30-days/More/Less customer satisfaction for hiend purchase in Australia retailer? Is it too unrealistic and unreasonable?

[ikhuong]

Hi fellow SNAs,

We are one of the countries to pay the most expensive price tag for hiend audio in the world but some retailers and distributors' customer service and narrow-viewed business mindset are not equivalent with counterparts in other places.

I bought a  premium-priced power cable and wanted to return after 3 weeks to go up the line as I found the limitation in its current delivery, I also have another cable from them just one week old.

 

The retailer/distributor only wanted to treat my new bought item as second hand and only offer secondhand trade and full stop,  instead of accepting the ideology that I am not satisfied and asking for a return and store credit to purchase toward their much more expensive cable. They probably get more money in selling me the higher end cable and I will come back again as a loyal customer for another purchase.I had an unpleasant experience as the store think I were unreasonable and blamed that I did not use the cable for a right application (Front end only although its 12awg).

 

Looking around for example:
1) PS Audio 30 days: Security and Returns 

2) 60 days satisfaction https://www.musicdirect.com/Return-Policy

Return Policy At Music Direct our message has always been clear: It's the music that matters! As the leading retailer of high-end audio products, we stand behind the quality of our goods with a 60-day satisfaction guarantee.

3) https://www.thecableco.com/faqs

Return on NEW PRODUCT PURCHASES (exceptions below):

Unhappy with your purchase? We offer a 30 day return for refund on purchases of new products. Merchandise must be returned in the original purchase condition including all packaging and accessories.

 

Anyway, do you think this is a kind of narrow-minded business mindset from this retailer/distributor in selling cables or were I totally wrong to buy this cable and expecting too much? Lots of hiend cable brands and retailers are willing to take the generous return policies to accept customer return in new purchase. Considering cable business is very profitable and many customers are willing to pay unreasonable high price tags in cables or sometimes accept snack oil, so is it unfair to set a strict policy on cables to return?

 

Would be appreciate to know your mindset and opinion to set myselft more reasonable.

 

Thanks,

Edited September 21, 2020 by ikhuong

[ikhuong]

Or an Aussie store which is offering excellent business mindset which I would love to do business with again and again

https://www.heynowhifi.com.au/pages/shipping-and-returns

 

REFUNDS/ RETURNS POLICY

Do you allow refunds for a change of mind? If so, how long do customers have to contact you?

Yes, we do. We are confidence that you will love our product however if you change your mind or for whatever the reason our product haven’t met your expectation. Call us within 14 to get a full refund no-question asked. 100% satisfaction guaranteed

All we ask from you is to return the goods (rather by post at your own expense or free of charge directly in our store) with the receipt or proof of purchase within 14 day. The product need to be in a perfect re-salable condition and in its complete packaging and we`ll happily refund your money.

Do you accept returns/exchanges?

Yes we do accept exchanges and returns, We offer refunds too. HeyNow Hi-Fi wants you to be satisfied with your purchase and will work with you to find the solution that suits you best. That may be returning the unit to get the next one up or a different brand or simply your money back.

[BugPowderDust]

I'm not sure there is an easy answer here. I understand your position, but change of mind isn't always a fair result for both parties.

 

I think you need to balance off your personal decisions in doing your own research etc with the ability for a retailer to turn something around and resell it again afterwards.  Distributors often have re-shelfing costs which the retailer can't escape which cover the cost of re-packaging etc. Retailers don't necessarily carry stock until the point of sale so returning it because you want a change of mind / customer satisfaction warranty can have consequences.

 

Maybe think of it in this direction and it will help:

 

What if you bought something for say $6k from the retailer, but returned it 30 days later.  The retailer had to order that item in for you, and can't easily return it to a distributor without upsetting their sales recognition for sales reps etc, and now have an ex demo they need to on sell. Do you expect the retailer to take a big hit on the price they can sell it for?

 

Also, under Victorian (and Australian) consumer law, change of mind is no reason for a refund: https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/business-practices/store-policies/change-of-mind 

 

Quote

Under the Australian Consumer Law, the customer is only entitled to a refund or replacement for a major problem with a product covered by consumer guarantees.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by recur

[ikhuong]

17 minutes ago, recur said:

I'm not sure there is an easy answer here. I understand your position, but change of mind isn't always a fair result for both parties.

 

I think you need to balance off your personal decisions in doing your own research etc with the ability for a retailer to turn something around and resell it again afterwards.  Distributors often have re-shelfing costs which the retailer can't escape which cover the cost of re-packaging etc. Retailers don't necessarily carry stock until the point of sale so returning it because you want a change of mind / customer satisfaction warranty can have consequences.

 

Maybe think of it in this direction and it will help:

 

What if you bought something for say $6k from the retailer, but returned it 30 days later.  The retailer had to order that item in for you, and can't easily return it to a distributor without upsetting their sales recognition for sales reps etc, and now have an ex demo they need to on sell. Do you expect the retailer to take a big hit on the price they can sell it for?

 

Also, under Victorian (and Australian) consumer law, change of mind is no reason for a refund: https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/business-practices/store-policies/change-of-mind 

 

 

Thanks for your opinion of the the another end of the viewpoint, I am glad we are living in a flatter world nowadays and there are excellent stores who want to step up in business game for customer satisfaction.

 

my bad in assuming in a 12awg power cables should not cause any issue for a 300w power plant feed but it is. So it is not a total change of mind but there is also some unsatisfying in product as well as their advertising is no current limit impact.

 

and there is no explicitly policy in their website about change of mind as well

 Below is recommended practice:

“In-store policies

Some stores and chains have an in-store policy to offer a refund, exchange or credit note if a customer changes their mind. If so, this policy should be clearly displayed at the point of sale or included on the business’ website (if it has one), so customers can read it before buying. Stores that have such policies must abide by them.

It is okay for an in-store policy to have some limits, such as: 

• 'No change-of-mind refunds on sale items'
• 'No change-of-mind refunds after seven days'.”

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by ikhuong

[Bunno77]

Some stores are better than others with this but yes your situation is silly on their behalf. 

 

I always find it amusing that stores treat returns like this as second hand and offer a low price when many stores ask crazy high prices for their second hand stock (floor demo) that often has marks, dents, damaged etc. I understand it's a business but used is used and store stock have a lot more wear and tear than items in most people homes. 

 

[BugPowderDust]

@ikhuong did the power cable come in packaging that gets damaged when you open it?  Often that's a major pain as they can't repackage and resell.

 

I think many of you forget that the business selling you this stuff, isn't in it to make a loss.

 

If they can't resell what they sold you for full price after you return it for convenience, why should they be penalised? This is also why it pays to build a relationship with your preferred retailer so they personally know you and then these kinds of disputes are rare.

 

Sure you can dispute it, take your money to another retailer. For sure. But under the legal framework of Australian consumer law, the bit you chopped off with your quote above says:

Quote

If a store does not have a change of mind policy, the customer is only entitled to a refund or replacement for a major problem with a product covered by consumer guarantees.

In your example I guess you would need to argue the toss on whether it wasn't fit for purpose, but if you bought it without their professional advice, I guess you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on.

 

I'm not trying to be critical, and I know you sound pissed, but nothing going on here is seemingly illegal and while some retailers don't do this, it's by no means the rule.

 

[ikhuong]

Agreed, I took your feedback, I should let it go and being more reasonable,  will put my money somewhere else that has better  customer service  as I am a kind of picky person sometimes.

Edited September 22, 2020 by ikhuong

[ikhuong]

19 minutes ago, recur said:

@ikhuong did the power cable come in packaging that gets damaged when you open it?  Often that's a major pain as they can't repackage and resell.

 

I think many of you forget that the business selling you this stuff, isn't in it to make a loss.

 

If they can't resell what they sold you for full price after you return it for convenience, why should they be penalised? This is also why it pays to build a relationship with your preferred retailer so they personally know you and then these kinds of disputes are rare.

 

Sure you can dispute it, take your money to another retailer. For sure. But under the legal framework of Australian consumer law, the bit you chopped off with your quote above says:

In your example I guess you would need to argue the toss on whether it wasn't fit for purpose, but if you bought it without their professional advice, I guess you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on.

 

I'm not trying to be critical, and I know you sound pissed, but nothing going on here is seemingly illegal and while some retailers don't do this, it's by no means the rule.

 

No, cable box is an unsealed box,  but the cable itself is placed into  a basic heat-seal plastic bag 

Edited September 22, 2020 by ikhuong

[davewantsmoore]

3 hours ago, ikhuong said:

Anyway, do you think this is a kind of narrow-minded business mindset from this retailer/distributor

Yes, perhaps.... but it's your responsibility to discuss things like that with them before the sale   (eg. "can I bring it back if I want to upgrade further").

[Bronal]

How do you know it's the cable that's at fault?  What were you using to power it with?  What else is on the circuit?  Do you have a dedicated circuit for your system?  If not, that's where I'd start.  I had another one installed last week for $340 - a lot less than most 'premium' power cables.  The improvement was very noticeable.

[ikhuong]

1 minute ago, Bronal said:

How do you know it's the cable that's at fault?  What were you using to power it with?  What else is on the circuit?  Do you have a dedicated circuit for your system?  If not, that's where I'd start.  I had another one installed last week for $340 - a lot less than most 'premium' power cables.  The improvement was very noticeable.

It is not a faulty cable, it is dynamic reduced as using its for the input of Power plant P3, 

its recommendation is for front end devices but also advertised as no current limit and a 12awg heavy-wire cable.

 

I could hear a difference when using it verus a budget well-shielded Australian brand power cable, hence I feel it was not good in choking current and wanted to return and go up the line.

 

 

[Bunno77]

34 minutes ago, ikhuong said:

It is not a faulty cable, it is dynamic reduced as using its for the input of Power plant P3, 

its recommendation is for front end devices but also advertised as no current limit and a 12awg heavy-wire cable.

 

I could hear a difference when using it verus a budget well-shielded Australian brand power cable, hence I feel it was not good in choking current and wanted to return and go up the line.

 

 

Wouldn't be limiting current. 

You'd be having bigger issues if it was. 

[audiofeline]

Premium HiFi is always a tricky purchase, as the item's performance is always dependent on the context it's used in - the other components, the room, and the user's personal audio preference.  I can sympathise with the retailer's perspective, as they need to be able to resell the returned items - either as new or demo.  However, many retailers are also helpful and realistic, and want satisfied customers.  So it's best to ask what the specific conditions are on retuning purchased or evaluation items.  That way there will be no hard feelings or ill-will. 

[Frank Prowse Hi-Fi]

If the cable has been used, irrespective of a day, a week or a month,  it cant be re-sold as new and a dealer doing so is disingenuous. So with that in mind, a prospective re-buyer would expect the price offered to reflect this.

[ikhuong]

Thanks all for advice, I have calmed down and being more reasonable . One of the real reason which pissed me was store rep/maybe owner told me that they can take it back and asked me to pay the price difference

 

Which he did not say clear was to pay price difference in rrp price between the two and I assumed paying the price difference in his previous quoted price and my paid price for return item. 

At the time of transaction, I asked for clarifying and feel upset as being blamed unreasonable of expecting a used cable at full credit and he pressed hard in my misuse of application for an eligible refund and not his advice for power plant feeding.

 

The difference is around $150 or something which is peanut for my total 2-3k spend on the store for cables only, this is why I had to say a narrow-business mindset to me .

He can simply explain to me there is no change of mind policy rather than criticizing me  unreasonable and blaming of misuse. It is purely gray area as there is no explicitly Return policy on their website

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by ikhuong

[audiofeline]

If I was an owner of a retail store in a struggling environment and had a customer spend $2-3K on a luxury product I would be doing everything I could to make the customer feel valued so they would have the potential to spend another $2-3K in the future.  That may not mean doing what the customer expects - especially if there has been some confusion in the transaction - but definitely treating the customer with respect and maybe negotiating a win-win or compromise solution. 

 

 

[Saxon Hall]

This is a tricky subject. on one hand it is good PR for the store to"take a hit" and accept a return., On the other hand this leaves the store vulnerable with the type of person who buys multiple items purely to give the items  a "Test Run" at home. Then they return the ones which do not suit their requirements.

 

[ikhuong]

9 hours ago, audiofeline said:

If I was an owner of a retail store in a struggling environment and had a customer spend $2-3K on a luxury product I would be doing everything I could to make the customer feel valued so they would have the potential to spend another $2-3K in the future.  That may not mean doing what the customer expects - especially if there has been some confusion in the transaction - but definitely treating the customer with respect and maybe negotiating a win-win or compromise solution. 

 

 

100%, I don’t even want to win for just a $150 saving because I want to come back and spend more as a loyal customer and we have a great relationship. The real triggering events for me  to piss was the unclear conversation on “price difference”, I feel he misled me on the information. If I have to pay price difference between two items in rrp, there is no such a discount and no one is going to buy high-end power cables at rrp price. I am going to put the cable on Classified for 20-30% off and still get more but those figures are all peanuts

 

when I politely asked about the quoted price and he started to piss and put a series of blame and reasons including my unreasonable expectation, misuse of the cables as his advice. I found none of those words are relevant for a customer who was holding a credit card on hard. I needed to cut him hard in saying “I am sorry i want to return the cable”

 

so the context here is not really my intention to return a very
-well made cable within 30 days, with its noise reduction ability, I can use it for my video projector. It is more about the store owner said  “yes, you can” and “only pay the difference” before our conversation turned to a different debate as I said to him “I am returning a cable now as I am not satisfied with its performance to choke current and causing system to lose its dynamic

Edited September 22, 2020 by ikhuong

[Dean Gale]

You should have asked for a loaner once the new package is opened it is used and shouldn't be sold and described as new ! The retailer has suffered a loss your indignation is kind of strange because you know that they have . What happens when you go up to the next model and find it is supposedly current limiting , in reality its the wall plug unit not the cable anyway . Do they keep taking back each cable you want to try ? 

[Hydrology]

2 hours ago, ikhuong said:

100%, I don’t even want to win for just a $150 saving because I want to come back and spend more as a loyal customer and we have a great relationship. The real triggering events for me  to piss was the unclear conversation on “price difference”, I feel he misled me on the information. If I have to pay price difference between two items in rrp, there is no such a discount and no one is going to buy high-end power cables at rrp price. I am going to put the cable on Classified for 20-30% off and still get more but those figures are all peanuts

 

when I politely asked about the quoted price and he started to piss and put a series of blame and reasons including my unreasonable expectation, misuse of the cables as his advice. I found none of those words are relevant for a customer who was holding a credit card on hard. I needed to cut him hard in saying “I am sorry i want to return the cable”

 

so the context here is not really my intention to return a very
-well made cable within 30 days, with its noise reduction ability, I can use it for my video projector. It is more about the store owner said  “yes, you can” and “only pay the difference” before our conversation turned to a different debate as I said to him “I am returning a cable now as I am not satisfied with its performance to choke current and causing system to lose its dynamic

I’m sorry but I find your posts difficult to read. So let me get this right....you bought a cable at a discounted price and now after use you want to return it for the higher one up the range. The seller is telling you that you can do that so long as you pay the RRP difference. This still factors in a discount as “if” the RRP difference is, say, $500, you’re still getting the same monetary value off the new cable.

[sir sanders zingmore]

1 minute ago, Hydrology said:

I’m sorry but I find your posts difficult to read. So let me get this right....you bought a cable at a discounted price and now after use you want to return it for the higher one up the range. The seller is telling you that you can do that so long as you pay the RRP difference. This still factors in a discount as “if” the RRP difference is, say, $500, you’re still getting the same monetary value off the new cable.

Yes I was thinking about this too:

Lets say original cable cost RRP $1,000 and you got it for $800
Upgrade cable costs say RRP $1,500

 

So in order to upgrade, you pay the $500 difference in RRP ($1,500 - $1,000).

Total price you've paid is $800 + $500 = $1,300

 

You've still saved $200

 

[MrC]

2 hours ago, ikhuong said:

 The real triggering events for me  to piss was the unclear conversation on “price difference”, I feel he misled me on the information.

 

when I politely asked about the quoted price and he started to piss and put a series of blame and reasons including my unreasonable expectation, misuse of the cables as his advice. I found none of those words are relevant for a customer who was holding a credit card on hard. I needed to cut him hard in saying “I am sorry i want to return the cable”

 

Your use of the word p155 here is rather unique and I have not heard this word used in this manner before ..... which made your post quite difficult to read as mentioned by another member.

[ikhuong]

 

16 minutes ago, Hydrology said:

I’m sorry but I find your posts difficult to read. So let me get this right....you bought a cable at a discounted price and now after use you want to return it for the higher one up the range. The seller is telling you that you can do that so long as you pay the RRP difference. This still factors in a discount as “if” the RRP difference is, say, $500, you’re still getting the same monetary value off the new cable.

Quite correct except the seller did not say the price difference in RRP,

 

Initially I received a quoted price for better cable at $13 for example, then I asked if I can return another cable  and was confirmed "yes, just pay the difference"

My assumption was to pay the difference between the $13 quoted price and the price I paid for another cable.

 

So an unclear conversation initially in "paying the difference" has subsequently led to a debate between him and me about everything later.

 

[Marc]

I don't think there is any more this thread can hope to achieve. If you're not happy, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere.

We all have different expectations, both consumers and retailers. Unfortunately for you these expectations didn't align with the retailer's.

As a consumer you have choice, which you can now exercise. None of what anyone says here matters ultimately. It is you that needs to be happy.