to any external DAC as the node does the first unpack for you and simply passes that file on.

Handy to know it does that to any DAC you may want to use with it, and you can always still run RCA out of the node to your amp (different input) and use full MQA if you wish.

 

I can say that Quoboz via the Node will give full pass through to any external DAC. So if a file is is 96 or 192 you will get that full pass through so with some luck sometime soon we will have that HiRes option at our choice also to compete with Tidal locally on FLAC and HiRes streaming....

 

 

[kdmay]

13 minutes ago, 08Boss302 said:

haha, yes, I have used my node 2i streaming to my Oppo 205 and or Denafrips Ares II via toslink and coax respectively.  The Denafrips has lights which tell me the rate and the Oppo shows it on the TV screen.

If you leave the MQA external DAC toggle to off in the Node settings you will get 88.2 or 96 depending on the MQA track to any external DAC as the node does the first unpack for you and simply passes that file on.

Handy to know it does that to any DAC you may want to use with it, and you can always still run RCA out of the node to your amp (different input) and use full MQA if you wish.

 

I can say that Quoboz via the Node will give full pass through to any external DAC. So if a file is is 96 or 192 you will get that full pass through so with some luck sometime soon we will have that HiRes option at our choice also to compete with Tidal locally on FLAC and HiRes streaming....

 

 

 

Thanks mate!

 

Yes, I am looking forward to Quoboz, hopefully they have enough content to compete with Tidal. Being able to stream a full Hi Res / FLAC file must be better than a folding/unfolding process. My test of the FLAC files I have does reveal that they have better detail etc than the MQA files.

 

And yes, this is how I have it setup, with the RCAs of both the Node and the rDAC going to my Prima Luna Preamp, so I can quickly toggle between the DACs and use the MQA filters / conversion if I choose to.