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Which NAS and associated software for streaming server and file storage?


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Hi all ...

Back around  January I posted about some issues I was having with my new Cambridge CXN V2 network streamer.  Consensus from responders was that my FLAC file/library metadata and filing structure was not up to scratch ...  a conclusion that I'm now totally convinced of ... although I didn't implement any changes to my small HP notebook server setup at the time. Since then life has got in the way and I haven't really progressed at all ... my system remains temporarily shelved and disconnected. I have cat6 ethernet cables installed and they are ready to be put back into service. I've been doing a bit more research lately into a NAS drive as a music server and storage. I feel I could happily live with X2 8TB drives and don't see a need to go beyond a simple Raid 1 (mirrored) set-up. It's taken me 20 years to accumulate under 2 TB of data and I honestly don't foresee any acceleration of storage needs into the future. I'm 99% convinced that is the way to go. What I'm not sure about is the specific model I should go for. I have about 500 Flac albums, and will also be storing a 1.5TB high res photo image collection which will continue to grow (slowly). I would like to get a basic automatic backup system happening for the music and photo libraries ... possibly a USB HDD attached to the NAS and some sort of cloud copy as well . Do people have any NAS recommendations? What would be an appropriate CPU to go for with consideration to  possibly using Roon at some time in the future. Memory size?.  HDD capacity? I'm currently looking at this one:

https://www.qnapshop.com.au/qnap-ts-253d-4g-2-bay-nas-intel-celeron-j4125-quad .

I'm not sure if the server apps/software which is supplied with modern NAS units is optimal for the task. I've been looking around and this seems to be popular https://minimserver.com/index.html  ... any thoughts?

And what about metadata management? This seems to get good reviews https://www.mp3tag.de/en/ .

Any hints tips or experiences?

 

 

Edited by gregmacc
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22 minutes ago, gregmacc said:

 

I'm not sure if the server apps/software which is supplied with modern NAS units is optimal for the task. I've been looking around and this seems to be popular https://minimserver.com/index.html  ... any thoughts?

And what about metadata management? This seems to get good reviews https://www.mp3tag.de/en/ .

Any hints tips or experiences?

Minimserver is available on Synology, QNAP.  It does have some nice advanced features that you can configure, but standard software on, say the Synology with its Media Server is good as well.  

 

Mp3Tag is excellent. Metadata management is probably the biggest challenge and the sooner you start, the better it will be.  

 

I would recommend a Synology NAS, a DS218 will fit the bill.  DSM Operating system is very easy to set up and use.  Suggest getting Seagate Ironwolf or WD Red drives which are specifically designed for NAS.   A USB drive to backup the files is the way to go,

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Similar comments to @Snoopy8 I am using a 4 bay Syno NAS. Its 4 bay because I use it for other things. A 2 bay should be fine, either QNAP or Syno. The Syno DS720+ would be roughly equivalent to the QNAP 253 in price and performance. I have 4 x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB HDD in my NAS, work perfectly (so far). I've used WD Reds in another NAS as well. If you used 2 x 8TB HDD, I am sure that would give you more than enough storage in RAID1. 

 

I use MinimServer on the NAS with my streamer, but the native uPnP server is ok as well (Media Server). For metadata management, I use Metadatics on my Mac which works very well, not sure if its available for Windows if you still use your HP notebook. MP3tag is probably just as good. Backup from the NAS is pretty straightforward. 

 

Good luck with your choices, I am sure you will notice an improvement once set up. I'm enjoying my setup.

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I second and third a Synology NAS. I have a 4 bay unit with 8 TB of usable space and it's wonderful for music, TV shows, pictures, movies etc.  I don't run anything fancier than SMB and AFS off the NAS for my roon server to connect to. I don't see any need for minimserver or anything else as roon can mount the remote share like a disk and it's all I use to play music on my Lumin T2, BlueSound Powernodes, Raspberry Pi based DACs and the left over Sonos gear in the house.

 

Get a spare disk for whatever you select and put it in the cupboard for a spare if you have a problem with a disk and need to rebuild the RAID set.  I had a power outage over summer which cooked a HDD and left bad sectors all over another. I didn't have a spare and spent a few sleepless nights until I could get another disk back into the array.

 

You can plug a USB drive in the back of the Synology NAS units and set up a scheduled file mirror so you have redundancy off the box too.

 

For example: 
1 x https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Network-Storage-(NAS)/1-4-Bays/81827-DS420j

5 x https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Hard-Drives-&-SSDs/HDD-3.5-Drives/46680-WD20EFRX

 

Gets you 8 TB of usable, RAID array with a spare disk for the shelf.

 

 

Edited by recur
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4 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Minimserver is available on Synology, QNAP.  It does have some nice advanced features that you can configure, but standard software on, say the Synology with its Media Server is good as well.  

 

Mp3Tag is excellent. Metadata management is probably the biggest challenge and the sooner you start, the better it will be.  

 

thanks Snoopy8 ... yep, I reckon starting out with the supplied server software will be how I will approach things ... and consider MinimServer if I feel the need ... and Mp3Tag is something I should get yesterday and start working on tidying up the library while I'm shopping for/researching hardware .

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4 hours ago, mjs said:

The Syno DS720+ would be roughly equivalent to the QNAP 253 in price and performance

Thanks mjs ... the Synology looks to be about $100 cheaper than that QNAP ... same 2Ghz CPU but the Synology only has 2Gb memory compared to the QNAPS's 4Gb ... possibly accounts for the price difference? The Synology is upgradable to 6Gb ... would that be ordinary garden variety memory that can be used in desktop PCs? ... Or is it proprietary and possibly more expensive? ... Ease of upgrading by myself? (I'm somewhat "limited"  technologically - as illustrated by all the basic questions ?).

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Personally I run a DIYed solution using Unraid on a large rack server, but you can't go wrong with Synology for ease of use.

 

Definitely get a 4 way over a 2 way, and put 4x 8+tb NAS grade drives in it, Synology will then default to a 3+1 parity system with 24TB free so you can lose any one drive without losing any data.

 

For serving music and handling general backup services, 2gb ram is plenty. If you wanted to run something like Plex, i'd add another 2gb at least.

 

These systems usually use normal computer ram, doesn't need to be high spec.

Some use laptop size SO-DIMM memory and some use desktop DIMMs, you have to check the spec sheet for which is supported on the nas and at what standards (DDR3 or 4,  recommended speed etc)

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4 hours ago, recur said:

 I don't run anything fancier than SMB and AFS off the NAS for my roon server to connect to. I don't see any need for minimserver or anything else as roon can mount the remote share like a disk and it's all I use to play music on my Lumin T2, BlueSound Powernodes, Raspberry Pi based DACs and the left over Sonos gear in the house.

Thanks recur ... I can't see myself using Roon any time soon but I would like to know that my system could run it smoothly and without fault should the whim entice me. The CXN V2 is Roon ready.

Could you explain a couple of tems for me:  "SMB" ... "AFS" ... "Roon can mount the remote share like a disk"

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9 minutes ago, GaryT said:

For serving music and handling general backup services, 2gb ram is plenty. If you wanted to run something like Plex, i'd add another 2gb at least.

Thanks GaryT ... yep, the fact that memory can be upgraded with generic ram eases my mind ... I'm just wondering if 4Gb might make my initial purchase more future proof?

Edited by gregmacc
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My understanding (looking into all this at some stage too) is that using Roon will mean you’ll need to decide whether a) Roon core (and the resultant intensive cpu use) is on a separate machine, such as a NUC, then connected to your NAS vs b) The NAS itself has Roon on it

The choice of NAS will depend on this, as you need to make sure its processor is up to it in the “b” option.

others here will know, but it sounds like a separate dedicated machine - often a NUC i5 or i7 with decent ram and an SSD - is preferable to take the Roon duties, leaving your NAS to deal with anything else.....

Let me know how you go!

Also, most NAS’s can have added external expanded storage for further backup, but check the spec’s....

Mat

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5 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said:

My understanding (looking into all this at some stage too) is that using Roon will mean you’ll need to decide whether a) Roon core (and the resultant intensive cpu use) is on a separate machine, such as a NUC, then connected to your NAS vs b) The NAS itself has Roon on it

The choice of NAS will depend on this, as you need to make sure its processor is up to it in the “b” option.

others here will know, but it sounds like a separate dedicated machine - often a NUC i5 or i7 with decent ram and an SSD - is preferable to take the Roon duties, leaving your NAS to deal with anything else.....

Thanks Mat ... yes, I get all that ... but Roon really isn't on my radar for now. I've spent many years relying on the All Music website and a Spotify family account to satisfy my artist information/discovery needs ... and that combination does all I need for an outlay of $3 per month and I get a quite decent web streaming service thrown in. I'm confident the software supplied with a NAS and possibly one or two inexpensive apps will cover my cataloging and server needs. 

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Guest rmpfyf

Synology works fine. Have one 8-bay unit, have installed many. The decent units start at 4/5 bays. 

 

Get 2 HDDs to start with. 

 

Streaming music doesn't not require tons of resources so something with a ton of RAM isn't necessary though having the ability to upgrade it with more is great in the event you want to do something different e.g. run it as a video recorder for a bunch of security cameras.

 

HDD choices are what you need, NAS-spec, x2. Some makes give more diagnostic data per HDD and that's nice (Synology and some Seagate drives, for instance). 

 

Cloud backup, emailing you when something isn't quite right, etc.. all easy to setup. 

 

Would invest in a nice smart UPS whilst you're at it - doesn't need to be new - just something enough to give the NAS the opportunity to shut down nicely in the event of a power outage. Something line-interactive. 

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34 minutes ago, gregmacc said:

Could you explain a couple of tems for me:  "SMB" ... "AFS" ... "Roon can mount the remote share like a disk"

SMB - Sever Message Block: A Windows centric file sharing protocol

AFS - Apple File Share Protocol: An apple centric file sharing protocol

 

You can share content from your NAS using these protocols so that Windows or Apple machines can access the data.  I run Roon on a Mac Mini and it connects to my NAS using AFS.

 

Does that help?

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6 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Synology works fine. Have one 8-bay unit, have installed many. The decent units start at 4/5 bays. 

 

Get 2 HDDs to start with. 

 

Streaming music doesn't not require tons of resources so something with a ton of RAM isn't necessary though having the ability to upgrade it with more is great in the event you want to do something different e.g. run it as a video recorder for a bunch of security cameras.

 

HDD choices are what you need, NAS-spec, x2. Some makes give more diagnostic data per HDD and that's nice (Synology and some Seagate drives, for instance). 

 

Cloud backup, emailing you when something isn't quite right, etc.. all easy to setup. 

 

Would invest in a nice smart UPS whilst you're at it - doesn't need to be new - just something enough to give the NAS the opportunity to shut down nicely in the event of a power outage. Something line-interactive. 

Thanks rmpfyf ... I can see benefits in 4bay and starting with X2 drives for sure ... especially if the 4bay came with faster CPU/more memory (future proofing).

I'm thinking Seagate Ironwolf X2 8TB drives.

The UPS is a great suggestion.

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In my case, my files are on a Syno DS918+ which has 4GB RAM (and a UPS), runs fine. I use the native App that comes with the Streamer (Lightning DS) to access and stream the files, and I also use Roon at times if I want to cast to other devices in the home. RAM shouldn't be an issue, but it is pretty easy to upgrade if you want..

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Another vote for Synology, even the consumer type two-bay units are reliable and have good functionality.

A two-bay model with a pair of WD Red drives of suitable size in RAID 1 will make a good value option for you.

Another vote also for MP3Tag as a good metadata editor for your audio file collection.

 

QNAP are also a credible NAS maker if a Synology is hard to come by.

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I have a 2 bay Synology that's about 5 years old,hasn't skipped a beat.It's been on 24/7 all that time,but what I'm most impressed with is the support from Synology. I still get emails and notifications regarding OS updates after all this time. Synology don't seem to have the same degree of so-called "planned obsolescence" that many manufacturers have adopted,and for me this speaks volumes. One very happy customer!!

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1 hour ago, pwstereo said:

Another vote for Synology, even the consumer type two-bay units are reliable and have good functionality.

A two-bay model with a pair of WD Red drives of suitable size in RAID 1 will make a good value option for you.

Another vote also for MP3Tag as a good metadata editor for your audio file collection.

 

QNAP are also a credible NAS maker if a Synology is hard to come by.

Thanks PW ... your response is "music to my ears"

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31 minutes ago, oots said:

I have a 2 bay Synology that's about 5 years old,hasn't skipped a beat.It's been on 24/7 all that time,but what I'm most impressed with is the support from Synology. I still get emails and notifications regarding OS updates after all this time. Synology don't seem to have the same degree of so-called "planned obsolescence" that many manufacturers have adopted,and for me this speaks volumes. One very happy customer!!

Thanks Oots ... so good to hear this ?

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3 hours ago, recur said:

I'd not buy a 4 bay unit and underpopulate it.

 

If you want to expand the RAID array to more disks, it can be complicated and sometimes requires re-establishment of the RAID array, wiping the disks.

Non-issue - just create separate volumes.

 

Starting with what you can afford isn't a bad thing. Expanding needn't kill the volume if you want to expand either.

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48 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said:

Without derailing the thread, what UPS comes recommended for this sort of setup?  I have an NVR for cameras and an alarm system as well that may benefit, with a NAS yet to come.  Mat

 ... derail away ... watching this for UPS recommendations too ?

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Guest rmpfyf
11 hours ago, Mat-with-one-t said:

Without derailing the thread, what UPS comes recommended for this sort of setup?  I have an NVR for cameras and an alarm system as well that may benefit, with a NAS yet to come.  Mat

 

APC Smart UPS or Smart-X UPS are easy to work with. Parts (batteries) are easy to fit and inexpensive to purchase. The expansion card you need to tell a NAS to look after itself and power down at the appropriate time (and that will email you when power goes squiffy) are around $100 s/h. 

 

You will have many experts here swearing black and blue that second hand is bad. Ignore them. If you can get a demo that something works and the price is right, there is very little to break. 

 

If you're putting it in a room get something line interactive (i.e. something that only kicks on when the power goes out). Otherwise get whatever you want and put it elsewhere. 

 

If you are doing this locally that's fine, if you want to do it super super then call a sparkie, have the UPS wired as an independent feed into your switchboard and then have a circuit wired off that to whatever you want supported - typically I use red GPOs to signify UPS power - and then you put the UPS in your garage/server rack/etc and have it as big as you like. 

 

If you want it to go long then consider the Smart-X - you can expand these with another battery (more energy, same power). Smart UPS cannot be expanded, but in some cases you can daisy chain them.

 

For most server applications the 750VA models are fine. I hang the switches, router, WAP and NAS off mine - the router has cellular failover so I get a message when the mains goes out, I can see that the switchboard has or hasn't been tampered with, and the (PoE) cameras still all work.

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