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Thoughts on the new Dune movie ?


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Already the web is ablaze with the new dune trailer  and people claiming it to be bigger than Ben hur and the next big franchise ? 

 

But i I wonder who is actually going to see it. 

 

The  old movie ( if anybody remembers it)  was hardly a roaring success , does any body especially the younger generation read the Dune books? Did anybody watch children of dune? 

 

Block buster or cult movie ? 

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It's a shame Jodorowsky's version was never realised.  With art design by HR Giger and Moebius it would have been a trip.    

I didn't even watch it. Half the youtube today seems to be someone or other 'reacting' to something or other.   Soon even the news will be "A politician /sportsperson /actor reacts to the /b

Same here. That woman is incredibly annoying, like people who insist on chattering though a movie in the cinema when you just wish they would shut up!   Yeah, the trailer is nothing special,

I saw the teaser trailer last night at Tenet, but not the newly released one. But I couldnt be more excited for this movie. Great cast and a director who clearly likes to do things his own way.

 

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I'm excited for it. Love the books. And personally I love the Lynch movie. It stylistically nails it, and visually still good up.  Sure it diverged but I don't feel that precious about adaptations. The miniseries were ok but so low quality visually when I saw it it was tough. I see they have Blu Ray releases now, and I'd like to revisit if there are decent transfers.

 

The books are fantastic, and I'd honestly recommend at least reading to the Hunters/Sandworms by Herbert Jr and Anderson. It finishes off the whole Duncan Idaho story nicely. You didn't really realize in Dune (movie or book) that he was the main character of the whole arc.

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WOW .... didn't know there was a new one coming ...... the books are FANTASTIC and I must say I have been somewhat disappointed with the previous films ..... nice tip Mobe1969 about the Duncan Idaho story ..... will follow up.

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Dune & A Quiet Place 2 are probably the only films I’m looking forward to this year.

 

One description of Dune got me interested - that it’s aimed to be the Star Wars for today that we should’ve gotten...Not that i’m rubbishing the new SW trilogy...

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Never read the books, but I liked the original movie back when released. I'll have to check out this trailer and will likely see the movie at some point.

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I’m a huge fan of the books and the first movie of the first book wasn’t too bad. 

 

I don’t get too excited about many movies these days but this one might pique my interest.  It’d be great if they covered the whole first trilogy in a series of movies like they did with the Lord of the Rings. 

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Frank Herbert sadly died too early of cancer and the 7th novel never had his Imprimatur on it, I'm not even sure his son(Brian) finished it.

But I'll be interested to see how this new movie deals with a very political book,a series of books that if  they managed to see the light of day today...would be  derided as green leftist nonsense and scaremongering.

 

Many people think of  Sci-Fi as escapist fodder folded into the fantasy genre and perhaps they're right. Herbert's Dune pre-dates Stars Wars and Star Trek and so many other  SF/Fantasy sub genre's of today's world(gaming, SF series that use his plot style(George Lucas is a liar if he says it didn't influence him)

 

The books and let it be said that the first large book and it's slimmer follow up(Dune, Children of Dune) encapsulate one of the finest imaginings of a world and a political system and a religion that your likely to find anywhere. The next four books were just pulpits for the author to expand his views.

 

Listen to him here>>

 

The book (Dune) is summed up well here ;

"An epic of political betrayal, ecological brinkmanship, and messianic deliverance... a universe of Machiavellian realpolitik, science fiction through the prism of the Cold War. There is little that is cute or cuddly: no furry-footed Hobbits, no teddy-bear-like Ewoks... This is terrain that is familiar to readers of George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire." Herbert's scheming, backstabbing villain, the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, would be perfectly at home among the Lannisters of Westeros."

 

Written long before Martin's long series and also written in the 60's by a child of the 30's who tasted the Depression and the world war of 39/45 and then the Cold War, his books like many of his peers reflected the spirit of the 60's.

 

Just how the new movie will be appraised, how it will be viewed is up in the air, who knows.

 

An adaptation is always a lesser portrait of a book and quite often it's a case of a director and a producer waving the white flag and saying; We can't reproduce the pathos, we can't reproduce the depth of character in the book but we can enliven it and make it palatable for the movie going public.

 

Does the essence of the book get lost in this movie, the author's raison d'etre? Probably but we'll see wont we.

 

One more insight into  of Frank Herbert.

 

 

 

Just before the release of David Lynch's odd vision of the books.

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I was born in the early 80s and know nothing about Dune the novel nor the original movie.  I only clicked on the news this morning thinking they are talking about new Avatar 2.  LOL.  Then I quickly closed the browser because it did not interest me.  Now that I know it is supposed to be famous, I will try to google about it.

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23 minutes ago, Luc said:

Frank Herbert sadly died too early of cancer and the 7th novel never had his Imprimatur on it, I'm not even sure his son(Brian) finished it.

But I'll be interested to see how this new movie deals with a very political book,a series of books that if  they managed to see the light of day today...would be  derided as green leftist nonsense and scaremongering.

 

Many people think of  Sci-Fi as escapist fodder folded into the fantasy genre and perhaps they're right. Herbert's Dune pre-dates Stars Wars and Star Trek and so many other  SF/Fantasy sub genre's of today's world(gaming, SF series that use his plot style(George Lucas is a liar if he says it didn't influence him)

 

The books and let it be said that the first large book and it's slimmer follow up(Dune, Children of Dune) encapsulate one of the finest imaginings of a world and a political system and a religion that your likely to find anywhere. The next four books were just pulpits for the author to expand his views.

 

Listen to him here>>

 

The book (Dune) is summed up well here ;

"An epic of political betrayal, ecological brinkmanship, and messianic deliverance... a universe of Machiavellian realpolitik, science fiction through the prism of the Cold War. There is little that is cute or cuddly: no furry-footed Hobbits, no teddy-bear-like Ewoks... This is terrain that is familiar to readers of George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire." Herbert's scheming, backstabbing villain, the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, would be perfectly at home among the Lannisters of Westeros."

 

Written long before Martin's long series and also written in the 60's by a child of the 30's who tasted the Depression and the world war of 39/45 and then the Cold War, his books like many of his peers reflected the spirit of the 60's.

 

Just how the new movie will be appraised, how it will be viewed is up in the air, who knows.

 

An adaptation is always a lesser portrait of a book and quite often it's a case of a director and a producer waving the white flag and saying; We can't reproduce the pathos, we can't reproduce the depth of character in the book but we can enliven it and make it palatable for the movie going public.

 

Does the essence of the book get lost in this movie, the author's raison d'etre? Probably but we'll see wont we.

 

One more insight into  of Frank Herbert.

 

 

 

Just before the release of David Lynch's odd vision of the books.

Just to reiterate, I would not overlook the post mortem Hunters and Sandworms of Dune books. I really enjoyed them and felt a better sense of closure/ appreciation of the entire series. Back in the 80s reading Chapterhouse,  Heretics, etc, I really loved the whole Duncan Idaho storyline, the awakening, and felt the last two books completed it.

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1 minute ago, Mobe1969 said:

and felt the last two books completed it.

We all have different opinions and different views and we all take what we want or need from books. I was happy with with the first two books and felt the others were just padding.

 

But I hate the LOTR movies with a passion so I've got form on movie adaptations that don't follow the original story.

I'm looking forward to this movie, I hope it does for Frank Herbert what John Carter did for Edgar Rice Burroughs but...bigger!😎

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I didn't think Herbert's  subsequent books could touch Dune but will reread them all before seeing the movie (which does look good).  Actually hadn't read Hunters and Sandworms of Dune so that could be a treat as Duncan Idaho was a great character . 

 

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I also remember someone trying to write a prequel series to Dune but it wasn’t written by Frank and I just couldn’t get into it.

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I must confess I have not read any of the books nor know anything about the world building. So from a non-fan perspective what should we expect from this film adaptation? Is there a danger that given the screen time constraint the elements that do make it into the film could come across as generic? Unfortunately for me the trailer did looked generic.

 

Thinking about what is needed for a successful adaptation, the characters have to be really engaging, especially hard for non-fans. This comes down to casting. Fortunately the word is that this film has a great cast, so there is hope yet. 

 

 

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The original Dune novel was 528 pages so any film adaptation is going to leave out lots. The novel is definitely worth a read, and not just as the start of a multi-book series (about 10 or 12 now, depending on what you count). 

 

So, IMO, accuracy to the book is secondary to whether the film is actually good. I'll just wait and see.

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Yeah, successful adaptations. Hard to quantify. For a single standalone shortish book, say Ready Player One, I guess it is faithfully reproducing it. For something more sprawling or epic, it isn't as simple. I personally feel like it is capturing the key parts, the pivotal sections of the novel, and the key emotional core. In my mind the IT miniseries did it perfectly. The IT movies were not. They missed the heart of the novel in so many places. Dune, the Lynch one, captured it beautifully. And design wise was incredible.

 

One that I'd say was excellent was Cloud Atlas. Wouldn't have thought it possible.

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Just looking at the trailer, I'd say Denis Villeneuve intends to make DUNE have a similar look and atmosphere very much like he did ARRIVAL, very monochromatic and cerebral.

 

He has stated that this 2020 movie will be the first half of the story, and that he refused to take the project on unless he could make it in two parts.

 

I imagine what is a dark and brooding highly complex story to not be a huge box office hit, but will make it's money back from streaming and disc sales.

None of the cast are huge box office names, and I imagine that the special effects used in the movie will be used sparingly, and of a more subtle nature than your usually Hollywood holiday blockbuster.

This will be a movie for those that think PLOT , SCRIPT, CINEMATOGRAPHY and ACTING make a great movie.

It will be a pleasant change, and boy don't we need it ?

Edited by Tweaky
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I set out to read the original Dune trilogy many years ago now, but must admit I struggled with it. While I appreciated and enjoyed the epic nature and intrigues of the plot, I just found the writing style of the novels very hard to take. There seem to be interminably long passages devoted to 'what ifs' and endless speculation about what may happen if this or that happens, with no resolution. And at the end of these passages, nothing has happened, and the plot has not progressed one bit. The novels seem to be mostly comprised of this sort of thing, with very little devoted to actually moving the story forward.

 

I wanted to enjoy this story, but the whole thing just wore me down in the end. I read the first novel right through, but just faded after that. I think I gave up part way through the second novel.

 

Having said that, I sort of enjoyed the 1984 Dune movie, but I don't think it really did the story justice. It is a complex story, and one that I think would be difficult to adapt adequately to the big screen, but not insurmountable. It will be interesting to see how the 2020 version stacks up.

 

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2 hours ago, Tweaky said:

Just looking at the trailer, I'd say Denis Villeneuve intends to make DUNE have a similar look and atmosphere very much like he did ARRIVAL, very monochromatic and cerebral.

 

He has stated that this 2020 movie will be the first half of the story, and that he refused to take the project on unless he could make it in two parts.

 

I imagine what is a dark and brooding highly complex story to not be a huge box office hit, but will make it's money back from streaming and disc sales.

None of the cast are huge box office names, and I imagine that the special effects used in the movie will be used sparingly, and of a more subtle nature than your usually Hollywood holiday blockbuster.

This will be a movie for those that think PLOT , SCRIPT, CINEMATOGRAPHY and ACTING make a great movie.

It will be a pleasant change, and boy don't we need it ?

You're assuming an awful lot  🤔

 

And and a danger could be it flops, but let's hope not 

 

But yes I enjoyed arrival and bladerunner 2049  (which the dune trailers reminds me a lot of , but perhaps that's being captain obvious. 

 

Ps did anybody enjoy playing the Dune  2 and dune 2000 RTS computer games. 🤖

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9 hours ago, cafe67 said:

You're assuming an awful lot  🤔

 

And and a danger could be it flops, but let's hope not 

 

But yes I enjoyed arrival and bladerunner 2049  (which the dune trailers reminds me a lot of , but perhaps that's being captain obvious. 

 

Ps did anybody enjoy playing the Dune  2 and dune 2000 RTS computer games. 🤖

They may be assumptions, but they are based on watching his last two movies and the DUNE trailer.

 

TBH I'm expecting it to flop at the BO, as it's the total opposite to the mindless ''Çookie Cutter'' SciFi / Superhero movies we have been plied with over the last decade, but admittedly, have put bums on seats in the school holiday period.

 

School kids watching this whilst on holidays at a theater  will get restless and bored, and probably start mucking about, as it will be far to dialog driven to hold their attention.

 

I'm SO GLAD Disney has had nothing to do with this production after the absolute travesty of the last few Star Wars movies, what a way to end probably the most followed movie franchise in history.

 

I think this version of DUNE will be a sleeper, and end up being appreciated in many years to come when we are watching a upscaled remastered to 16k version at home [Now that's an  assumption 😉 ]

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21 hours ago, Rocketfrogs said:

It's a shame Jodorowsky's version was never realised.  With art design by HR Giger and Moebius it would have been a trip.

 

 

Saw this doco at Melbourne film festival a couple of years back. Highly recommended!

https://miff.com.au/festival-archive/films/id/25224

 

JODOROWSKY'S DUNE (2013) [feature]

(MIFF 2014 )
Director: Frank Pavich
"Opens a window onto an unexplored world that almost was, a world that … altered the course of pop-culture history without ever existing on its own terms." – Salon

In 1974, Alejandro Jodorowsky was riding high off the cult hits El Topo and The Holy Mountain. His next project was to be an adaptation of Frank Herbert's seminal science fiction novel Dune, and the notorious filmmaker had big plans: it would star the likes of Mick Jagger, Salvador Dalí and Orson Welles, feature designs by Mœbius and HR Giger, and give the audience the feeling of being on LSD regardless of whether they'd even taken it.

It was one of the most ambitious film projects of all time, and now only exists in storyboards and Jodorowsky's own anecdotes. The story of how this film never came to be forms the basis of Frank Pavich's extraordinary film, and fills in the blanks on one of the greatest ever pieces of cinematic lore.

"A beautiful celebration of creative madness and the pursuit of a vision in the face of impossible obstacles. It's hilarious and strange and very, very trippy." – io9 >

 

http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/

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I watched the new trailer this morning and was surprised by how close many of Villeneuve's scenes are to Lynch's, especially the testing by Mohiam. It has great potential, but so did Lynch...

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11 hours ago, Tweaky said:

They may be assumptions, but they are based on watching his last two movies and the DUNE trailer.

 

TBH I'm expecting it to flop at the BO, as it's the total opposite to the mindless ''Çookie Cutter'' SciFi / Superhero movies we have been plied with over the last decade, but admittedly, have put bums on seats in the school holiday period.

 

School kids watching this whilst on holidays at a theater  will get restless and bored, and probably start mucking about, as it will be far to dialog driven to hold their attention.

 

I'm SO GLAD Disney has had nothing to do with this production after the absolute travesty of the last few Star Wars movies, what a way to end probably the most followed movie franchise in history.

 

I think this version of DUNE will be a sleeper, and end up being appreciated in many years to come when we are watching a upscaled remastered to 16k version at home [Now that's an  assumption 😉 ]

I think your post partly addresses my questions earlier. The premise is this - Dune predates the modern era of SciFi/superhero movies, e.g. Star Wars. Therefore by now most, if not all, of the elements that could be translated into exciting film for the popcorn audience would have been done, multiple times even. Simply repeating those elements just to produce a marketable movie blockbuster would definitely come across as generic.

 

So what is leftover, the other elements that could make the film feel fresh, are probably the 'boring' bits. What you described is most likely that end result. 

 

The other part of my question is this - how to avoid this trap? How to produce an engaging adaption and yet still feel fresh at the same time? This is very hard for the non-fans. 

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8 hours ago, LHC said:

I think your post partly addresses my questions earlier. The premise is this - Dune predates the modern era of SciFi/superhero movies, e.g. Star Wars. Therefore by now most, if not all, of the elements that could be translated into exciting film for the popcorn audience would have been done, multiple times even. Simply repeating those elements just to produce a marketable movie blockbuster would definitely come across as generic.

 

So what is leftover, the other elements that could make the film feel fresh, are probably the 'boring' bits. What you described is most likely that end result. 

 

The other part of my question is this - how to avoid this trap? How to produce an engaging adaption and yet still feel fresh at the same time? This is very hard for the non-fans. 

Well you can't really ''Jazz it up'' so to speak, it's a complex story, mainly because so much time is needed to explain the main factions of the story, regarding who they are and how they are destined to interact with each other.

It's not something you can omit, nor hurry, otherwise the movie just wouldn't make sense.

 

I suppose if you really wanted to take DUNE to places it has never been before [and God forbid, as it honestly shouldn't, I'm just using this as a bizarre example] would be to do a treatment of the whole story much like Baz  Lurhmann did Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet, but for today's audience would probably need to use Rap artists 💩 a highly disturbing thought I know.

 

That would sink deeper and cost more lives than the Kursk Submarine disaster if anybody was stupid enough to make it, but you couldn't deny it was different.

 

NO, I think the story itself and it's various settings, which are richly described in the book , so can't really be changed, limits what you can do.

The movie has a $200 million budget, which is a pittance by Hollywood standards, and when you see the countries that were involved with it's production, you can imagine some tasty tax exempts and other enticements were used to have the movie made where it has been.

 

The production of this vision of DUNE is 90% European, where they have a real history of Emperors, Dukes, Religious sects and understand the long standing power struggles between family Houses.

I think subconsciously this movie is being made to regain that individuality to a extent since the emergence of a unified Europe,

 

Buy holding the story and ambience of the book so true, they must know that that it won't do great at the box office, but TBH I think the considered monetary success bar for this movie has been set as Break Even, it's been made more for the various countries and production crews involved to be kept active and employed.

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This reviewer thinks the cast is great. She even got emotional watching the trailer. Zendaya is a noted singer but not a rap artist. 

 

 

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On 14/09/2020 at 4:33 PM, Mr_Gimlet said:

It has great potential, but so did Lynch...

Lynch didn't have full creative control of the film which precipitated a very uneven film. I love the work of Lynch however cannot bring myself to watch his Dune in one sitting. Although as it is it has many good aspects - it would have been a much better movie if it were truly and solely Lunch's creation.

 

That said, the truly unfortunate aspect is the fact that Jodorowsky's Dune never got made - although the concepts within its story board influenced  so many later films (Bladerunner, Star Wars, Alien, Prometheus....).

 

Very much looking forward to the new film. However if they have attempted to appeal to and please the largest cross section of viewers (as in 3 y.o. to 103 y.o. - which routinely happens these days) the outcome will be mediocre to decent at best. I reserve my judgement until I actually see the film and kudos to Villaneuve for actually getting the damn thing done.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Batty said:

She is a bit OTT.

I didn't even watch it. Half the youtube today seems to be someone or other 'reacting' to something or other.

 

Soon even the news will be "A politician /sportsperson /actor reacts to the /bushfires /floods /violence......"

 

It seems to be the new porn.

 

Just my 2c worth. YMMV.

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2 hours ago, Batty said:

She is a bit OTT.

I agree, especially since I thought the trailer was pretty generic and nothing to get excited about. Her view that the cast is great is worth noting, a view shared by other reviewers. 

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On 16/09/2020 at 8:57 AM, LHC said:

I agree, especially since I thought the trailer was pretty generic and nothing to get excited about. Her view that the cast is great is worth noting, a view shared by other reviewers. 

Same here. That woman is incredibly annoying, like people who insist on chattering though a movie in the cinema when you just wish they would shut up!

 

Yeah, the trailer is nothing special, not sure about the idea of using Pink Floyd's music though, not convinced that it is a very good fit for this movie. I am interested in seeing this new version of the film, just a bit concerned they might focus too much on the spectacle, special effects and fight scenes at the expense of plot development.

 

I have a copy of the 1984 version of Dune on DVD. Mine is a 3 hour 'Alan Smithee' cut, apparently a pseudonym used by directors who don't want to be associated with the film. The notes on the back of the case say that David Lynch had his credits as director removed from this release due to his objections to a prologue that was added.

 

Haven't watched it in a long while. Might give it another spin when I have a spare 3 hours.

 

 

Late update: I sat down and watched my DVD copy recently. Man, what a dreadful transfer, last time I played it was on my old CRT TV, but it looks awful on my current Panasonic LCD. Aspect ratio is wrong, clumsy jump edits between scenes, no 5.1 audio, crap! Has all the hallmarks of a cheap low quality knock off. I can see why it was credited to the fictional 'Alan Smithee' (if there is a real person out there somewhere with that name he must be getting really p****d off with being blamed for stuff like this.) I might as well get hold of a blu-ray copy, couldn't be worse than this.

 

Edited by emesbee
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12 hours ago, emesbee said:

I am interested in seeing this new version of the film, just a bit concerned they might focus too much on the spectacle, special effects and fight scenes at the expense of plot development.

They need to make some money - the huge risk is described by this article here: https://screenrant.com/dune-2020-movie-box-office-bomb-failure-success/

 

If Dune's $200 million budget is true, by the usual rule-of-thumb they must make $400 million at the box office to break even. For comparison Blade Runner 2049 earned just $259 million on a budget of between $155-$185 million, i.e. they lost money. The Arrival did better because it had a very cheap budget (and Amy Adam was great). 

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On 14/09/2020 at 3:03 PM, Mr_Gimlet said:

I watched the new trailer this morning and was surprised by how close many of Villeneuve's scenes are to Lynch's, especially the testing by Mohiam. It has great potential, but so did Lynch...

 

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