Willsenton R8 Owners & Discussion Thread

[Lam Pham]

21 hours ago, xlr8or said:

The lowest tap available on the R8 OPTs is 4ohm. I think the R8 will find the 4 frequencies above challenging to overcome.

 

One possible solution to all of this is to use the Speltz zero impedance autoformers and the 2x setting with your R3's to double the impedance curve values and use the 4 and 8ohm taps on the R8.

 

 

20 hours ago, Zed Zed said:

'd look for something easier to drive (hint: IMO high sensitivity speakers usually fall into this category and are, in any case, a better suit for a tube amp).  Are you in the UK? You might care to check out the Fyne Audio range - designed and made by a bunch of ex-Tannoy guys who set up on their own when Tannoy became Chinese-owned a few years back. Also. Tannoy make wonderful speakers, often with coaxial drivers and high-ish sensitivity.

Many thanks Xlr8or and Zed Zed for consulting on the Kef R3 and R8 matching. To make life easier I should look for other option. 

How about:

Fyne Audio F502 (new) or

Tannoy D500 (Vintage) or 

Tannoy Revolution XT 8F (New)

 

Which i can buy here and within my budget

(my room is 20 square meter (4x5).

 

Thanks for your always great support.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Lam Pham

[Zed Zed]

2 hours ago, Lam Pham said:

 

Many thanks Xlr8or and Zed Zed for consulting on the Kef R3 and R8 matching. To make life easier I should look for other option. 

How about:

Fyne Audio F502 (new) or

Tannoy D500 (Vintage) or 

Tannoy Revolution XT 8F (New)

 

Which i can buy here and within my budget

(my room is 20 square meter (4x5).

 

Thanks for your always great support.

 

 

They are all excellent speakers and I have direct experience of the Fyne Audios and the D500s. Both are 91dB sensitivity which is a much better fit for the R8 and you would have no trouble driving either pair in your room. I think the Fyne Audios offer better value than the new Tannoy XT 8F since Fyne Audio are trying to carve a reputation out for themselves around the world, being a relatively new company, but OTOH you will (only) find the D500s on the used market, so that comes into the value equation too. The XT 8Fs are lovely speakers, judging from their specifications and reviews, but I have no direct experience of them. HST, I have used Tannoys for many years and have had several pairs, none of which have ever disappointed. I still use Tannoy Pro speakers along with my huge JBLs in my home theatre too.

 

Besides all being 91dB speakers, these three also have coaxial drivers and, while admitting that this is a personal preference (bias) of mine, I do think that this sort of driver brings a lot to the party. They are phase coherent right from the driver (which is beneficial if you sit fairly close to them), they have a very wide axial dispersion pattern (so you get a much bigger 'sweet spot') and their imaging abilities are amazing.

 

The Fyne Audios are voiced very similarly to the Tannoys, as you might expect given their provenance, so if you like one, chances are you will like them all. The Fyne Audios are very 'modern' designs and feature some exclusive design tropes, such as their tweeter construction and their use of the downfiring bass port which uses their' Tractrix' diffuser. This type of port has significant benefits, notably an absence of any sort of 'chuffing' and also makes placement easier than a rear-firing port would.

 

I think I would be very happy with any of these three pairs of speakers, but would maybe slightly favour the Fyne Audio F502s because a) I have heard them and they are lovely and b) I believe they might offer better value for money. HST, the Tannoys are also terrific speakers.

 

At the end of the day, it will come down to preference as it always does with speakers, but partnered with the right amp I think your shortlist would work very well. If you can, get a demo before committing yourself, or failing that buy them from somewhere that allows you to return them (in perfect, original condition) if you decide you are not happy for some reason. A 30 day return window will be more than enough for you to evaluate them. Most good dealerships will allow that IME.

 

One final point, I would add that Fyne Audio have a superb customer focus and if you need to discuss any aspect of their speakers with their design and engineering team, you will get a quick and helpful reply. You will probably never need it, but it's good to know they are there for you if you do. (I am not suggesting Tannoy are not equally as good - just that I have no personal experience of their customer support since they became Chinese-owned. I have no reason to believe they have lost their customer focus which I know existed prior to the sale).

 

All of the above is personal opinion of course and others may, and probably will, suggest other speakers that will also be excellent for your purpose. I have replied at length because I have personal experience of both makes and, IMO, they are fantastic speakers for the money - lively, dynamic, smooth, good bass, amazing imagers, nicely constructed and extremely well-priced. A terrific match for the R8, IMO, in your room and for your musical tastes.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Zed Zed
Clarification

[xlr8or]

17 hours ago, motberg said:

Just a quick comment concerning the Melz tube noise.

I noticed at a HF thread (the-reference-6sn7-thread) that this can be sometimes fixed by a procedure to re-solder/re-flow the pins solder.

For more info - search "solder" and "Melz" in that thread.

I have never attempted the solder procedure, but have used a Melz 6SN7 in another device and to my ears was the most linear and natural sounding compared to a half dozen popular NOS 6SN7's I tried.

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks @Zed Zed I misread the post above.

 

This also applies the other way around with tube sockets in tube amps.

 

Many new Chinese manufactured tube amps that are mass produced end up having dry joints. It's also prevalent in many older tube amps whereby age causes a few solder connections to tube sockets to go dry.

 

In addition to this, rolling tubes causes the spring tension in tube sockets to loosen over time. The new gold pin varieties out of China have a tendency to go belly up only after 20 or so rolls. The older amphenol tube sockets are far better.

 

Second Edit: What’s happening here is there are earthing issues between the wiring and tubes that causes noise. Moreover, the same can occur within the tube with corroded pins on the outside and connection issues internal at the tube base. While octals can be resoldered, 9 and 7-pin minis can’t.

Edited March 19, 2021 by xlr8or

[Zed Zed]

49 minutes ago, xlr8or said:

 

This is unfortunately very true of many new Chinese manufactured tube amps that are mass produced. It's also prevalent in many older tube amps whereby age causes a few solder connections to tube sockets to go dry.

 

In addition to this, rolling tubes causes the spring tension in tube sockets to loosen over time. The newer gold pin varieties out of China have a tendency to go belly up only after 20 or so rolls. The older amphenol tube sockets are far better.

 

I've read about this elsewhere too. Are these 'saver socket' adapters of any use in your opinion?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cary-Bakelite-Socket-Triode-Rectifier/dp/B01AJIM2CQ/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=saver+socket+tube+valve&qid=1616168111&sr=8-9

 

EDIT:

 

I just took a look at the thread and the advise is about re-soldering the tube pins. It sounds like a fairly easy process and I may give it a try on the faulty Melz 6SL7 tube that I have here. Nothing to lose as the tube is unusable anyway and a replacement pair is on its way. 

 

This is the post in question:

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/page-37#post-14734536

 

Here's a photo-guide from later in that same thread for anyone interested:

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Zed Zed
Added link

[echorec]

37 minutes ago, Zed Zed said:

 

I've read about this elsewhere too. Are these 'saver socket' adapters of any use in your opinion?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cary-Bakelite-Socket-Triode-Rectifier/dp/B01AJIM2CQ/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=saver+socket+tube+valve&qid=1616168111&sr=8-9

 

 

 

I've tried several pairs of socket savers with the R8 and here's my experience: The ones you find on eBay, for the most part, are junk. They fit new production tubes fine, but many NOS pins fit so tight that I felt like I was going to break either the glass or the pins. One of the savers came apart trying to pull my Tung Sols out! And then I had the issue of the entire socket saver coming out along with the tube, which defeats the whole purpose. Also, some have reported some SQ reduction with newer Chinese savers. Just make sure you perform socket maintenance (following safety precautions!!!) if you tube roll frequently.

 

The octal savers TubeMonger makes are very nice, made from NOS parts, and fit NOS tubes well, but they are white and won't jive, aesthetically,  with my black R8:

 

https://www.tubemonger.com/OCTAL_NOVIB_Socket_Saver_Vibration_Red_GE_OMRON_p/novib-octal ge-omron.htm

Edited March 19, 2021 by echorec

[Zed Zed]

On 19/03/2021 at 8:24 AM, Lam Pham said:

 

Many thanks Xlr8or and Zed Zed for consulting on the Kef R3 and R8 matching. To make life easier I should look for other option. 

How about:

Fyne Audio F502 (new) or

Tannoy D500 (Vintage) or 

Tannoy Revolution XT 8F (New)

 

Which i can buy here and within my budget

(my room is 20 square meter (4x5).

 

Thanks for your always great support.

 

Thinking some more about this . . 

 

Your room is, I think, OK size-wise for the three sets of speakers you have listed, but you might also want to consider standmount speakers in there as well. The same manufacturers you mentioned also make equivalent standmount designs, sharing most of the qualities.

 

The only thing you really sacrifice with the standmounts is the last octave or so of bass, but my own workaround for this is to add a sub-bass system using a REL subwoofer. REL subs work on a different principle to most (which are usually designed for home theater systems) and you use them with their high-level (speaker level) input, connecting the wire directly to the amp with their supplied Speakon cable. This has various benefits, including the bass being sent to the sub being identical to that sent to the speakers, with damping and timing benefits too.

 

In addition, REL sub-bass systems are amazingly 'musical' unlike some of the 'thump-thump' subs out there (most of them probably). They are fast and dynamic and you will be impressed by the way they keep up with, and blend perfectly with, the main speakers.

 

The use of a separate sub system has many advantages, not least of which is that you can place the sub wherever it best suits the room modes while having the main speakers sited for imaging. Rarely does the best place for the bass unit coincide with the best place for the main speakers. You can also often hide the sub out of sight as bass is omnidirectional for the most part. And once you have a good sub-bass system in place, you can keep it through the life cycle of many different main speaker sets if you wish, saving you money later on.

 

I will confess my vested interest here since I use a Rel sub myself and would never really be without one. No matter how good the bass response of main speakers, one can never position them for best interaction with the room modes and a dedicated subwoofer, with its own amplification also relieves  strain from the mains and actually enables their mids and highs to sound better too! Most of the serious effort goes into playing LF at reasonable SPLs and taking this strain off the amp* which powers the mains makes a very clear and audible difference. This is especially true for low-powered tube amps such as the R8.

 

It's just something else to think about. Read up on Rel sub-systems for more info, or PM me here as this is getting OT for this thread. I have posted this separately because the other post was long enough anyway, and if a Mod decides this post is too far OT, he can delete it without losing the other content which was on topic.

 

* When the sub is used in conjunction with a dedicated sub output from an amplifier.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zed Zed
Clarification

[muon*]

...............

Edited July 23, 2021 by muon*

[Lam Pham]

16 hours ago, Zed Zed said:

It's just something else to think about. Read up on Rel sub-systems for more info, or PM me here as this is getting OT for this thread. I have posted this separately because the other post was long enough anyway, and if a Mod decides this post is too far OT, he can delete it without losing the other content which was on topic.

Zed Zed said:

It's just something else to think about. Read up on Rel sub-systems for more info, or PM me here as this is getting OT for this thread. I have posted this separately because the other post was long enough anyway, and if a Mod decides this post is too far OT, he can delete it without losing the other content which was on topic.

 



Thanks you so much for spending a lot of time and audio experience to help me to choose the speakers (work with R8).

 

 

You read my mind with room size matter as 4mx5m is quite small. I ve read quite a lot discussion of fyne f502 and seems that they have rather strong bass for my room, I thinks of F501 instead.

 

The standmounts and sub may be safer option as i dont think the dealer here have 3 months trial.

 

It really is getting OT here so I all PM you,

 

Again thanks for your help and support.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Lam Pham

[Zed Zed]

On 20/03/2021 at 9:11 AM, Lam Pham said:

Zed Zed said:

It's just something else to think about. Read up on Rel sub-systems for more info, or PM me here as this is getting OT for this thread. I have posted this separately because the other post was long enough anyway, and if a Mod decides this post is too far OT, he can delete it without losing the other content which was on topic.

 



Thanks you so much for spending a lot of time and audio experience to help me to choose the speakers (work with R8).

 

 

You read my mind with room size matter as 4mx5m is quite small. I ve read quite a lot discussion of fyne f502 and seems that they have rather strong bass for my room, I thinks of F501 instead.

 

The standmounts and sub may be safer option as i dont think the dealer here have 3 months trial.

 

It really is getting OT here so I all PM you,

 

Again thanks for your help and support.

 

 

PM sent.

[Zed Zed]

@Lam Pham

 

Lam - be sure to try hooking up your new speakers to the 4 ohm taps on the R8 as well as to as an alternative to the 8 ohm taps. You may find that the 4 ohm taps give you a nicer sound in the mids and HF, with more controlled bass as well. It will do no harm to your amplifier or to your speakers and you may prefer, as I do, the sound via the 4 ohm taps. One downside is that you will get a little less power from the amp if you use the 4 ohm taps with 8 ohm speakers, but that isn't a problem here as I never need to advance the volume control beyond the 12 o'clock position for the listening levels I want. Try it and see how it goes - it's free!

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Zed Zed
Clarification

[Candan]

On 11/03/2021 at 10:49 AM, Candan said:

They appear to have disappeared! 

 

 

They appear to have appeared (coincidentally!)  

 

 

These have the ART branding from Tung Sol.  Rectangular top mica and dark brown base.   No reason to suspect they're not what they say on the tin.  But would be nice if a resident expert could validate.  They were bought as NOS, but I'm not sure if there's any real way to tell if they've got hours on them.  

 

They're a bit grubby, suggesting they're older than me.  But they didn't show up in a carton, which is a little disappointing.  Just bubble wrapped.  So no real idea of date, except they're said to be around 1945 production.

 

Just popped them in and it's time to give them a spin!

 

[muon*]

................

Edited July 23, 2021 by muon*

[Lam Pham]

13 hours ago, Zed Zed said:

@Lam Pham

 

Lam - be sure to try hooking up your new speakers to the 4 ohm taps on the R8 as well as to as an alternative to the 8 ohm taps. You may find that the 4 ohm taps give you a nicer sound in the mids and HF, with more controlled bass as well. It will do no harm to your amplifier or to your speakers and you may prefer, as I do, the sound via the 4 ohm taps. One downside is that you will get a little less power from the amp if you use the 4 ohm taps with 8 ohm speakers, but that isn't a problem here as I never need to advance the volume control beyond the 12 o'clock position for the listening levels I want. Try it and see how it goes - it's free!

 

 

 

Thanks Zed, i am following your and others earlier posts of 4 ohm taps and being on the 4ohm taps setting up the new SPs. Your recommended Fyne Audio F501 speakers and R8 are perfect combination. (still breaking in) 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Lam Pham

[xlr8or]

11 hours ago, muon* said:

Calling Dr Kirk @xlr8or

 

If they look like these and have round plates with a brown micanol base instead of the black micanol base then welcome to the pleasuredome. I guess we won't be seeing you around here for a few months.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-NIB-TUNG-SOL-6SL7GT-ROUND-PLATE-BLACK-GLASS-PAIRS-AVAILABLE/184663191850

Edited March 24, 2021 by xlr8or

[Zed Zed]

Yay! My replacement Melz 6SL7 tubes have arrived! Perfect matched pair. Installed half an hour ago - blown way again, just as I was before (and they still have to run in of course so may get even better). The other good news is that this pair are totally silent!  Immediately notice the smooth-as-silk mids. Great separation too, and a lovely transient attack when called for. Further report once they have some hours on them.

 

My Darth Vader Tung Sols are still in transit. They will have to go some to beat these Melz!

[Lam Pham]

41 minutes ago, Zed Zed said:

Yay! My replacement Melz 6SL7 tubes have arrived! Perfect matched pair. Installed half an hour ago - blown way again, just as I was before (and they still have to run in of course so may get even better). The other good news is that this pair are totally silent!  Immediately notice the smooth-as-silk mids. Great separation too, and a lovely transient attack when called for. Further report once they have some hours on them.

 

My Darth Vader Tung Sols are still in transit. They will have to go some to beat these Melz!

Congrats. Getting the Melz 6SL7s without hiss/hum and balanced is a luck of you.

[Candan]

15 hours ago, xlr8or said:

 

If they look like these and have round plates with a brown micanol base instead of the black micanol base then welcome to the pleasuredome. I guess we won't be seeing you around here for a few months.

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-NIB-TUNG-SOL-6SL7GT-ROUND-PLATE-BLACK-GLASS-PAIRS-AVAILABLE/184663191850

 

Round plate! 

 

I rolled my NOS Brimars to put these NOS Tung Sol in.  The Brimars are so much better sounding than the stock Willsenton.   

 

These new ones have had about a 12 hour ride so far.  Truly amazing!  And an improvement over the Brimars.

 

More velvety than ever.  Extended bass, beautifully smooth mids and crisp highs, without harshness!  

 

Dominique Fils-Aime "Birds" has just sent a shiver down my spine.  The attack and decay in and out of the complete blackness of this track is outstanding.

 

Thanks for the buy recommendation @xlr8or .   Loving them!

Edited March 24, 2021 by Candan

[Tube challenged]

1 hour ago, Candan said:

 

Round plate! 

 

I rolled my NOS Brimars to put these NOS Tung Sol in.  The Brimars are so much better sounding than the stock Willsenton.   

 

These new ones have had about a 12 hour ride so far.  Truly amazing!  And an improvement over the Brimars.

 

More velvety than ever.  Extended bass, beautifully smooth mids and crisp highs, without harshness!  

 

Dominique Fils-Aime "Birds" has just sent a shiver down my spine.  The attack and decay in and out of the complete blackness of this track is outstanding.

 

Thanks for the buy recommendation @xlr8or .   Loving them!

WOW!  AUD370 for the pair! Looks like Melz 6SL7 and 6SN7 for the poor cousin here.  Glad to see you love them and they make a difference to the R8. I hope to have mine in the next 2 weeks. The wait is excruciating.      

Edited March 24, 2021 by Tube challenged

[Zed Zed]

2 hours ago, Candan said:

 

 

More velvety than ever.  Extended bass, beautifully smooth mids and crisp highs, without harshness!  

 

That's the sort of thing I  am hearing from the Melz. Beautifully smooth mids and no HF harshness at all.  Liquid sound! I also love the amazing 'holographic' effect, which the Melz tubes seem to have improved noticeably. The singer has a very real, tangible presence in front of me and also seems to be a little more forward in the soundstage. I feel I could walk all the way around her (it's usually a 'her' for me). It's almost scary real sometimes.

 

2 hours ago, Candan said:

 

Dominique Fils-Aime "Birds" has just sent a shiver down my spine.  The attack and decay in and out of the complete blackness of this track is outstanding.

 

 

I love the texture on her voice on that track. And the way the double bass plays along to her singing.

 

I wonder how my Darth Vader Tung Sols will compare with the Melz when they arrive?

[Zed Zed]

1 hour ago, Tube challenged said:

WOW!  AUD370 for the pair! Looks like Melz 6SL7 and 6SN7 for the poor cousin here.  Glad to see you love them and they make a difference to the R8. I hope to have mine in the next 2 weeks. The wait is excruciating.      

 

Judging by my experience with the Melz 6SL7, you won't be disappointed. Obviously I haven't, unfortunately, had the pleasure of hearing @Candan's latest acquisition d they do sound as if they are marvellous, but the Melzs are no slouch and I bet you love them. I was a bit worried that my replacement pair wouldn't thrill me as much as the originals (until one went bad on me) but if anything the new pair are even better. And they are totally silent. I mean totally - even with my ear in the speaker and the MV turned to 'position normal'.

[Tube challenged]

2 hours ago, Zed Zed said:

 

Judging by my experience with the Melz 6SL7, you won't be disappointed. Obviously I haven't, unfortunately, had the pleasure of hearing @Candan's latest acquisition d they do sound as if they are marvellous, but the Melzs are no slouch and I bet you love them. I was a bit worried that my replacement pair wouldn't thrill me as much as the originals (until one went bad on me) but if anything the new pair are even better. And they are totally silent. I mean totally - even with my ear in the speaker and the MV turned to 'position normal'.

Thanks Zed. Sounds like I am standing looking at the rabbit hole.  

[Candan]

4 hours ago, Tube challenged said:

WOW!  AUD370 for the pair! Looks like Melz 6SL7 and 6SN7 for the poor cousin here.  Glad to see you love them and they make a difference to the R8. I hope to have mine in the next 2 weeks. The wait is excruciating.      

The set I bought was equivalent of $225 AUD delivered.  Happy camper right here!

 

NOS EL34 next.  I have Mullard reissue now.  I can't imagine this amp sounding any better.  Until it does.

[Candan]

3 hours ago, Zed Zed said:

 

Judging by my experience with the Melz 6SL7, you won't be disappointed. Obviously I haven't, unfortunately, had the pleasure of hearing @Candan's latest acquisition d they do sound as if they are marvellous, but the Melzs are no slouch and I bet you love them. 

Clearly cannot go wrong with either!

[echorec]

I've spent quite a bit of time with both the Melz and black glass Tung Sols on the R8.  They are my top two favorite 6SL7s for the R8. By comparison, my impressions in this amp are that the Tung Sols are warm and smooth with a slightly wider soundstage, and the Melz are open, airy, have more mid-range presence, and slightly more depth. It's just a matter of preference and music pairings. As previously mentioned, I have to be careful with the Melz as they can bring out the worst in anything that is less than well-recorded because they reveal more information in the recording, particularly in the upper mids. I prefer the Tung Sols for Jazz and classical, and the Melz for everything else. The Melz are definitely the more "exciting" of the two, and I find myself missing the Tung Sols after long sessions. Also, if you want a budget tube that sounds very close to the Tung Sols in the R8, try some NOS GE 6SL7GTs. They are so close in sound that I have a really hard time telling them apart. The Tung Sols slightly edge them out in the separation department, but their tone in the R8 is very similar.

Edited March 25, 2021 by echorec

[Jehuty]

22 minutes ago, echorec said:

I've spent quite a bit of time with both the Melz and black glass Tung Sols on the R8.  They are my top two favorite 6SL7s for the R8. By comparison, my impressions in this amp are that the Tung Sols are warm and smooth with a slightly wider soundstage, and the Melz are open, airy, have more mid-range presence, and slightly more depth. It's just a matter of preference and music pairings. As previously mentioned, I have to be careful with the Melz as they can bring out the worst in anything that is less than well-recorded because they reveal more information in the recording, particularly in the upper mids. I prefer the Tung Sols for Jazz and classical, and the Melz for everything else. The Melz are definitely the more "exciting" of the two, and I find myself missing the Tung Sols after long sessions. Also, if you want a budget tube that sounds very close to the Tung Sols in the R8, try some NOS GE 6SL7GTs. They are so close in sound that I have a really hard time telling them apart. The Tung Sols slightly edge them out in the separation department, but their tone in the R8 is very similar.

 

Which one has more timbre and body?