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Fantastic review of the Lumagen Radiance Pro HERE on StereoNet. I recently added one of these to my cinema. Actually it was part of a solution package I purchased from Wavetrain Cinemas with a BenQ W12000 Projector that was also calibrated by David Mosely from Wavetrain. I would concur 100% with the review - simply an outstanding product. Yes, its high end and it isn't cheap. But if you want the best possible image you can get, then you need a Lumagen. Its also a product that is best purchased as a 'solution'. In other words, purchase it from someone who knows how to calibrate it properly.

 

Current Cinema Setup HERE

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Many may not be aware but Jim Peterson ( Lumagen)  has been working on a NEW update  for the Lumagen Radiance Pro series VP,s. that incorporates a NEW UP-Scaling Algo AND!!!!! for the first time a "Sh

Yeah,well  i havnt made myself "popular" with Richard and Mathias from madVR.....Oh Well ! It is what it is...

Here’s the details and the list of participating dealers for those on the fence about buying a lumagen.    https://www.stereo.net.au/news/free-in-home-isf-calibration-with-lumagen-video-process

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I edited and published Tony's review and let me just say, I was sold after reading it. Like your advice, @Clarity Calibration has suggested I wait until he can travel to Melbourne again to set it up for me and I think that sounds like good advice. 

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Lumagen has teamed with a number of software companies and there are some pretty good packages for auto-calibration.   So no adjustments are made to your PJ- its all done on the Lumagen automatically.  One of the providers, Chromapure auto -cal can do 4913 point accuracy.   

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51 minutes ago, TP1 said:

Lumagen has teamed with a number of software companies and there are some pretty good packages for auto-calibration.   So no adjustments are made to your PJ- its all done on the Lumagen automatically.  One of the providers, Chromapure auto -cal can do 4913 point accuracy.   

All LUT calibration is performed by the software automatically , whether it's Chromapure, Calman or LightSpace/Colourspace.

 

Hitting the button to create the 1D and 3D LUT, is the easy part. It's what's done before and after the LUT in setting up both the Lumagen and projector that takes some understanding of what you're  doing. 

 

Not to say it can't or shouldn't be done, it's just not as easy as the press of a button. Or at least it shouldn't be...

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On 15/07/2020 at 7:22 PM, Clarity Calibration said:

All LUT calibration is performed by the software automatically , whether it's Chromapure, Calman or LightSpace/Colourspace.

 

Hitting the button to create the 1D and 3D LUT, is the easy part. It's what's done before and after the LUT in setting up both the Lumagen and projector that takes some understanding of what you're  doing. 

 

Not to say it can't or shouldn't be done, it's just not as easy as the press of a button. Or at least it shouldn't be...

 

I do understand that it is not as easy as a press of a button, and  as with DIY anything, the top pros will do it better.  However, Chromapure ( and I think Calman) can also auto calibrate  grayscale as part of their autocal packages with both companies  having published guides  as well as providing support.  Lightspace is LUT only. In any event, automatic  LUT calibrating  of 4913 points is pretty awesome from a DIY  perspective and it does not use approximations ( in the words of LightSpace)  as does the Autocal software  designed for specific brands of projectors and TVs .

 

In Australia Lumagen is largely  marketed through custom installers and their customers expect the full service including calibration, as they should. However, in the USA as well as a growing number of people in Australia, UK, and Europe, customers are enthusiasts willing to tweak themselves. These people are also looking at Lumagen or  MadVR  as tools  to extract the best performance from their system.

 

I guess the reason for all this is that I am at the point of taking the plunge on a Lumagen myself  and I have been going through all these issues,  except that in my case I would want to do  calibration  regularly which would rule out  professional calibration from a cost and convenience perspective. 

 

 

Edited by TP1
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I am too fat and lazy to tweak anything these days...when I have the hours on the PJ and Tony is in MEL he can do his stuff on both 🙂

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

I received my Lumagen recently and have had a chance to hook it up.  I'm just using basic " quick setup" type settings and  have witnessed PQ improvements pretty much out of the box.  The HDR settings are easy enough to set and surprisingly  intuitive given the  old dos style menu system.   I  experimented with using the Lumagen to upscale 1080p or less video to 4K  compared to letting the Sony 760Es do it  and at this stage I haven't seen any visible benefit letting the Lumagen do it, although its early days yet.  This is consistent with findings from  at least one other  885ES/760Es owner on AVS  who prefers to let the projector do the scaling for non-4k material  which enables them to use Darbee processing on the Lumagen .

 

So far I have only caught a glimpse of the capabilities of the Lumagen and  to extract the most out of it I have decided not to travel the DIY route and have booked an expert to do a proper calibration and set up for me.  Scott Rogan from Rogue Home Theatre in Perth has set up  a few of these as well as a couple of 760Es projectors  and will be visiting next week. He  advised that he has achieved best results with laser and laser/phosphor projectors when using a $15k spectrophotometer in conjunction with all the other gear.    It makes the gear  I was going to use look pretty agricultural indeed.   I will report back when its done.

 

Linear Power Supply 

 

I swapped out the standard switch mode power supply (SMPS)  for a high quality LPS  ( that I used for audio) and the improvements for both audio and video  were immediately noticeable.  In Europe the Keces PSU is sometimes sold with Lumagen but I used an Uptone audio JS-2 expertly modified by @Doncentric using custom designed and manufactured transformer and choke from Hashimoto in Japan together with Epcos Sikorel capacitors.   The same PSU  has made quite dramatic improvements to a Mac mini being used as source as well as 12V powered media players although it doesn't have the juice to operate  a high powered HTPC.   

Edited by TP1
grammar
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This is  a video of Jim Peterson ( CEO Lumagen) talking about enhancements that a German company Cinemike does for Lumagen.  He talks about improvements to audio and video from Cinemike's expensive power supply . I don't know  what they cost but I would suggest a stock  Uptone audio JS-2 or Keces PSU ( neither are cheap)  would produce outstanding results if anyone is interested in going down that route.

 

 

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Cinemike updates get a lot of commentary elsewhere - some swear by them while others claim they are purely snake oil.  Regardless they are an expensive add on.  However I  would take Jim P's  assessment as being very creditable.  Sounds like a PSU replacement is a great improvement.

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19 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

II  experimented with using the Lumagen to upscale 1080p or less video to 4K  compared to letting the Sony 760Es do it  and at this stage I haven't seen any visible benefit letting the Lumagen do it,

You will not see much improvement here.....up scaling is NOT Lumagen,s strong point..  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had the Lumagen /Sony 760ES professionally calibrated  and  I'm pretty stoked  with the results.  I have had professional calibrations with this and other projectors before but I can't remember seeing  such realistic and  beautiful colours.    HDR tone mapping  appears to be flawless ( so far) and  the parameters are easy to play around with should one wish to do so.  

 

The big surprise ( for me anyway) is what the Lumagen can  do for  1080i, 720p and 1080p content.  I have  seen comments that Lumagen ( and Mad VR)  can make lesser video content rival UHD material  and frankly I was a little sceptical.  Not any more.  I  don't know exactly how they do it but the the difference  is truly amazing .  Part of it  would be the beautiful colours  but  all aspects of the picture seem to be improved.  Its a good excuse to rewatch some favourite movies!

 

Edited by TP1
typo
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10 hours ago, TP1 said:

I had the Lumagen /Sony 760ES professionally calibrated  and  I'm pretty stoked  with the results.  I have had professional calibrations with this and other projectors before but I can't remember seeing  such realistic and  beautiful colours.    HDR tone mapping  appears to be flawless ( so far) and  the parameters are easy to play around with should one wish to do so.  

 

The big surprise ( for me anyway) is what the Lumagen can  do for  1080i, 720p and 1080p content.  I have  seen comments that Lumagen ( and Mad VR)  can make lesser video content rival UHD material  and frankly I was a little sceptical.  Not any more.  I  don't know exactly how they do it but the the difference  is truly amazing .  Part of it  would be the beautiful colours  but  all aspects of the picture seem to be improved.  Its a good excuse to rewatch some favourite movies!

I agree with your assessment and findings. I have been rewatching many 4K and Blu Ray discs and the addition of the Lumagen is the single biggest improvement I have ever experienced in video. I could not live without it now.

Another video review has also turned up on you tube here: 

 

10 hours ago, TP1 said:

 

 

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Posted (edited)

This video interview with Jim Peterson, the man behind Lumagen says it all about this product; its quite a deep dive into the product; but its well worth the time if you are in the market to improve your video experience.  There are very few products I have experienced in my 25+  years in the AV industry (Ive been out of the industry for ten years now) that are so ground breaking in their performance as the Lumagen Radiance Pro. The only caveat I think is worth restating is that's this is not a plug and play product- it requires significant knowledge to make it sing (ala professional calibration). Once on song tho it quite simply provides breathtaking video.

Lumagen Interview

Edited by JoshH
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Lumagen might  need a bit more than "plug and play" to get the most out of it but there is tons of support  if you need it. I sent an email to Lumagen  about automating a setting and I received a quick response from Jim Peterson himself who invited me to call him if I got stuck. Amazing stuff!

 

There are also plenty of discussion forums and helpful sites to solve issues for anyone who is interested.  For my part I will stick to pro-calibration but I am happy to fiddle with everything else myself.  In fact, it's not that difficult ( for those so inclined)  to use and configure Lumagen once the calibration is done.

 

I originally bought the Lumagen with the firm  intention of calibrating the system myself but I'm glad I didn't. Even if I did know what I was doing ( let's be kind here and pretend I might have done some things right 😉 ),  it would not have been possible to obtain the amazing accuracy  of colour, grayscale etc that Scott Rogan from Rogue Home Cinema was able to achieve. Apart from his ISF training and experience in calibrating Lumagen, affordable amateur equipment is a bit 'Mickey Mouse' compared to the pro gear. He even hired a $15K  spectrophotometer for the occasion ( I was happy to pay extra for the rental cost)  to guarantee absolute accuracy for the laser light source. 

 

This brings me to inevitable assessment of purchasing decisions for Lumagen. I think it is definitely worth getting a  Lumagen  radiance Pro.  It should outlast any TV/Projector -   Lumagen continually update it  and even when  8K  becomes an everyday reality,  I would expect to see updated boards  for the Radiance Pro.  As for price, I think the Aussie RRP is steep but that is what arm-twisting was invented for.    Overseas pricing is better and perhaps that can be used as part of the negotiation dance.

 

 

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Mine is in place, easy to setup and configure. Calibration I will leave to the experts though. Only @Clarity Calibration can get so excited about 50 shades of grey. :)

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On 24/08/2020 at 11:02 PM, TP1 said:

I have  seen comments that Lumagen ( and Mad VR)  can make lesser video content rival UHD material  

 

madVR and  madVR Envy...but not so much Lumagen...........Up-Scaling is Lumagens weak point.                    ( I own the Lumagen 4242 , madVR HTPC and Envy Extreme..) 

 

We have been doing  some in depth analysis  on the Lumagen vs madVR,s  Up-Scaling... the Lumagen isnt really in the same league as the other 2..

 

Changed the output to 1080p 4:2:2 instead of 4:4:4. Again, madVR was used to render the video with NGU Sharp set to Very High for the chroma upscaling. It seems my capture card can only accept a YUV signal, which means there is still an issue with the RBG levels, as YUV is forced into 16-235 and madVR creates them at 0-255. I can't figure out a way around that, but I did attempt to get them as close as possible. Just ignore any shadow detail and color differences between the shots. That's not what we're comparing anyways:

 

 

Here's a few shots comparing NGU Anti Alias vs Lumagen and NGU Sharp. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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23 hours ago, wooferocau said:

madVR and  madVR Envy...but not so much Lumagen...........Up-Scaling is Lumagens weak point.                    ( I own the Lumagen 4242 , madVR HTPC and Envy Extreme..) 

 

There has been a lot of hype about MadVR  Envy for 18 months now and still  isn't commercially available. It certainly hasn't been put  to such extensive testing  throughout the world  as Lumagen has.  What you  are saying is encouraging and will make the Envy an interesting proposition,  but it will only be a real contender once they produce consistently  reliable units in commercial numbers and have an infrastructure in place to support it.  Then it can  be analysed properly  (only scarce details are available for the hardware configuration for example)  and the units can then be put to the test by everyone ( not just beta users), which is when the downsides as well as the upsides  are thoroughly reported.   

 

While you have found the Envy to scale better on some examples, Lumagen is continually evolving too so I cant see them standing still here. But I didn't buy the Lumagen for scaling, I haven't found a device that can do it as good as Sony's better projectors anyway  and I've tested a number of different 4K blu-ray players and source devices.  

 

I have no doubt about the commitment of the madVR  Envy project and it will be welcomed by many - I am sure its interface will appeal to a lot of people too. However, since we are talking about what may come in the future, I would also be looking forward to see what developments Lumagen does with its machines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, TP1 said:

 

There has been a lot of hype about MadVR  Envy for 18 months now and still  isn't commercially available. It certainly hasn't been put  to such extensive testing  throughout the world  as Lumagen has.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realise that madVR has been in development for more than a decade?  It ( as is Lumagen) will always be a "Work in Progress".

 

The Lumagen is fantastic device,  BUT i just had to reply in regards to the mentioned Up_scaling....... as the Lumagen is VERY lacking here.   The Lumagen will NEVER approach either madVR or Envy in this regard due to the the FPGA used in the Lumagen.   

AI up-scaling requires enormous computational power, thus why Nividia GPU,s are used for madVr and Envy.

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15 hours ago, wooferocau said:

You do realise that madVR has been in development for more than a decade?  It ( as is Lumagen) will always be a "Work in Progress".

 

The Lumagen is fantastic device,  BUT i just had to reply in regards to the mentioned Up_scaling....... as the Lumagen is VERY lacking here.   The Lumagen will NEVER approach either madVR or Envy in this regard due to the the FPGA used in the Lumagen.   

AI up-scaling requires enormous computational power, thus why Nividia GPU,s are used for madVr and Envy.

 

High power GPU and CPU bring their own problems as does anything based on a PC platform.  EMI and RFI increase in proportion to the power consumption and with specs of up to 250w for the Envy that's up to 5 times that of Lumagen. There is an attempt in most switch mode power supplies  (SMPS)  to  mitigate the effects of EMI and RFI but with PC power supplies there will be an inevitable trade-off  in quality.  That could be ameliorated  with a decent  linear power supply,  but it would be an expensive option, less so for Lumagen.    I realise that PSU's are not often discussed in terms of video performance, but we are talking about ultimate tweaks here where PSU plays an important role.

 

As far as FPGA , CPU and GPU are concerned, FPGA's are configurable parallel processing devices. An entire algorithm  can be configured  to be executed  in  just one or two  clock cycles and in any case far fewer than required by CPU and GPU.  This is one reason why they are chosen because they can outperform far more powerful ( in terms of clock cycles) processors.  Of course they need to be programmed correctly to achieve that but the point is  Lumagen  has a lot of untapped potential in its FPGA's.  

 

Personally I am not a fan of desktop PC's  feeding into audio and video streams due to inevitable compromises, but like anything else its best to wait and see how things pan out. 

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"High power GPU and CPU bring their own problems as does anything based on a PC platform."

 

I was going to make this point as well. MAD VR might be fine for those happy to run a home cinema PC and deal with the software issues that come with that. But my personal feeling is that for polished high end cinemas, Lumagen is the preferred option.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Many may not be aware but Jim Peterson ( Lumagen)  has been working on a NEW update  for the Lumagen Radiance Pro series VP,s. that incorporates a NEW UP-Scaling Algo AND!!!!! for the first time a "Sharpening" function for both UP-Scaling and 4K material.

The DARBEE feature is still available , which is more of a contrast enhancer than a sharpener. This can be used in conjunction with the new sharpening feature OR either can be used individually.

 

I have spent all day with a PRE Release Beta Firmware and i will just say that Lumagen Radiance  Pro owners will be VERY happy once this is avialble officially...😊

 

Its great to see product continually  evolving... 😊

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Good on you Woofer .... I am looking forward to this update.  Do you know when it will be officially released?

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2 minutes ago, MrC said:

Good on you Woofer .... I am looking forward to this update.  Do you know when it will be officially released?

No sorry , i am on the 3rd revision.....still some work being done on the 4K apsect. ( Sharpening ) 

 

Its VERY good! 😊

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MrC said:

Ok .. I assume that the sharpening does not introduce artefacts provided you don't overdo it?

No, none at all that i can detect..  

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16 hours ago, wooferocau said:

No, none at all that i can detect..  

Hi Woofer .. I read your comments on the AVS forum Lumagen thread.  Can't wait to do my first update with my Lumagen.

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8 hours ago, TP1 said:

Nice one.  Any idea when it might be released to all owners?

I am guessing within a couple of weeks. I am due for another Beta  Revision in a few days time..😊

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Seems to be very little information (at least that I could find) regarding resellers of Lumagen products in Australia.  I understand that Cogworks (https://cogworks.io/) are the distributor, but am curious to know who people have used when purchasing their Lumagen products.  Who was the retailer/reseller?   Did you buy in Australia or import?  Did you have it calibrated or DIY?  If so, who did the calibration?

 

 

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As you know, Lumagen is a very specialised product, and as such they're not just available at retailers scattered around the country. My best advice to you is to contact Cogworks and speak to them who will advise your nearest specialist who can either sell you a unit, or provide the full sales and calibration service.

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Thanks Marc.  Would still be interested to hear from owners on what approach they took.  If they did contact Cogworks, who were they referred to? How was the experience?  

 

Being a specialist product I certainly understand I'm not going to pick one up on special in my next Harvey Norman catalog, but am I to believe that there are no retailers (specialist, online or otherwise) in Australia that do not either stock, demo or have experience with Lumagen products? 

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It tends to be handled by either Calibrators, Custom Installers and Integrators, or included in the spec of custom builds by some of the larger retailers. It's just not an off-the-shelf product much like Blustream, and other custom installation related equipment.

9 minutes ago, xPLAYRZx said:

but am I to believe that there are no retailers (specialist, online or otherwise) in Australia that do not either stock, demo or have experience with Lumagen products? 

Cogworks can answer this quickly, and directly. 

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I bought a Lumagen 2020 some years ago from Curt Palme in the US. I wasn’t aware of a local dealer at the time. Excellent service from them, and I bought an auto cal package with it. I did it all myself, but it wasn’t easy, and whilst I was happy with the results, not sure I was getting the best out of it. I’ve just retired it as I’m upgrading to 4K, and the 2020 is 1080p only. I’ll keep the software and colorimeter for my new projector, but will probably sell the Lumagen if anyone shows any interest.

 

blonk

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