Dominic Sith Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Hi Everyone, Long time reader, first time caller here. Very new to the audiophile game but very much appreciate the knowledge and advice being shared here. I have been on a quest to get out of the sonos ecosystem into something more serious. Took the plunge earlier this year with a Rotel A12 and B&W 606, great pairing but was getting the upgrade itch and took the plunge on a pair of S400s, was looking to get a fuller sound with more bass extension. Listen to a lot of electronica, so was trying to fulfill the bass needs of that particular music. I've actually been breaking in the S400 for the last few weeks with my Rotel amp, but can't quite say that it's leaps and bounds better than my old setup. They definitely go deeper but the bass doesn't seem as tight and controlled. Debating whether to try investing in a different amp to give the S400s another chance or send them back to Mads and perhaps go with a different solution all together. Do you guys think that trying it with another/higher quality amp is going to change my mind on the S400s? So far have been looking at Hegel H120, NAD M10, things in that price range. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoHo Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 According to the specs the Buchardts have more bass extension than the B&Ws. Problem is if your room is "difficult" bass-wise or they are just in a less than optimum position that extra bass may sound bloated or muddy. Before you make any more purchases you really should try to move the speakers to a few different positions to try to find the best spot for them. Less likely is that the amp is running out of steam due to the new speakers being harder to drive. By all means try a different amp, is it possible to loan one from somewhere? Or are you just desperate to spend more money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydrology Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 The Rotel is probably letting the speakers down. Try something like a Hegel H120 - assuming you can borrow one to try. A Creek Evo 100A would also have good control and poise with the S400s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMikeOz Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dominic Sith said: Hi Everyone, Long time reader, first time caller here. Very new to the audiophile game but very much appreciate the knowledge and advice being shared here. I have been on a quest to get out of the sonos ecosystem into something more serious. Took the plunge earlier this year with a Rotel A12 and B&W 606, great pairing but was getting the upgrade itch and took the plunge on a pair of S400s, was looking to get a fuller sound with more bass extension. Listen to a lot of electronica, so was trying to fulfill the bass needs of that particular music. I've actually been breaking in the S400 for the last few weeks with my Rotel amp, but can't quite say that it's leaps and bounds better than my old setup. They definitely go deeper but the bass doesn't seem as tight and controlled. Debating whether to try investing in a different amp to give the S400s another chance or send them back to Mads and perhaps go with a different solution all together. Do you guys think that trying it with another/higher quality amp is going to change my mind on the S400s? So far have been looking at Hegel H120, NAD M10, things in that price range. Cheers! Dom, I had a pair of S400s and got the following information from Mads that might help you if he hasn’t already told you this: 1) very long break in time of 100 hours at least due to the stiffness of the driver. I found for the first 30-40 hours they sounded terrible to me. 2) they do need significant power - he mentioned 50-60wpc being on the ‘just enough’ side but said that wasn’t really enough to keep the bass under control with 90wpc or greater being ideal. Given the bass is what you are looking for this might be the issue I sold mine due to my love of tube amps and I found that even my 50wpc amp couldn’t get the best out of them. Edited September 29, 2020 by DrMikeOz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Sith Posted September 29, 2020 Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I have actually tried re-positioning and moving the entire setup to a different room entirely to see if the room was an issue but the story was much the same. I had noticed the issue more with "busy" music, not sure if that's a factor though. @DrMikeOz - yep, spot on. Mads told me the exact same about break in time, I've had them for close to a month now, so I should be past that initial break in phase. If you don't mind me asking, what had you tried your S400s paired with? What worked well and what didn't? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Dominic Sith said: I had noticed the issue more with "busy" music, not sure if that's a factor though. From 15 brands I tried so far Naim, Exposure and Primare had the best bass quality and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topman_Chief Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Looks like Buchardt have just released their own integrated amp. This should take your S400 close to the A500. Good intro price for current owners of S400 (1800 EUR down from 2500 EUR). https://www.buchardtaudio.com/shop/i150-integrated-amplifier-buchardt-family I doubt you'll do better with most other amps of similar price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownMagic Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) My friend who is a DJ after using the S400 moved to the A500. According to him the actives are in a different league to the S400. If there is a possibility to send the S400 and get the A500 then it would make sense. For the 2.5k in price difference, you get serious amplification, filters to change the sound according to your taste, room correction and streaming. Also from my experience, the rotel and b&W are probably not the best pairing. B&Ws are extremely clean sounding with super high resolution and Rotels are also similar and hence it is too much of the same kind which you seem to describe. Do you have a budget for this amp? Also what is the size of your room? Edited September 30, 2020 by BrownMagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic Sith Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 21 hours ago, BrownMagic said: My friend who is a DJ after using the S400 moved to the A500. According to him the actives are in a different league to the S400. If there is a possibility to send the S400 and get the A500 then it would make sense. For the 2.5k in price difference, you get serious amplification, filters to change the sound according to your taste, room correction and streaming. Also from my experience, the rotel and b&W are probably not the best pairing. B&Ws are extremely clean sounding with super high resolution and Rotels are also similar and hence it is too much of the same kind which you seem to describe. Do you have a budget for this amp? Also what is the size of your room? Yes I did consider that as well, although it looks they are all sold out now according to the Buchardt website. Interesting thoughts on the B&W and Rotel not being a good match, I always thought their pairing was safe given they fall under the same umbrella. My room is not very large, it's only a small apartment, about 5x3 meters. My budget was fairly flexible, I could probably justify spending about 3-4k on an amp, although if I could spend even less, that would be better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakerhoarder Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 For anyone reading this now, you need at least a good proper high current 120 watts per channel and very solid foundations (heavy stands nicely isolated) to tighten up the bass to get these sounding tight in the bass. They are near unbeatable bass wise for those size speaker, but they need at least 4 foot from the rear wall. As someone above stated, modern Naim gear is a **** hot match for this system. I heard it and it's got me saving for my end game system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimalfi Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Hey, I got my S400's partly to get away from the rear port of most bookshelves. My room wouldn't work with the speakers too far into it so I needed a solution and I'm really pleased with Buchardts. I'm running a Naim Nait 5si and get some great punch with my speakers 30-40cm off the wall. I have two louvred "plantation shutter" windows at 90 degrees to each other in one front corner and I notice that I can make the bass louder, but more loose, by angling the shutters towards or away from the speaker. I can tell when someone's messed with MY windows cos the sound changes. Like everyone said experiment with placement and your room, you may need to counterbalance placement with tuning if real life interferes with your setup. For anyone considering the Buchardts they are flexible on placement. One day I'll take them up to our large living room and see what they can do in optimal space! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimalfi Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 For anyone stumbling across this thread or searching Buchardt S400s I want to walk back my comments a little. I have played around over the week (lovin' lockdown) and with creative application of granite with concrete pavers and barstools I've got the S400s out from the back wall 3 feet. The difference is remarkable. Needless to say I am now searching speaker stands and preparing opening remarks for the upcoming debate with the significant other! I liked the S400s before don't get me wrong. But this is better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesla999 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Hi there.. I'm some 40 hours into the S400 Mk 2 break in and struggling with bloated bass on these units. Powered by an Audiolab 6000A which while limited in watts should be sufficient to drive these babies. Bass lines like the intro on Queen's Millionaire Waltz are mashed up with no definition on the notes. Have tried moving away from the back wall and also on stools temporarily but with no success. Is this pre- break-in sound or is the amp letting me down ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungbean66 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Hey Tesla, I think the only way you'll find out is by borrowing another amplifier. I have the 8300A and the bass is deep and tight but it is a more powerful amplifier. You could also have an issue with your room reinforcing certain frequencies in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Broadhurst Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I ran a Yamaha AS2100 (high current amp) with the Buchardts for a year and was a fantastic match. Also biggest upgrade for me was buying a pair of primacoutic recoil stabilizer pads to go between speakers and sand filled stands. Greatly improved tightness in the bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyW Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 A mate of mine runs his S400 with Schiit Bifrost 2, Schiit Saga pre and Schiit Vidar power amp. It's a pretty sweet combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spukee Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 I tried the S400 with an 80 watt Unison Research Primo, and the bass was admittedly a bit loose. Paired it with a 125 watt Parasound A23 and the bass tightened up quite a bit. Totally satisfied with the performance, to the point where I'm thinking of getting a MK2 (or at least would like to audition). Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesla999 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) Update on my comments in May. Eventually replaced the Buchardt S400 mk II with a pair of Revel M16’s and now much better suited to my room. Not as much bass volume which was boomy for me. Edited December 28, 2022 by tesla999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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