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I opened up few subwoofers to look inside. A B&W PV1, a Velodyne SPL10, and a couple of no-names. Hope you find it interesting. :)


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Yeah, those things (especially the B&W drivers) are heavy.

 

When I was editing, I couldn't believe how much I was breathing heavily. But, of course that could just be my severe lack of strength, lately. :D

 

Glad you liked it. Thanks for the feedback.

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Thanks for that.
By the sounds of things I think I’m one of the lucky ones 😊

mine is still running after 11 years !

 

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nice work, definitely get what pay for :D  love the insides of those cheapie subs... 

 

the velodynes are decent indeed, yes age with the caps seems to get them, but hopefully an easy fix, being serviceable units and up and going again.

 

its a real shame with the b&W that its not serviceable ? good driver, so much engineering in the casing. @Hilltop Rob definitely nothing can do to fix it ? is it just the ice amp that dies ? cant imagine much else with them to go wrong ? 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, betty boop said:

nice work, definitely get what pay for :D  love the insides of those cheapie subs... 

 

the velodynes are decent indeed, yes age with the caps seems to get them, but hopefully an easy fix, being serviceable units and up and going again.

 

its a real shame with the b&W that its not serviceable ? good driver, so much engineering in the casing. @Hilltop Rob definitely nothing can do to fix it ? is it just the ice amp that dies ? cant imagine much else with them to go wrong ? 

 

 

Was actually a power supply failure and it had arc'd out pretty badly, and then it in-turn took out the control board. I'd post pics but I turfed everything but the drivers.

 

I have a Sonance ASAP3D SE on the shelf at the moment that I alluded to in the video that runs an ICEPOWER 50ASX2 which has an arc-ing transformer on the board. replacement is about $150-$200 but after I spent an hour or two on it, I'd struggle to make back what I'd invested in it. Similar story with the PV-1. Trying to get PSU parts and specs for it would be nigh on impossible, then I'd still have to go looking for whatever fried in the controls. 😪

 

It's a real shame, and the amount of waste this industry creates is nothing short of astounding/shameful. But, at least a decent amount of this can go to recycling.

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23 minutes ago, Hilltop Rob said:

I have a Sonance ASAP3D SE on the shelf at the moment that I alluded to in the video that runs an ICEPOWER 50ASX2 which has an arc-ing transformer on the board. replacement is about $150-$200 but after I spent an hour or two on it, I'd struggle to make back what I'd invested in it. Similar story with the PV-1. Trying to get PSU parts and specs for it would be nigh on impossible, then I'd still have to go looking for whatever fried in the controls. 😪

what a shame ! as you mentioned i hope they have resolved what ever goes on the PV series with the later gen. as agree they are an awesome sub. i always wanted one for my bedroom system ...but never pulled off ! :D 

 

23 minutes ago, Hilltop Rob said:

It's a real shame, and the amount of waste this industry creates is nothing short of astounding/shameful. But, at least a decent amount of this can go to recycling.

yes such a crying shame ...yeah hopefully some of it gets though e waste. I've got a couple of old velodynes. 15". one had a problem after 16 years ! but thankfully a known issue. packed up the back plate. took an eternity in shipping but its back on its way from the states. hopefully get another 16 years at least :D  from it as they awesome subs ! will have to get the 2nd one thats similar age refurbed once covid and shipping isnt the complete disaster it is now ! and so thankful some of these things are still fixable and supported these days of what seems a throw away society we live in. 

 

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Lovely video, I had the Minivee before... 8" Velodyne and it's very well built. 

I wish you had a JL Audio sub to pull apart... those are heavy and well built too. 

 

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10 minutes ago, petetherock said:

Lovely video, I had the Minivee before... 8" Velodyne and it's very well built. 

I wish you had a JL Audio sub to pull apart... those are heavy and well built too. 

 

Here's a F112 that I removed the amp to send away for repair. Pretty sure this pic was the amp for it but was a few years ago and memory is fading. I do remember everything was very solidly built, great subs.

 

 

IMG_20151029_094503.jpg

IMG_20151029_094510.jpg

IMG_20160124_103426.jpg

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Ah, I had the F113. Weight more than 40 kg IIRC... when used in anger, my front door would open by itself! Which certainly helped heighten the experience when I was watching "The Haunting" starring Liam Neeson. Can't say much about the story, but the bass.... you will know if you have enough sub or did it pass out trying to recreate the tension... 

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I remember my first venture on a budget 5.1 setup turned out to be rather woeful. The Denon AVR was not too bad, but the speakers were not good, Wintel brand, the sub last less then a week, would just turn itself of iirc so quickly returned to the shop and they gave me another one without the problem. And the speakers well, the less said the better

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Hi,

A month or two ago I repaired a PV1 sub which had stopped working, and it was just making a ticking noise (which appears to be a common problem).

The fault turned out to be a faulty filter cap in a low voltage supply circuit (a 470uf 16v electrolytic labelled C824) the original cap was only a 2000 hour 85 degrees C rated cap operating in a high temperature  part of the circuit (~55 degrees C ) so it wasn't going to last long.

 

Unfortunately the usage of such low quality caps in subwoofer amps is quite common

 

PS using a hair dryer to soften the butyl rubber sealant helps with disassembly

 

cheers.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, afa said:

Unfortunately the usage of such low quality caps in subwoofer amps is quite common

So true!

Looking closer at the Velodyne amplifier, it uses CapXon capacitors, which are third-tier rated.

 

I'm going to hold of trying to repair it for a while until I can justify the $5-$10 each for Nichicon or Rubycons. Definitely not a bin job though.

 

Also, I remember the ticking issue. Thankfully, I don't think I had to handle that many of them.

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3 hours ago, Itsmoi said:

I remember my first venture on a budget 5.1 setup turned out to be rather woeful. The Denon AVR was not too bad, but the speakers were not good, Wintel brand, the sub last less then a week, would just turn itself of iirc so quickly returned to the shop and they gave me another one without the problem. And the speakers well, the less said the better

I don't think anyone eve got laughed at for buying a Denon. You'd be hard-pressed to go wrong.

 

I have a customer who has a 12 year-old 3808 that we're just waiting for to die so we can replace it. We're only using the audio channels as the video is handled by a matrix, but the thing just keeps on going!

 

Can't say I've heard of Wintel...  🤔

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  • 3 months later...

just though id clarify a few things mentioned in your video,

bit of a rant from myside as B&W claim its all of high quality and made in the UK blah blah and yes from the outside its all pretty solid. but its when you get inside you realise how much theyve cut corners and you soon realise why these dont last as long as they should.

 

the drivers are nice and solid but just fyi, it has made in china stamped on them in case anyone is curious and that goes for many of the components inside.

second, you mention that its a B&W amplifier but its infact a bang&olufsen powerhouse board (ICE 500A MK2) can be purchased seperately

 

the problem with this unit imo is its full of cheap components. as mentioned above, the caps they have on the boards are the SMG rated at 85degrees @ 2000 hrs.. yes very lame considering the amount of premium you pay for this unit youd expect something specced like 135 degree plus @ 20.000 hrs which is what im going going to replace mine with. these are on the main power board which gets pretty hot so you can imagine the consequences.

 

but if anyone wants further info on the caps that need replacing or images of the boards just let me know and ill post them up on  here.

 

P.S. mine has the common fault of the dreaded ticking sound

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Rob,

 

great video - thanks.

 

I see you're in Laidley, not too far from Bris-vegas

Do you do repair work?

PM me your details.

I don't have any broken stuff ATM, but I'm always on the lookout for local people that can repair stuff.

 

cheers

Mike

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On 06/12/2020 at 5:14 PM, salzy said:

but if anyone wants further info on the caps that need replacing or images of the boards just let me know and ill post them up on  here.

 

 

Hi @salzy My PV1 has just started ticking. Would really appreciate seeing what component(s) I need to look at  and images of the boards. B&W simply will not help.  Thank you in advance.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Until recently I had a Velodyne HGS10 sub which I'd owned for decades.

 

I had to open it up to fix amps issues, but the driver (massive) and construction (massive) put modern subs to shame.

 

It made my SVS SB1000 look and feel like a toy.

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1 hour ago, sfdoddsy said:

Until recently I had a Velodyne HGS10 sub which I'd owned for decades.

 

I had to open it up to fix amps issues, but the driver (massive) and construction (massive) put modern subs to shame.

 

It made my SVS SB1000 look and feel like a toy.

My only reference for subs are the Rythmik 12" sub drivers in my current sub, and the Peerless XXLS 12" sub driver I have waiting for me to make sawdust...both the Rythmik and Peerless drivers look pretty good (big magnets, solid construction, voicecoil venting).

I can't comment on SVS drivers or their sub enclosure construction.

 

I built my current T20 tapped horn dual 12" sub from 19mm form-ply with plenty of bracing - it's actually quite light weight for its size (2400x600x300mm) - an easy 2 man lift.

Sub enclosure construction is not about weight - it's about ensuring the enclosure is braced sufficiently so the cabinet doesn't resonate within the sub's operating frequency range...and doesn't leak.

A well designed sub enclosure should be rigid (where internal bracing moves any enclosure resonances well above the sub's operating range), but that doesn't mean the enclosure has to be massive/massively constructed.

 

cheers

Mike

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Some of those beef cake subwoofer drivers can be over engineered because that’s expected for sales, but not always perform that well in terms of sound quality. Depends on what you are looking for, if one needs heaps of drive and volume vs bass texture and detail or can have both as well in an ideal design. Just my limited experience when I was DIYing subs using quality hifi woofers that don’t have as much absolute head room and drive that’s not always needed vs dedicated subwoofer drivers that look the part but werent as satisfying.

 

Also, it can be deceptive about the size and appearance of driver cones, surround material toughness, large magnets does not guarantee a good result as there is more to it than that in the final execution of the product.

 

In comparison I had some hifi stereo speaker Eton 10 inch hexacone, Focal 12 inch 726 polyglass cones and even an old Kef B139 oval 10 inch unit vs Peerless 12 inch XLS and older SVS unit and thought the others were much more detailed and usable for music and even HT. For example, like during a HT sound test on a car chase and the motor exhaust sound in the movie track was much more realistic on the others whereas the Peerless and SVS was very one noted. A lot of auto  subwoofers definitely fall into this category of being over engineered eye candy to sell. 

 

Not saying this is always the case and more comparisons are needed.

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On 26/12/2020 at 5:48 PM, rickw said:

Hi @salzy My PV1 has just started ticking. Would really appreciate seeing what component(s) I need to look at  and images of the boards. B&W simply will not help.  Thank you in advance.

Labeled C824 as mentioned previously and it's on the 3rd board which can only be accessed once you split the sub in half. For what it's worth though you may as well just change all the caps as did i.

I used a Irwin quick clamp to spread it open

IMG_20201204_213646.thumb.jpg.252dc41a826513632edc70b6e4083ffe.jpg

IMG_20210104_190505.jpg

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