Phono preamp advice

[unclekanus]

28 minutes ago, aussievintage said:

This is a very nicely designed opamp phono.    Hagerman's tube version is even better.

Agree. Jim knows what he's doing. The tube version is supposedly excellent and very keenly priced.

Both are very good value and for the price you can afford to try some upgraded tubes or opamps if you're that way inclined.

[aussievintage]

13 hours ago, unclekanus said:

The tube version is supposedly excellent and very keenly priced.

 

It's almost as good as the one I make   (only joking as it is actually VERY similar to the design I came up with)

[mloutfie]

1 hour ago, aussievintage said:

 

It's almost as good as the one I make   (only joking as it is actually VERY similar to the design I came up with)

That's one good design mate  the haggerman has been a solid amp especially if you put a solid liner power supply to it

[mloutfie]

15 hours ago, unclekanus said:

Agree. Jim knows what he's doing. The tube version is supposedly excellent and very keenly priced.

 

If he put the haggerman 3 in a metal box I think he can sell it for $1000 no problem

[Ian McP]

19 hours ago, unclekanus said:

These are really well reviewed. My brother got one recently and he's extremely pleased with it. 

 

https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/products/bugle3-phono-preamp-mm-mc

I have a Bugle 1 that I built, could be persuaded to sell for not much moolah. I used Sulzer regulated power supply for it Can post circuits and photos.

Very similar to Bugle 2

https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/bugle2

https://tangentsoft.net/elec/opamp-linreg.html

regards Ian

[Batty]

Just ordered the Hagerman Bugle 2 PCB.

[Tax]

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. 

 

Glad that Batty picked up a Hagerman. I have always liked the form factor but never had a chance to listen to one.

 

Unfortunately the Melos was already promised to someone else.

 

I ended up getting a decent deal on a used  Electrocompaniet ECP1 which I have now purchased and should be getting next week.

 

Thanks once again!

[andyr]

53 minutes ago, Tax said:

I ended up getting a decent deal on a used  Electrocompaniet ECP1 which I have now purchased and should be getting next week.

 

 

Are you going to use it with a MM cart ... or a LOMC cart, Tax?

 

Looking at the User Manual:

• gain for MM is only 35dB (55x) - instead of the more usual 40dB (100x).  This means you will need to use an MM which has an output of at least 5mV (some are down at 3 or 4mV).
• gain for MC is a rather high 73dB (4500x) - instead of the more usual 60dB (1000x).  This means it will mate better with a LOMC cart whose output is specced at, say, 0.24mV - rather than a cart whose output is, say, 0.5mV.  I understand there is a fixed loading for the MC selection - so it's pot luck as to whether the loading they chose ... will suit your LOMC cart. 
• so if you do have a LOMC, I would recommend you select the MM option and use a SUT or a head amp between the cart and the ECP1.  This will give you more flexibility, in terms of gain and loading.

 

Regards,

Andy

 

[half baked]

I’m using the ifi phono at the moment, bought it as an in between upgrade while I’m demoing a replacement. but wow it’s pretty good , I’m wondering how good the ifi phono black could possibly be.   In your price range.
‘I’ve heard nothing under $1500 that betters it

[Tax]

13 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Are you going to use it with a MM cart ... or a LOMC cart, Tax?

 

Looking at the User Manual:

• gain for MM is only 35dB (55x) - instead of the more usual 40dB (100x).  This means you will need to use an MM which has an output of at least 5mV (some are down at 3 or 4mV).
• gain for MC is a rather high 73dB (4500x) - instead of the more usual 60dB (1000x).  This means it will mate better with a LOMC cart whose output is specced at, say, 0.24mV - rather than a cart whose output is, say, 0.5mV.  I understand there is a fixed loading for the MC selection - so it's pot luck as to whether the loading they chose ... will suit your LOMC cart. 
• so if you do have a LOMC, I would recommend you select the MM option and use a SUT or a head amp between the cart and the ECP1.  This will give you more flexibility, in terms of gain and loading.

 

Regards,

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

I have a couple of options - a LoMC Fidelity Research FR1 Mk3F 0.14m or for MM an Audiotechnica AT150MLX 4mV

 

Also have some SPU's (90A and Meister Silver) that are 0.3mV if I ever decide to use them in this system. Usually they go on the FR66S on my Micro Seiki rig. 

 

I also have a spare set of Jensen 1:10, 1:12 stepups that I can use via the MM function but if the MC function works well without a SUT and extra pair of cables then that is how I intend to use it. Too lazy to drill a box and get the Jensens set up. Different story if there is room onboard the actual phono to mount the internally. Have to see.

 

Currently I have not decided whether I will use the Luxman PD370 or the Thorens TD160 with either the Thorens TP arm or SME3009 in this system.

 

In this system the speakers are Altec VOTT A7:500's  and a pair of custom made standmounts using a CD horn for >2k and a Davis 6.5 doing 80Hz to 2KHz and a pair of Mirage 8inch diole subwoofers doing 30Hz to 80Hz so I have very high efficiency at very low volumes. As part of my downsizing process I will eventually sell the Altec VOTT's.

 

BTW I saw an expired ad in the US where the seller had used the ECP1 with almost identical carts to mine so that gave me some hope to freefall into this phono.

 

Cheers

t

[2Brix]

1 hour ago, Tax said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. 

 

Glad that Batty picked up a Hagerman. I have always liked the form factor but never had a chance to listen to one.

 

Unfortunately the Melos was already promised to someone else.

 

I ended up getting a decent deal on a used  Electrocompaniet ECP1 which I have now purchased and should be getting next week.

 

Thanks once again!

So went with a full size footprint after all.  Oops think i looked at the wrong spec page.

 

Should be a nice unit!

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by 2Brix

[Tax]

5 minutes ago, 2Brix said:

So went with a full size footprint after all.  Should be a nice unit!

 

 

Thanks!

 

This is the older and smaller unit not the current full size ECP2

 

Dimensions: 9.5 W x 6.7 D x 2.8 H (inch)
Weight: 2.2 lbs

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tax

[2Brix]

yep and apologies as i corrected my post already

[andyr]

18 minutes ago, Tax said:

Hi Andy,

 

I have a couple of options - a LoMC Fidelity Research FR1 Mk3F 0.14m or for MM an Audiotechnica AT150MLX 4mV

 

Al

 

FR1 Mk3F should be absolutely perfect, Al - and I would suspect the loading provided by the ECP1 (LOMC input) will be suitable. 

 

Andy

 

[Wayne Elliott]

Had a Vincent PH-700 around here just before latest ISO, pretty good for $$$. In more budget range Schitt Mani and Vincent PH-08 are excellent for the $$$. All only trialled with High Output MM. Can't comment on Performance with Low Output MC.

[givita_burl]

Anyone tried or have thoughts on the AVM P30?

[evil c]

31 minutes ago, givita_burl said:

Anyone tried or have thoughts on the AVM P30?

Very good phono, for under $1k a no brainer!

Tried one in my system a little while ago, and overall a lot to like!

[Tab74]

On 20/08/2020 at 12:37 PM, aussievintage said:

 

I have a little vintage Luxman with 2 phono inputs.  Based on that, I have to wonder if you have set that price a little high?  The little $60 op-amp based phono preamp from Jaycar, for example, is way better than the Luxman phono circuit.

I have a Project essential 3 recordmaster with and using it's  builtin preamp running it in to my pioneer avr would  it be better to try the Jaycar preamp you suggest .I am not unhappy with the builtin just wondering if this would give any improvement just can't afford to spend any serious money.   Just new and learning all this hifi stuff.

[davidSun]

I bought a Vincent pho-701 with a NOS Mullard tube from SNA 2 weeks ago. I think tube had 100 hours run time when I got it. Soundstage and separation are excellent. I placed the power supply box about 2 meters away from the phono box. I am using denon DL103R with Ortofon SuT. The output is soft , so I have to turn up the volume on my main preamp , ARC 5se to about 70 to play loud on good recordings. Pleased with the phono stage, but now itching to get a full and proper all tube phono stage, when funds permit of course. Something with 4 or 5 tubes on it would look nice as well.

I have the Schiit Mani too. The Vincent edges the mani in all aspects. I suspect having a separate box for PSU does make a big difference to sound quality. Much better than the wall wart for the mani. If you implement a separate box psu for the mani, I am sure it would be much much better.. I guess at that price point, with the wall wart, the mani is still a very good buy. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by davidSun

[Grimmie]

@davidSun I'm also using a Vincent pho-701 and rate it highly but I use the stock tube and have the PSU sitting next to the phono.  As they are both metal enclosures and designed to stand adjacent, what would be the reasons for: I placed the power supply box about 2 meters away from the phono box. and have you experimented with the siting of the PSU and found it to be advantageous.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Grimmie

[davidSun]

@Grimmie, page 26 of user manual:

Placement
The phono preamplifier processes very sensitive electric signals. That is why you should place both appliances at maximum distance to potential sources of disturbance like mains cables, mobile phones, switching power supplies, transformers, computers and main amplifiers. 
I haven’t tried putting them next to each other. They have been 2 metres apart from day one. Give it a try. It’s a tweak that cost nothing.