Help with speaker placement in living area

[AudioFool18]

Hi Everyone, yet another help with HT speaker setup question.

 

I am doing a reno which originally included a HT/Media room, but due to budget, that room will simply be a room at this stage. In the meantime I will be using the main living area for TV/Movies and would like to set it up as well as I can given the layout.

 

Given the layout, I figure I can got for  a 5.2.2 setup. I also understand from reading other threads that on wall speakers are generally desirable to in wall speakers.

The front (LCR) is fine, so my question(s) relate to the surround and overhead speakers.

Back in the old days both Dolby and DTS recommended that the surround speakers be about 90 degrees to you and above you towards the ceiling (1.8m+), and di or bi pole. I understand they no longer recommend the di/bipole anymore, but does the 1.8m+ still valid? Given the layout, I can't have the speakers 90 degrees, so they have to be behind me, on the wall near the celiing.

• So my first question is, if I'm putting up the surround speakers up towards the ceiling anyway, is there a point putting wall speakers? Or should they be in ceiling speakers?
• I have never had ceiling/atoms speakers, so on a setup like this, where do you have them? right above the listener, in front, or behind?

 

Here is the room layout. The proposed speaker locations is indicated in red.

 

TIA

 

 

[exitguy]

A read of this and associated references should give you all the info you need ...

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/

 

[petetherock]

Will you consider using the brick wall on the right side for the front three speakers and TV?

Having the current arrangement means that you'll get rather unequal frequency responses from your front left and right..

Very open on the left side.

And this will solve the side speaker mounting..

 

[AudioFool18]

5 hours ago, exitguy said:

A read of this and associated references should give you all the info you need ...

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/

 

I have had a read though and it has answered some of my questions.

- Dolby now recommends having the surround speakers  at the same height.

- Atom speakers goes slightly in front of you.

 

But this still leaves me with the same question. Do I have the surround speakers on the wall high up, which also means it's much narrower than the fronts. Or have ceiling speakers for the surrounds instead?

Essentially turning it from 5.1.2 to 3.1.4. There are many different configs on the Dolby site, including 3.1.2, but not 3.1.4. 

 

5 minutes ago, petetherock said:

Will you consider using the brick wall on the right side for the front three speakers and TV?

Having the current arrangement means that you'll get rather unequal frequency responses from your front left and right..

Very open on the left side.

And this will solve the side speaker mounting..

 

I had thought about this, but this would cause a few issues.

- The window would be blocked up by the TV. The room is already dark enough.

- The seating would need to be closer to the TV because I would need distance between the seating and the island

- I'm not sure if this would solve the surround speaker mounting problem, because in that configuration there would just be space behind me, so speakers can't be mounted, and I don't see where I can put the surround speakers on the floor.

I've not missing something, please let me know.

[petetherock]

Blocking window - great! Light control

Sitting nearer to the TV - great! You can get closer to the THX viewing angle

You can mount the FRONT HEIGHTS on the brick wall at the same distance apart as the front pair

The rears can be REAR HEIGHTS can be spread out a bit and if you Must mount them on the ceiling just point them at your main listening position.

 

Side surrounds can be run along the walls at the height of your ears when seated. 

[AudioFool18]

14 minutes ago, petetherock said:

You can mount the FRONT HEIGHTS on the brick wall at the same distance apart as the front pair

The rears can be REAR HEIGHTS can be spread out a bit and if you Must mount them on the ceiling just point them at your main listening position.

Are front and rear heights referring to speakers in the ceiling? Or are they referring to wall mounted speakers which are mounted higher up?

I've been told the ceiling speakers are the way to go, as the Atmos effects is well worth doing.

 

17 minutes ago, petetherock said:

Side surrounds can be run along the walls at the height of your ears when seated. 

It may not be obvious from the drawing, but if the room was turned that way, then the right hand side there is no wall, there is a pantry and fridge. So while the left surround can go on the wall at ear level, the right cannot.

I have tried to capture in in these new drawings.

 

[petetherock]

You can use a spot on the right before your fridge for a stand or wall mount surround

please read up on the nomenclature of speakers mate..

you’ll find the Heights are what you’re after rather than TOP positions unless you’re using in ceiling positions 

[AudioFool18]

5 hours ago, petetherock said:

You can use a spot on the right before your fridge for a stand or wall mount surround

please read up on the nomenclature of speakers mate..

you’ll find the Heights are what you’re after rather than TOP positions unless you’re using in ceiling positions 

The spot before the fridge is the door, so can't put speaker there.

Thanks to the naming convention, I think I can put my question more simply.

 

In my proposed 5.1.2 system, the surround speakers will be to be surround height speakers. Is that ok? To have surround height speakers? Or would having top/ceiling speakers be a better choice?

So 5.1.2 (with 2 surround height) or 3.1.4?

 

[petetherock]

If you can manage ceiling positions, that will be best. It will be the TOP MIDDLE Atmos position - do check the link in the second post in your thread..

Well, you could place your surround speaker on a stand and move it into position when you use it. Or just place it adjacent to your sofa on the right of it..

[AudioFool18]

15 hours ago, petetherock said:

If you can manage ceiling positions, that will be best. It will be the TOP MIDDLE Atmos position - do check the link in the second post in your thread..

 

I'm still trying to get my head about the ceiling/TOP speaker.

Presumably TOP MIDDLE is the overhead speakers roughly at the listening position.

Is there a TOP REAR or TOP SURROUND option for the back ceiling speakers? Or should that the Height speakers?

 

[petetherock]

Mate, maybe you can sit down and read the about the various speaker positions and terminology first.. it will really help your cause.. cheers

[AudioFool18]

8 minutes ago, petetherock said:

Mate, maybe you can sit down and read the about the various speaker positions and terminology first.. it will really help your cause.. cheers

I have read through the Dolby Atmos setup guide in post #2, and others. Butas I said 3.1.4 doesn't seem to be a config, and hence my question.

I guess I'll have to do the setup and have a play around to see what's possible and what sounds best.

 

Thanks for your help

[petetherock]

I don't anyone uses 3 front speakers + 4 TOP Speakers and No surrounds... 

The resultant surround effect does not seem to make sense..

[AudioFool18]

5 minutes ago, petetherock said:

I don't anyone uses 3 front speakers + 4 TOP Speakers and No surrounds... 

The resultant surround effect does not seem to make sense..

That answers my question, and the answer seems to be no.

I guess I could've asked it more concisely, but we got there.

I'll have to stick with the 5.1.2 and try to work the surround speakers as best I can.

Thanks

 

[petetherock]

So any progress?

remember to budget for a simple laser distance measure and at least download a spl app or REW (free) and the UMIK..

[AudioFool18]

On 08/10/2020 at 11:30 AM, petetherock said:

So any progress?

No. The room is still being reno'd, and won't likely to be complete for a few more months.

At this stage, still getting info as to what I'm going to do. Have decided to keep the current layout, and have 5.1.2 with the surround speakers as height.

Thanks

[Guest niterida]

9 hours ago, AudioFool18 said:

No. The room is still being reno'd, and won't likely to be complete for a few more months.

At this stage, still getting info as to what I'm going to do. Have decided to keep the current layout, and have 5.1.2 with the surround speakers as height.

Thanks

If you mean 5.1.2 configuration with the surrounds mounted in the ceiling, then that won't work. For Atmos all the 5.x.x speakers should be at ear level, with only the x.x.2 mounted above you (either in or on ceiling or high up on the walls)

You will be getting surround sound effects meant to be low coming at you from above and mixing with the sounds supposed to be coming from above.

Mount the Left Surround as per your new drawing (at ear level) and mount the Right surround on the pantry door with enough spare speaker cable to be able to open the door. Yes I am serious as there are no other options.

 

Well there is one other and that has been mentioned already - place your Right Surround on a stand and move it into position each time.

 

Even if you stick with your original drawing that too is very compromised and will have similar speaker mounting issues.

 

Although there may be one last thing - mount your surrounds on stands directly behind the seating, but facing out at 90deg to the seats so that the sound hits the wall on the left and the pantry on the right and bouncews back to the seats. I have tried this in my dedicated theatre and found it sounded better then any other speaker position. Just remember to adjust the speaker distance in the AVR to be the distance from the speaker to the wall and back to the MLP. And yes I am serious about this option too.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by niterida

[AudioFool18]

18 hours ago, niterida said:

If you mean 5.1.2 configuration with the surrounds mounted in the ceiling, then that won't work. For Atmos all the 5.x.x speakers should be at ear level, with only the x.x.2 mounted above you (either in or on ceiling or high up on the walls)

No, I mean having the speakers on the wall, but high up, rather than ear level, maybe 1.8m high. I know this is not ideal, but it seems I have to make the compromise.

What would happen in an ideal world is the speakers sit at on the wall near ceiling, and when I watch a movie it comes down to ear level ... but that's just a dream.

 

I like your idea of the speakers firing out the sides, but my comment would be if I have speakers on a stand where the sofa is, then surely I can just have surround speakers there instead? What would be the advantage?

[SGS]

Might be a left field idea but what about going diagonal?

Place tv in corner left of window, angle couch at tv then there are 2 walls for the surrounds.

Edited October 13, 2020 by SGS

[Guest niterida]

4 hours ago, AudioFool18 said:

No, I mean having the speakers on the wall, but high up, rather than ear level, maybe 1.8m high. I know this is not ideal, but it seems I have to make the compromise.

What would happen in an ideal world is the speakers sit at on the wall near ceiling, and when I watch a movie it comes down to ear level ... but that's just a dream.

 

I like your idea of the speakers firing out the sides, but my comment would be if I have speakers on a stand where the sofa is, then surely I can just have surround speakers there instead? What would be the advantage?

Up high or on the ceiling is the same - surrounds must be at ear level in an Atmos setup.

 

Not sure what you mean with you last comment?

the speakers behind the seating are your surround speakers - you would still have the in-ceiling Atmos speakers above you.