Silver vs Copper Interconnects

[Gregory13]

Hi all,

 

Very debatable and touchy subject to get into but I want some opinions on the differences between the 2.

 

Hope to gain some knowledge and also get some different outlooks to either echo my view or to either open myself to new ideas.

 

Cheers everyone!  

[Paul R]

I have used copper, silver plated copper, and now silver-gold alloy from Anticables .Level 6.2.

 

Silver plated copper I found bright and a little harsh in my system. But the proviso is that these were not expensive cables so this may have been more to do with the overall quality of the materials.

 

Copper is nice with warmth IMHO.

 

The Anticables silver-gold alloy is very nice, well balanced with good bass and extended highs.  I can recommend Anticables highly. I started with the Level 1 (copper), then progressed to Level  2 or 3 (cannot remember, it was a long time ago) and then to Level 6.2 which is top of the line.

 

ICs are very much system dependent so the truth is  you will need to experiment.

 

Good luck with your quest.

 

Paul

Edited September 17, 2020 by Paul R

[soundnut]

Hello,

I went through this process a few years ago so I hope this info will help you.

Silver does tend to sound brighter/brittle. The one I had were also directional so flow went from source to next down the chain.

I tried several interconnects from cheap to mediocre to high end (but not over the top.) During these tryouts I changed preamp, power amp and speakers (quality leads DO make a difference.) To all this I added a power conditioner. My findings are that you will experience a difference in sound quality whether good or adverse with each change of equipment and brand.

Power conditioner was eyeopener and would recommend this to you.

I was using single ended interconnects both silver and copper but preferred copper. I switched over to balanced interconnects (copper) and quality of sound went to another level.

HiFi is not all equal but it's a great journey to be on despite the blood, sweat and tears associated with it - not to mention the budget. I ended up with Shunyata speaker leads, Shunyata and JP Labs balanced copper interconnects. But you will have to try in your own system. Your preference will NOT be the same as mine in spite of the fact that most of us are after accurate reproduction of sound. And different brands are, er, well, different.

Enjoy the experiments.

Soundnut

[Lochawe]

On 16/09/2020 at 8:38 PM, Athanasiophile said:

Hi all,

 

Very debatable and touchy subject to get into but I want some opinions on the differences between the 2.

 

Hope to gain some knowledge and also get some different outlooks to either echo my view or to either open myself to new ideas.

 

Cheers everyone!  

What is your view?

I have used many types of interconnects over the years, pure Sliver, pure Copper, combinations of the two and for the last 10 years have mostly been using cables that use a blend of Silver, Gold and Palladium.

Only way to know is to listen yourself and I would suggest there are far too many variables in any given system to reliably generalise.

Good luck!

[petetherock]

+1 on the copper being warmer 

 

[Gregory13]

30 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

What is your view?

I have used many types of interconnects over the years, pure Sliver, pure Copper, combinations of the two and for the last 10 years have mostly been using cables that use a blend of Silver, Gold and Palladium.

Only way to know is to listen yourself and I would suggest there are far too many variables in any given system to reliably generalise.

Good luck!

I have not necessarily had years of experience but i do find copper interconnects to be slightly warmer that silver. Silver for me tends to be slightly brighter sounding but with slightly more detail in the upper mids and highs. Have not tried many silver plated copper interconnects as of yet but i find that they tend to provide the benefit of both warmth and detail (from experience with headphone cables).

[muon*]

All I have to add from my experience is that results can depend on the source of the metals, different levels and types of impurities in the metals and the annealing and drawing process are all factors.

 

I have had silver that is in no way bright and could be described as slightly warm.

[muon*]

Just to relate on material qualities in cables again.

 

When I first made some speaker cables using Duelund tin plated copper wire for a mate and being impressed, I thought I could get a similar result on the cheap using some tin plated copper wire off the spool from jaycar of the same gauge.

That ended up being a waste of time, as not even an expectation bias could hide the fact the jaycar stuff sounded horrid in comparison, was not even on the same planet as the old WE wire let alone the new Duelund wire that is copied from it.

Edited September 20, 2020 by muon*
grammar

[dcathro]

3 hours ago, muon* said:

Just to relate on material qualities in cables again.

 

When I first made some speaker cables using Duelund tin plated copper wire for a mate and being impressed, I thought I could get a similar result on the cheap using some tin plated copper wire off the spool from jaycar of the same gauge.

That ended up being a waste of time, as not even an expectation bias could hide the fact the jaycar stuff sounded horrid in comparison, was not even on the same planet as the old WE wire let alone the new Duelund wire that is copied from it.

Agreed, not all copper sounds the same, and the same goes for silver. Dielectric is also very critical. 

[Steve M]

Yes agree, you can’t generalise that all copper is smooth, though in the main Cu is smoother compared to Ag. I have three copper leads that seem to have some character and brightness. Namely, XLO Reference One and Oyaide PA120 (purple ones) and some Levon NZ interconnects too. The original Nordost Flatline Gold and Kimber 8TC speaker cables while being pure copper, are quite detailed and forward sounding.

 

You sometimes have to mix copper and silver to get the right tonal balance and ultra detail retrieval from your system, no one metal solution but instead synergy being the key. Can throw some Van den Hul First carbon ics in there too for good effect. I have a basket with about $10K RRP worth of cables that I mix and match, as needed.

 

Steve

 

 

.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Steve M

[MattyW]

I find it really does depend on the cables. I've heard copper cables which has sounded brittle and harsh and I've heard silver cables which sounded slightly warm. Silver may be associated silver with a bright, brittle sound though I'd suggest that's merely the sign of cheap, poor quality cables.

 

The best pure silver cables I've tried are:

 

1) Aurealis Audio R1 Dragon Litz Pure Silver - Slightly warm, incredibly detailed and layered sound with a massive wide sound stage. The best sounding cable I've ever run. No longer available through Aurealis due to the cost of Litz silver. A very natural sounding cable.

2) Robertson Audio Cables Diamond - Starts off bright and becomes neautral with burn in, detailed, layered with massive sound stage. It just lets through whatever is there but seems to lack a bit of the soul of the music which is where the Aurealis cables excel. Leans towards Hi-Fi sounding.

 

The best mixed cables:

 

1) The only ones I've tried, Aurealis Audio R1 Dragon - Mixed strand Pure Silver & Copper Litz. Everything said about the pure silver cable is true of this also except it lends greater body and naturalness in terms of bass and midrange. A lower price point doesn't hurt either. These are my preferred cable for bang per buck.

 

Copper cables:

 

1) A budget Aurealis cable made with Litz copper and Amphenol connectors - Very detailed and rich sounding.  Nicely layered though lacks the massive wide sound stage of the silver cables. Slighlty warm.

2) Another budget Aurealis cable, made with Neotech UPOCC copper and Amphenol connector - Not as detailed as the Litz. Very smooth and rich sounding with a mid bass emphassis which adds a nice weight to the sound. A hint of warmth.

 

 

I've run any number of cheap cables over the years (including Canare, Mogami, Van Damme etc) and as I've previously mentioned I've heard rough, brittle sounding copper cables just as I have warm silver cables. It really comes down to the quality of the cable. One thing I do like to avoid however is silver plated copper. It tends to sound sucked out in the midrange with a treble emphasis. Yes, it's often rough sounding. This is the sound most people associate with silver and too many vendors advertise them as silver.

 

Another cable which I find approaches Litz at a lower price point is the Duelund tinned copper stranded cotton covered oil impregnated wire. It has lovely sparkling highs and is incredibly natural sounding. Has a tube like feel to it. Brings the midrange forward in the mix without losing treble or bass.

 

The best cheap cables I've run have all been Van Damme..... Still, avoid the silver plated copper. As always a more expensive cable does not necessarily mean it is actually better. You do you research and take your chances as with anything in audio 

 

Anyway, I'll unwatch the thread after this post as I really can't be bothered with the ensuing debates that always seem to spring from these threads from the science vs subjective hearing crowds. I've seen anough of that to last a lifetime.

Edited September 20, 2020 by MattyW

[Bill125812]

After a decade of making cables, it simply comes down to the quality of copper or silver that Is used, and the dialectic used.  Air is the best dialectic by far.  
 

Many companies Say that they use pure silver wire   I have bought some of these cables and once cut, you can actually see the copper inside. So silver plated copper.    This is why I started making my own cables   Many cables are scams.   
 

I’ve  found paying  for solid silver or copper, ( jewellery  grade Is the only way to be sure of that you get. ) Then using differing  gauges of these wires produces the best depth, detail and sound gauge.  
 

The next issue is the dialectic.  Air.  Just use air.  A large tubing gives the cable lots of air dialectic.   Then for electromagnetic issues, cover the tubing with pure copper foil.   
 

Yes this is very labour intensive.  But it works.    Some commercial cables made similar to this are sold for huge amounts.  
 

As for what’s better.  Silver or copper.   Totally a personal  preference, and your equipment.    I’ve g0t a combination of both in my system.   It’s about the synergy 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Bill125812

[pwstereo]

17 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

The next issue is the dialectic.  Air.  Just use air.  A large tubing gives the cable lots of air dialectic.   Then for electromagnetic issues, cover the tubing with pure copper foil.

Can you draw/diagram that?

I'm familiar with air-spaced coax and heliax for RF transmission lines, but I'm struggling to picture what you mean for flexible audio signal cables. Is what you are taliking about for RCA type cables? How does it work with a twisted pair in a shield for balanced audio signal cables?

 

[muon*]

I had an interconnect once that was sold as pure silver yet it was ultra cheap stranded copper, the seller still promotes them on ebay as being pure silver.

Edited September 21, 2020 by muon*
typo

[Bill125812]

2 minutes ago, pwstereo said:

Can you draw/diagram that?

I'm familiar with air-spaced coax and heliax for RF transmission lines, but I'm struggling to picture what you mean for flexible audio signal cables. Is what you are taliking about for RCA type cables? How does it work with a twisted pair in a shield for balanced audio signal cables?

 

I’ll take a photo tomorrow and post it.  I’m terrible at drawing 

 

2 minutes ago, muon* said:

I had an interconnect once that was sold as pure silver yet it was ultra cheap stranded copper, the sell still promotes them on ebay as being pure silver.

totally agree.   I bought one lately to test against mine.  Sold as solid silver.  Not even close.    

[John0001]

Fascinating thread!

[pwstereo]

1 hour ago, Bill125812 said:

I’ll take a photo tomorrow and post it.  I’m terrible at drawing

Ha, me too, I wasn't expecting art, just an idea of what you are describing rather than detailed artwork

[Misternavi]

what you want from a interconnect is:

1/Shielding 

2/Low capacitance 

Don't worry too much about silver vs. copper. Not worth the OCD sleepless nights figuring out which is better.

-i have silver plated copper interconnects & also litz copper interconnect & plain old copper. I prefer the Silver plated low cap. cable.

-I have tin plated copper battery leads for speaker cables.

 

[Bill125812]

7 minutes ago, misternavi said:

what you want from a interconnect is:

1/Shielding 

2/Low capacitance 

Don't worry too much about silver vs. copper. Not worth the OCD sleepless nights figuring out which is better.

-i have silver plated copper interconnects & also litz copper interconnect & plain old copper. I prefer the Silver plated low cap. cable.

-I have tin plated copper battery leads for speaker cables.

 

I’m off to try the battery cables for speaker cables tomorrow now 

[pwstereo]

19 minutes ago, misternavi said:

-I have tin plated copper battery leads for speaker cables.

The old flat braided ones that you used to see as the earth lead on old tractors, etc?

This sort of stuff?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-FEET-1-BRAIDED-GROUND-STRAP-GROUNDING-Tinned-Copper-Flat-Braid-USA/291840998020

[Misternavi]

44 minutes ago, Bill125812 said:

I’m off to try the battery cables for speaker cables tomorrow now 

 

29 minutes ago, pwstereo said:

The old flat braided ones that you used to see as the earth lead on old tractors, etc?

This sort of stuff?

 

 

4ga. / 25mm sq.  tin plated PVC insulated. Had to buy a large cable crimping tool that could crimp the cable lugs that have a 10mm hole so it fits into a binding post.

Whole experience ended up costing too much. 

I wanted to try lowest resistance cable I could get my hands on. I have a client who makes motors winches for boats and they supply this cable. 

Bass is better than my  Kimber 12TC clone. As for the high freq. it still sounds the same. The cost works out to be more than the Kimber copy.

Edited September 21, 2020 by misternavi

[bob_m_54]

Dielectric

 

dielectric

/ˌdʌɪɪˈlɛktrɪk/

Learn to pronounce

 

Physics

adjective

adjective: dielectric

1. having the property of transmitting electric force without conduction; insulating.

    

noun

noun: dielectric; plural noun: dielectrics

1. a medium or substance with a dielectric property; an insulator.

    

Origin

 

 

[pwstereo]

8 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

Dielectric

But we do do a lot of the other (dialectic) here.

'...a discourse between two or more people holding different points of view about a subject but wishing to establish the truth through reasoned methods of argumentation.'

 

PS. Some use more reasoned methods than others

Edited September 21, 2020 by pwstereo
Aded PS

[MattyW]

Well what do you know. A copper cable has knocked blended strands of pure silver and copper/silver cable from first place amongst those I've tried.

 

Yesterday I recieved a new cable from Geoff at Aurealis Audio which combines 2x Duelund tinned copper strands and 2x Neotech UPOCC strands. Geoff describes the construction as:

 

"The cable is equal combinations of Duelund 26 awg and Neotech 28 awg UPOCC.  2 strands of each wound together in a 4-wire braid. 

The wires are inside one of my super flexible foamed teflon tubes and a conductive carbon shield is over the tube. "

 

I find it a very fast, present sounding cable producing that illusion that you are present for the original performance. It brings vocals and the midrange ever so slightly forward in the mix, though not as much as a pure Duelund cable does. Likewise it has more body to it without sounding mid bass heavy as pure Neotech UPOCC does. It sound smoother and richer sounding than either on their own and is incredibly transparent. It sounds extremely natural sounding rather than detailed however if you listen its in no way lacking in detail either...

 

It's without doubt the best interconnect I've ever used and it's not even remotely burned in. Experience tells me that Duelund takes about 100 hours and Neotech around 400 hours so it will be interesting to see what it's like when done. After speaking to Geoff this morning it seems that this could well be the beginning of a new range of cables from Aurealis. I'm thinking about getting another to go between my DAC and passive pre at this point 

[Digital]

3 hours ago, MattyW said:

A copper cable has knocked blended strands of pure silver and copper/silver cable from first place amongst those I've tried.

Interesting to know. Does this duelend tin + neotech copper cable is better than Litz silver + copper dragon IC in your system? Thank you