Entry Level DAC purchasing advice

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks very much @firedog. The Topping has certainly come up a number of times now, so under serious consideration.

Thanks for the Schiit recommendation too. I have their Mani phono preamp and think it’s great. I’ve seen their DACs mentioned a few times online too as good options so might be worth a look too.

[danrey 36]

10 minutes ago, Sterg237 said:

The Topping has certainly come up a number of times now, so under serious consideration.

 

For what it's worth, I've been down the rabbit hole of changing dacs thinking they make a difference. Tried Chord Hugo/Mojo, Metrum Acoustics NOS, AudioGD R2R, Aune. The Metrum was the only one that was obviously audibly different, but sometimes better, sometimes worse.

 

Now i'm just happy with the topping E30 which sounds great + bargain price.  

 

If you have lots glass, hard floors, you may be hearing the room rather than your system. So perhaps, try the best you can with the room first, then if still a problem, perhaps try some speakers when you can get back out to dealers. 

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks @danrey, that is helpful advice. Geez the Topping is coming up pretty regularly, it’s going to be hard to go past that with all the recommendations for it today.

 

TT, speakers and amp are all things I will look to change out in the next few months.

[danrey 36]

4 minutes ago, Sterg237 said:

Geez the Topping is coming up pretty regularly

 

It's sounds great, but at the risk of sounding like a salesman for it, also has some features like digital pre-amp mode (can plug it into power amps/powered speakers), remote control, changeable filters, aluminium case, auto power off/on, usb/coax/toslink inputs, small size and looks reasonably good. It's hard to beat for the price, and the type of device you can put into a secondary use elsewhere if you ever upgrade.

[Ittaku 4,357]

2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Yes, at.  I just use the default setting (setting #3, I believe).

 

Is there any advantage to using different settings across them?

(btw, E30 #1 // E30 #2 handle sub/bass//mid/ribbon on the R channel and E30 #3 // E30 #4 handle sub/bass//mid/ribbon on the L channel.)

 

Andy

 

At 96kHz where you run them, it will likely make no audible difference whatsoever which filter you choose, and on principle alone, I'd recommend their default choice.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Ittaku

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks @danrey, certainly ticks a lot of boxes for me!

[Ittaku 4,357]

14 minutes ago, Sterg237 said:

Geez the Topping is coming up pretty regularly, it’s going to be hard to go past that with all the recommendations for it today.

That's because they've proven you can topple the giants of the past at a fraction of their cost today through quality engineering alone that doesn't come at an exorbitant cost.

[andyr 5,717]

1 hour ago, Ittaku said:

At 96kHz where you run them, it will likely make no audible difference whatsoever which filter you choose, and on principle alone, I'd recommend their default choice.

 

 

Andy

 

[08Boss302 1,307]

Project pre box S2 and Cambridge Audio (dac magic plus) both well regarded DACs in your range.  The project also MQA compatible should you trial Tidal and enjoy it...

 

If an ARES pops up in your range don't hesitate, you won't be upset with it if your main concentration is on vinyl...

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks very much @08Boss302 for the recommendations. The Ares has been recommended previously, the Ares II specifically, so it’s pretty high on the shortlist at the moment. I’ll also have a look at the Pro-ject and Cambridge too. Thanks again!

[el toro 23]

Happened upon this topic and it took me right back..... I tried quite a few budget Dacs back when I was getting started on my first proper system. It's half the fun of this gig - trying a new component here, a room tweak there...and on and on it goes.....

 

As it happens I've still got two of them hanging around. One is an Audio GD NFB-3, the other a home build done by a Stereo.net member back in the day - I know it has dual Wolfson chips but not much else. OP welcome to borrow them if keen - they're just sitting there taking up room.

 

Anyone remember the Havana tube dac? A mate had one and it added a bit of warmth to his system. Perhaps OP could use a tube Dac to tame things down a bit?

Edited September 1, 2020 by el toro

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks very much @el toro, just sent you a PM to hopefully arrange something.

[sir sanders zingmore 11,979]

8 hours ago, el toro said:

OP welcome to borrow them if keen - they're just sitting there taking up room.

Very generous gesture! Gotta love SNA 

[el toro 23]

Just trying to pay it back - I've had plenty of help and advice over the years from this site!

 

And I find the sound of a dac that's unplugged in the spare room to be 'sub-optimal'.

[Sterg237 21]

Totally agree @sir sanders zingmore, have been absolutely floored by the amount of people responding to this newbie topic with helpful suggestions that have broadened my options past the usuals found on google searches. @el toro’s offer takes the cake for generosity though. Very appreciative of everyone taking the time to respond to this.

[akjono 37]

Bravissimo @el toro! SNA ers slice through pandemic obscurations. I know that more of us have more time on our hands, hence more possible listening time, and computer time too. SNA, solving the world's Audio problems one by one. Cheers. 

 

[Cafad 3,597]

I've always wanted to try one of these.

 

https://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/d1p

 

Meant to be pretty smooth.

[Sterg237 21]

That looks like a good recommendation, thanks very much @Cafad!

[PCOWandre 153]

22 minutes ago, Cafad said:

I've always wanted to try one of these.

 

https://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/d1p

 

Meant to be pretty smooth.

 

I had the D2 for a while and it was quite smooth. Almost a little too smooth for my tastes. Nice looking unit, too.

[misternavi 1,196]

On 01/09/2020 at 8:52 AM, Sterg237 said:

Hi all, lurker for a few weeks, first time poster. From what I’ve read in these forums, seems like you have a great community here.

 

I’m in the market for an entry-level DAC. Nothing advanced, all I want to do is stream Spotify from a Chromecast Audio. Vinyl is my focus, this is to just give me access to what I don’t own. I’ll bypass the CCA’s internal DAC via a Toslink cable and connect to my Yamaha A-S501 via RCA (therefore avoiding the amp’s internal DAC).

 

This is my first stereo system and has been put together through second hand purchases during Melbourne lockdown. As a result I haven’t been able to listen to the items and have ended up with a cool, clinical, detail-focused system (read: bright). Over the next 12 months I’ll rectify that by swapping out items for warmer sound. I’m learning quickly that the search is addictive, but, as my girlfriend continually reminds me, this current system is just a starting point.

 

Anyway, I digress, back to the DAC. Are there any recommendations for a DAC that can add warmth or character? Is that even possible or is a DAC nothing more than a conversion tool?

 

I’ll again be trying to take advantage of the thriving second hand market, so looking up to $500 used. One that seems highly regarded when it comes up, as an example, is the Arcam irDAC.

 

Looking forward to the discussion and thanks in advance.

 

Chris

I think a DAC won't solve your bright sounding system but if you were to try one I recommend the Topping D50 or E30. 

I have the D50 DAC and L30 pre amp and headphone amp. it blows me away with the sound. Really well made items a really cheap prices.

 

 

Can you take a photo of your set up (system in the room)? 

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks for the recommendations @misternavi, the Toppings have been a popular suggestion.

 

I’m not looking to solve my brightness  problem with a DAC. Streaming is very much secondary to vinyl for me. I started this forum mainly to get suggestions for an inexpensive DAC that wouldn’t add to my brightness issues. We definitely look at a speaker upgrade in coming months.

[lenticularis 519]

Great to see so many inputs from SNA members.

 

I would echo the strong plug for Gieseler DACs.

 

I started my own journey in a very small way, buying a small matchbox-sized DAC/headphone amp that plugged in between mu desktop computer (iMac) and headphones.  Reading up on SNA for much needed education to take me beyond simple Spotify streaming to the desktop, led me to buy a Schiit Modi 3 that was then plugged into the main system in the lounge.

 

More SNA reading saw me a happy buyer of a Gieseler Klein III. That ca $600 purchase was a significant upgrade from the then $199 Modi 3 even though the latter is highly regarded in its price bracket.

 

A recent change of streamer (network bridge) meant that my USB-input model of Klein III was no longer usable in the main system, so I bought a Topping E30 that popped up here on the classifieds. That E30 will probably be spare when I order Clay Gieseler's latest Klein IV, not yet available.

I have moved my Klein III onto my desktop and it replaced the Schiit Modi 3 which sold quickly here on the classifieds. I have a review of my findings between the Klein III and the Modi 3 in the user reviews of Gieseler DACs compiled by @Snoopy8 (Jeez, there are a lot of SNAers named snoopy!)

 

All of this ramble is to add my own 2c that I believe the Gieseler Klein III is well worth the $600-700 price against a $200 DAC, although the E30 does give a lot for the money. I haven't done an A-B test between the Klein III and the E30 when using USB inputs from desktop feed, something I'll do in due course.

Edited September 3, 2020 by lenticularis
typos

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks @lenticularis, that was very helpful advice. The Schiit Modi is something that has come up a few times in searches as well-regarded, so I was surprised that no one mentioned it earlier. I figured the online reviews were marketing. So it was good to get your opinion on that as an inexpensive option.

 

I always prefer to buy locally made and owned products, so I have a keen eye on the classifieds for a Gieseler, as well as many of the others suggested to me throughout this thread.

 

I second what you said, I've been blown away by the amount of users offering me really informative and beneficial advice. I was not expecting to get out of the single digits in regards to replies to my initial post!

[el toro 23]

+1 for Schiit Modi 3.

 

Love mine.

 

A no schiit review from a highly trusted source here:

 

https://darko.audio/2018/11/schiit-modi-3-dac-review/

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks @el toro, will give it a read. Certainly no shortage of puns!

[el toro 23]

It just never stops giving.....😝

[scuzzii 6,174]

On 02/09/2020 at 9:23 PM, misternavi said:

I think a DAC won't solve your bright sounding system but if you were to try one I recommend the Topping D50 or E30. 

I have the D50 DAC and L30 pre amp and headphone amp. it blows me away with the sound. Really well made items a really cheap prices.

 

 

Can you take a photo of your set up (system in the room)? 

where did you get your topping from..?  I'm looking at the D90

[misternavi 1,196]

1 hour ago, scuzzii said:

where did you get your topping from..?  I'm looking at the D90

I bought mine used on this forum.

L30 i got from addicted 2 audio. i found them really good to deal with. cost is around the same as buying overseas

[dr_carl 193]

I find my SMSL to be great value. Fits in well with my amp, speakers, room, ears. Lots of features, good AKM chip, exactly only the connectivity I need. Happy customer. 

So low price that it can be a painless experiment anyway. 

[Ittaku 4,357]

6 hours ago, scuzzii said:

where did you get your topping from..?  I'm looking at the D90

I've bought 3 Topping DACs from Shenzhen audio direct which is cheaper than buying local, and shipping is free. No issues with buying.

https://shenzhenaudio.com/

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks @dr_carl, the SMSL is not something that has been mentioned yet, but sounds like it ticks a lot of boxes for you so I'll have a look into it.

[Sterg237 21]

Thanks for the link @Ittaku, the Toppings have been a popular suggestion so I'll pay that site a visit!

[charlie_bird 191]

1 hour ago, dr_carl said:

I find my SMSL to be great value. Fits in well with my amp, speakers, room, ears. Lots of features, good AKM chip, exactly only the connectivity I need. Happy customer. 

So low price that it can be a painless experiment anyway. 

I've been watching this thread closely. Without getting into the MQA debate, how does the SMSL M500 stack up against some the the other DACs discussed in this thread sub $500. I've had my eye on the SMSL M500 (about $600 aud) for some time but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. 

[Sterg237 21]

Hi @charlie_bird, beginner’s question here. What does MQA stand for?

[charlie_bird 191]

I think it is Master Quality Audio a format that's available (exclusively?) on Tidal

 

google it. I really don't want to high-jack your thread as it seems to polarize opinions

Edited September 4, 2020 by charlie_bird

[el toro 23]

3 hours ago, Ittaku said:

I've bought 3 Topping DACs from Shenzhen audio direct which is cheaper than buying local, and shipping is free. No issues with buying.

https://shenzhenaudio.com/

How long did shipping take? And are we talking pre-pandemic or since the world began to officially crumble around our ears?

 

I ordered some (non-audio related stuff) from Aliexpress back in March and didn't see it until late June......

 

 

 

[Ittaku 4,357]

27 minutes ago, el toro said:

How long did shipping take? And are we talking pre-pandemic or since the world began to officially crumble around our ears?

 

I ordered some (non-audio related stuff) from Aliexpress back in March and didn't see it until late June......

 

 

 

1 week prepandemic. 3 weeks in pandemic.

[navlrac 13]

1 hour ago, el toro said:

How long did shipping take?

Aliexpress free shipping has taken up to eight weeks for me in pandemic, I now try find a seller with the cheaper tracked shipping ($3-4) that ships in +- 3 weeks.

[sly_bastard 51]

I would recommend either the SMSL su-8 v2 or the Topping E30.  Have both and they are both great for the price.  The smsl is more detailed and is balanced with both XLR and RCA out but is almost twice the price of the Topping.  There is a difference in sound and they obviously use different chipsets. 

 

The Topping used to be found via email locally for less the Shen Zhen Audio, got mine off Ebay at the time.  Looks like it has slightly changed but I would recommend ebay if you want it in a few days not at least a month if not longer as it is a local seller as such.

[twofires 311]

Just to add to the heap of Topping recommendations, I use a D50s for exactly the job you describe, albeit with Marantz and Dynaudio kit. It worked perfectly straight out of the box, and it comes in a silver that matches your Yamaha. The remote is also quite good for the price range. I have zero complaints.

 

I think your issue with brightness is, as others have suggested, that you have a treble forward sounding speaker with an amp that is a little bit rough in that range (versus their more expensive offerings).