Willsenton R8 Owners & Discussion Thread

[echorec]

15 minutes ago, chinook9 said:

 

I would have to go with the R-300B model due to the weight.  Its 32Kg and I'm too old for heavy amps.  I have Tekton Electrons which are 92db efficient but at 4 ohms the 8 watts of the 300b might not do it so I'm thinking about the R8.  Everyone reports great success with the R8 and I think  I could  enjoy tube rolling the R8 and trying the KT88 and maybe 6550 tubes.  I have new production Mullard EL34s in R-35i.  It sounds great

 

Electrons!!! Man, I almost bought a used pair of those in August, but they were a very early pair that didn't have the tweeter array updates. Those or some DI's are on my list for 2021. The R8 and Electrons should pair VERY well. How do you like your Electrons?

[xlr8or]

2 hours ago, echorec said:

Thanks for the reco! A pair of ECC35's is one the short list. Either Mullards or Phillips Holland, though they are getting really pricey. Currently using TS black glass 6SU7GTY, which are my favorite so far. But I still feel like I want to relax those highs a tad more, hence the RCA Red Base for the next round.

 

Just confirming that the ECC35 was only made in the UK at the Mullard Blackburn plant. Philips and Adzam (Mazda backwards) are all relabelled from Blackburn.

 

The RCA 5691 red bases you are getting are quite analytical sounding in comparison. They are in a sense over militarised around achieving minimal microphonics and noise, and complement a very warm sounding system nicely.

Edited November 20, 2020 by xlr8or
Grammar

[echorec]

15 minutes ago, xlr8or said:

The RCA 5691 red bases you are getting are quite analytical sounding in comparison. They are in a sense over militarised around achieving minimal microphonics and noise, and compliment a very warm sounding system nicely.

 

hmmm. It's interesting because I've heard so many opposite or conflicting descriptors of the Red Base 5691 from people with lots of experience. Everything from "laid back, rolled off highs" to "forward, with great treble extension", but more so the former. I guess it is impossible to know for sure until I try it in this circuit with my own speakers.

[chinook9]

1 hour ago, echorec said:

 

Electrons!!! Man, I almost bought a used pair of those in August, but they were a very early pair that didn't have the tweeter array updates. Those or some DI's are on my list for 2021. The R8 and Electrons should pair VERY well. How do you like your Electrons?

 

I had high expectations given the reviews and they easily met my expectations.  I was lucky enough that when I called Tekton they had this one upgraded pair on sale.  I'm not too far from them so they were delivered  3 days later.  That was nice.  I had to wait a month for the R-35i to be built but then shipping was just 4 days.  the wait was worth it.

 

I like the Tektons so much I made some acoustic panels to try and get the most out of them.

[lotoboy21]

On 20/11/2020 at 11:37 AM, chinook9 said:

Been following this thread with interest. 

 

I have the Willsenton R-35i  and had been considering one of their 300B models.  The cost of 300B tubes has slowed me down however and I am now thinking about getting an R8 to play with.  Yong said in an e-mail yesterday that he can have a unit shipped 7 business days after I order it.  That sounded too good to me so I asked him for confirmation.  If he confirms, I will probably order a unit with the Willsenton KT88 tubes.  I'll then try some tube rolling with the 6SL7s and two of the 6SN7s.

If I were you, I would hold off on the R8 purchase. Moving from the R35i to the R8 is a sideway move, not an upgrade since the difference between those two is $100 (R8 with EL34 is $708, R35i w/o Bluetooth is $600). The coupling capacitors and transformers are probably the same quality. People told me that you only tell a (big) difference in sound if your upgrade is at least one step above, preferable 2 steps.

Wait for Thomas's review of the Doge 10. He already mentioned that it's one of his rare rave reviews, he likes it even better than the Cayin CS-55a. Their preamp, Doge 8, is well-received (google it), and the Doge 10 preamp stage is a variation of it (12ax7 and 12at7). The cost is about $1850 without tariff.

 

 

[chinook9]

2 hours ago, lotoboy21 said:

If I were you, I would hold off on the R8 purchase. Moving from the R35i to the R8 is a sideway move, not an upgrade since the difference between those two is $100 (R8 with EL34 is $708, R35i w/o Bluetooth is $600). The coupling capacitors and transformers are probably the same quality. People told me that you only tell a (big) difference in sound if your upgrade is at least one step above, preferable 2 steps.

Wait for Thomas's review of the Doge 10. He already mentioned that it's one of his rare rave reviews, he likes it even better than the Cayin CS-55a. Their preamp, Doge 8, is well-received (google it), and the Doge 10 preamp stage is a variation of it (12ax7 and 12at7). The cost is about $1850 without tariff.

 

 

 

Thank you lotoboy21.  I haven't pulled the trigger yet and I would prefer something more likely to be an upgrade. Haven't heard of the Doge 10, but I will be reading up on it later today.  Thank you.

[muon*]

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Edited July 22, 2021 by muon*

[chinook9]

That Doge 10  looks really nice, especially the ClarityCaps.  I have opened another thread for the Doge 10 so that this R8 thread does not get hijacked.

[Atmaj]

17 hours ago, muon* said:

As a tinkerer I'm not keen on the PCB style of the Doge 10, looks like the board would need to be lifted to do part changes to get at the other side.

I'm sure it sound nice though, and if a buyer has no inclination to make changes apart from tube rolling I guess all good.

 

 

 

Very true. It is a 2 sided pcb (PTH) hence will be more difficult to work with.  All the cables are soldered on the pcb rather than having connectors. It will be a risky task of upgrading caps on this for sure.

[chinook9]

30 minutes ago, Atmaj said:

Very true. It is a 2 sided pcb (PTH) hence will be more difficult to work with.  All the cables are soldered on the pcb rather than having connectors. It will be a risky task of upgrading caps on this for sure.

PCBs .like this are definitely more difficult t work with but I doubt that replacing ClarityCaps would be a high priority for me.

[muon*]

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Edited July 22, 2021 by muon*

[chinook9]

7 minutes ago, muon* said:

No idea what series those Clarity caps are, but they make from ordinary to good caps, no idea where those sit.

 

I prefer point to point construction personally, but that thing does have some interesting features if they appeal to the buyer.

 

The writeup on their website mentions that they are the coupling capacitors and are ClarityCap Esa.  They may be decent but not at all expensive as caps go. Not a big selling point but better than no name chinese caps.  Reviews of this amp use the old name, Prima Donna.

[Atmaj]

45 minutes ago, chinook9 said:

 

The writeup on their website mentions that they are the coupling capacitors and are ClarityCap Esa.  They may be decent but not at all expensive as caps go. Not a big selling point but better than no name chinese caps.  Reviews of this amp use the old name, Prima Donna.

I checked the website and this amp has everything "auto", lots of microprocessor controlled stuff, can switch between Class A and Class AB (which is a nice feature though). Complex PCB and layout where turing around the PCB  itself will be tricky task. Runs only on KT88 family so you loose all the mids magic of EL34 family.

 

If something goes wrong with this amp, it will be difficult to repair or may have to replace the whole pcb if control circuit has a fault. Lots of SMD components are there.

 

Sorry but not for me. I would love point to point wired amp and some flexibility to experiment. 

[Atmaj]

MIFLIEX caps arrived today with UPS express post. Gosh... they are big and heavy. Won't be able to fit on pcb for sure, will have to do some inventions for installing these.

 

[muon*]

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Edited July 22, 2021 by muon*

[muon*]

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Edited July 22, 2021 by muon*

[echorec]

The NOS Red Base 5691s arrived today. I was shocked at how heavy they are compared to other 6SL7s. They are definitely "overbuilt". Some first impressions after a couple hours using them with modern Tung Sol EL34Bs:

 

The first thing I immediately noticed was how much wider and taller the soundstage was. Holy cow! The stage extends ~10 inches beyond were it did before on my test tracks and feels taller. The highs are much softer compared to the TS 6SU7GTYs and the GE 6SL7GTs. They are so mellow that I feel like these may not be a good match for the TS EL34B, since that tube already has some softer highs, but we'll wait and see how things change over the next week. Everything sounds very big and lush, but I'm missing the extension of the higher frequencies with this combo. I'm thinking the 6CA7 and these Red Base could be a really good pairing for my speakers since the 6CA7 don't have rolled highs like the EL34Bs. The soundstage expansion is no joke though. I was really surprised in this regard. These might also be really nice with KT88s. I'll try that combo after I've had some more time using them with these EL34Bs. More in a week or so...

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by echorec

[08Boss302]

3 hours ago, echorec said:

The NOS Red Base 5691s arrived today. I was shocked at how heavy they are compared to other 6SL7s. They are definitely "overbuilt". Some first impressions after a couple hours using them with modern Tung Sol EL34Bs:

 

The first thing I immediately noticed was how much wider and taller the soundstage was. Holy cow! The stage extends ~10 inches beyond were it did before on my test tracks and feels taller. The highs are much softer compared to the TS 6SU7GTYs and the GE 6SL7GTs. They are so mellow that I feel like these may not be a good match for the TS EL34B, since that tube already has some softer highs, but we'll wait and see how things change over the next week. Everything sounds very big and lush, but I'm missing the extension of the higher frequencies with this combo. I'm thinking the 6CA7 and these Red Base could be a really good pairing for my speakers since the 6CA7 don't have rolled highs like the EL34Bs. The soundstage expansion is no joke though. I was really surprised in this regard. These might also be really nice with KT88s. I'll try that combo after I've had some more time using them with these EL34Bs. More in a week or so...

 

 

 

 

Nice write up, I am keen to get your thoughts how they pair up with KT88's once you try that configuration out!

[echorec]

Ok, now that I've spent about 50 hours with the RCAs, here's my assessment of the Tung Sol 6SU7GTY Black Glass compared to RCA Red Base 5691 when used in the R8 with Tung Sol EL34B power tubes. Keep in mind everything is relative and YMMV:

 

It really comes down to preference - If you like a bigger soundstage, with a more laid-back sound, then you'd probably like the RCAs. If you prefer a more-balanced, fuller sound, that has more soul, then you'd probably like the Tung Sols.

 

In this combination, I really liked the RCAs at first, but feel like their bigger soundstage comes at the expense of being a bit too thin and soft for me. The RCAs also have a bit less bass.

 

The Tung Sols just get everything right for me and sound more natural and balanced. Though the soundstage is smaller than the RCAs, it is not by any means small.

 

Next up is switching back to the KT88s. I haven't listened to them in months, so that will be interesting to see how all these NOS tubes interact with the KT88.

 

[Atmaj]

I have replaced Miflex caps in my amp. Currently breaking in and still need to add some resistors and shielding for the protection.

 

Million thanks to @muon* for his great and thorough support in doing this. Will post pictures and review once it is completely done.

 

Watch this space 

[echorec]

@Atmaj I'm really excited to hear your impressions of these caps!

 

I popped the KT88s back in last night. My first thought was - dang, I miss the EL34Bs... KT88s have nice oomph and energy, but sound too dry for me and remind me more of what I think as solid state sound. I really miss the 3D midrange of the EL34B. IMO, the KT88s don't sound great in triode mode vs. the EL34Bs which sound incredible in triode mode. In triode the soundstage loses depth with the KT88 and becomes very flat. Perhaps, all a matter of preference and system synergy though. But it's nice to confirm that I do prefer the EL34 sound in the R8 and that it was not my imagination when I first installed them months ago. I'll still roll the NOS preamps with the KT88s this week and see what happens.

Edited December 1, 2020 by echorec

[Atmaj]

1 hour ago, echorec said:

@Atmaj I'm really excited to hear your impressions of these caps!

 

I popped the KT88s back in last night. My first thought was - dang, I miss the EL34Bs... KT88s have nice oomph and energy, but sound too dry for me and remind me more of what I think as solid state sound. I really miss the 3D midrange of the EL34B. IMO, the KT88s don't sound great in triode mode vs. the EL34Bs which sound incredible in triode mode. In triode the soundstage loses depth with the KT88 and becomes very flat. Perhaps, all a matter of preference and system synergy though. But it's nice to confirm that I do prefer the EL34 sound in the R8 and that it was not my imagination when I first installed them months ago. I'll still roll the NOS preamps with the KT88s this week and see what happens.

Yeah, same experience with me. After listening to 6CA7 for few weeks I installed KT88 to see how different it sounds and felt the same thing. Put back 6CA7 within half an hour.

 

[Candan]

Morning / Evening all.  

 

Totally new to the forum and joined as well as purchased the Willsenton R8, as my first tube amp, because of this thread.  So it's on you lot if it doesn't work out for me! 

 

I'm quite confused about the advice for tube rolling, and which to roll.  

 

For the 6SN7 in the V5 middle front position.  Preamp Power supply filtering tube.  Some say it doesn't need to be rolled, others say it's the most important.  Which is it?

 

Should I then be rolling the other 2 6SN7 tubes in driver stage, or the 2 6SL7 tubes in the voltage amp stage?

 

I don't mind doing all of them, but I'd like a starting point.  

 

I'll be ordering more tubes before I receive my unit ordered with stock tubes.

 

Thanks

 

[echorec]

39 minutes ago, Candan said:

For the 6SN7 in the V5 middle front position.  Preamp Power supply filtering tube.  Some say it doesn't need to be rolled, others say it's the most important.  Which is it?

 

Should I then be rolling the other 2 6SN7 tubes in driver stage, or the 2 6SL7 tubes in the voltage amp stage?

 

Congrats on becoming an R8 enthusiast!

 

The two 6SL7s are the tubes to focus on with the R8, as they will have the biggest impact on sound. The middle tube will have no impact on sound, IMO (I could hear no change). Changing the outer 6SN7s was a VERY subtle for me, but I found myself questioning if I was hearing truly a difference. So, focus on the two 6SL7s and, if you're feeling adventurous, you can try the others. It can be very subjective and system dependent too. In general, the more revealing your system is, the more likely you are to hear the nuances and reap the benefits of different tubes.

 

Down the rabbit hole!

 

Edit: also forgot to say - Listen to your R8 with stocks tubes for several weeks first! There is a break in period with the amp where things smooth out. Then you will have an idea of the R8's "stock" sound.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by echorec

[Candan]

36 minutes ago, echorec said:

 

Congrats on becoming an R8 enthusiast!

 

The two 6SL7s are the tubes to focus on with the R8, as they will have the biggest impact on sound. The middle tube will have no impact on sound, IMO (I could hear no change). Changing the outer 6SN7s was a VERY subtle for me, but I found myself questioning if I was hearing truly a difference. So, focus on the two 6SL7s and, if you're feeling adventurous, you can try the others. It can be very subjective and system dependent too. In general, the more revealing your system is, the more likely you are to hear the nuances and reap the benefits of different tubes.

 

Down the rabbit hole!

 

Edit: also forgot to say - Listen to your R8 with stocks tubes for several weeks first! There is a break in period with the amp where things smooth out. Then you will have an idea of the R8's "stock" sound.

 

Thanks a ton Echorec!  Very helpful info to get me started.  Just the answers I needed!  

 

Once I get the amp (still about 30 days away I guess) I'll report my findings from stock after a hundred hours of burn in or so.  Then I'll look to start rolling the 6SL7s.  

 

It is interesting that when I look at the China Hifi site where I bought it, it's suggesting the purchase upgrades on the preamp side are the 6SN7s upgrades, and keeps the Willsenton 6SL7s.  Which about-faces what you and just about everyone else is saying LOL.   Yong Lee at China Hifi emailed me to say to switch the 6SN7s, but also admitted "he thinks"