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Best DAC to revive digital listening


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@evil c The Auralic Aries - previous model comes up for sale at about $1,200 used here at certain intervals. It is very good value for money as it is not far off the newer model which is more than 3 times the price. It will be a better streamer than the bluesound. And if you do not like it you can sell it for about the same price. (According to the comments on the web it can do Radio Paradise.)

 

If that does not assist with the process - see if you should try a different flavour than Chord. (I have never heard one, but comments are that some like them and some not). Maybe see if you can get a Hugo used at a good price to try?

 

My suggestion re dac's would be to buy almost any Gieseler dac that comes up here for sale and try it - you can always move it on. 

 

By doing a bit of experimentation might get the music flowing again!

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A LUMIN D2 or T2 will let you have a good looking, easy to use interface with Tidal, Spotify and Radio support. 
 

Radio Paradise is supported as a stream on the LUMIN under Internet Radio.

 

The LUMIN is also a roon endpoint and quite a decent DAC to boot.

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Have you considered some of Schiit's multi-bit DACS.  The Modi Muilti $250USD plus ship or the Biforst 2 $699USD plus ship (factory direct for their website).  Both built around a multi-bit DAC chip similar to the old Phillips chip and the R2Rs workarounds, plus have great reviews, providing a similar presentation.  Would be a different experience to the Qutest and wouldn't break the bank.  Chord and Schiit (the multi-bit DACs) have a lot in common, as both have unique DAC designs compared to other companies, might be your style?  Some food for thought anyway.

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9 hours ago, evil c said:

Being less "techy" than guys like you - probably more after an easier interface like a Bluesound etc. offers.

I did consider an older Antipodes but they seem to have issues with maintaining connection and less user friendly for my situation. 

Aurender look very good in this regard.

 

I have been waiting for you to comment Mark as know you're into the digital realm!

As stated above - can I  configure it relatively easily and play Radio Paradise? ?

BluOS is one of the easiest to use intrefaces.  Agree an older Antipodes is less user friendly. The SMS-200 is a little better than an older Antipodes but is behind BluOS in usability.  Do not know Aurender.  Both Lumin and Auralic are also easy to use.

 

One thing to mention is that both BluOS and SMS-200 are well supported by BlueSound and SOtM respectively.

 

The Pi solutions do require more techy knowledge, especially for trouble shooting.

9 hours ago, frednork said:

 

@Snoopy8 is a bit of an expert on a non roon sms200 and getting it to do things.

Easiest way to enable Radio Paradise on SMS-200 is to use LMS/Squeezelite and enable the plugin.

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I would try separate the streamer and dac... if possible..

 

dacs i would try not jump on the dac of the month... as they tend to come and go out of flavour... rather look at something that could last through the ages...something love the sound off and be a better chance of that. My two dacs in the house...ones from 25 years ago ! other one from a maker that went defunct more than 10 years ago ! :D both sound great.

 

with streamers the user interface is an important thing. maybe more or less important to the evil one but a frustrating interface that gets in way of the music is just a put off and more chance not want to really want to use it and get into things...

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Not sure you can combine this device into your system with your streamer etc. Not cheap but a Denafrips GAIA. Could read up a bit yourself.

 

Was just reading up on one last night and saw this on a forum

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Gaia arrived a couple days ago, so it is not even close to being fully burned in and sounding its best, but I will just make a few preliminary comments about what I am hearing. First, if there is a better D/D converter on the planet, I'd sure like to hear it. If anyone is thinking this is just a box to convert one digital format to another, that couldn't be further from reality. You need to think of it as a sonic enhancer.

I am floored by the improvements the Gaia is making to a Chord Qutest and I have a decent amount of prior experience with other very top of the line D/D converters, the Gaia improvements are much, much bigger than improvements I experience with these other top D/D converters. The improvements to the sound stage and transparency are huge. Holographic for days. I'm in heaven.

More thoughts after my Gaia burns in and my Terminator Plus arrives.
 

My personal, entirely subjective impressions using the Gaia with the Chord Qutest: (I now have my Terminator Plus, I will post some thoughts about that combo later- the TPlus is still new and burning in):

The Gaia transforms the Qutest. I had to keep checking myself since the Gaia arrived to make sure I was hearing the magnitude of change I believed I was hearing. Yep, it is real. I could see the Qutest+Gaia combo as an "end game" combo for the vast majority of audiophiles.

If I had been listening to the Qutest just by itself for a long time, and then I was blind-folded and someone connected the Gaia to the Qutest, but told me they had inserted a Dave*, I would believe them and immediately start figuring out how long it would take me to save up for the Dave because hearing the improvements, it would be difficult to go without. Again, though, that is just me.

*I have not heard the Dave in my system and thus I am not saying a Qutest+Gaia would equal a Dave. I am just trying to express the magnitude of the change. After my years of buying and trying different DAC's in my system, I view the Gaia improvements to comfortably exceed one, and possibly equal even two DAC model jumps within a manufacturer's DAC line.

Another data point: I loved my Berkelely Alpha USB D/D converter and it improved every DAC to which it was connected (most recently a Yggy Analog 2). The sonic improvements brought by Gaia exceed the sonic improvements from the Berkeley by a rather large margin.

I'd love to put a Gaia up against a PhoenixUSB or Chord M Scaler just to see how it compares (yes, I appreciate these are differing devices and it would be a somewhat flawed comparison due to the different connection types). If you simply view all of these devices as "sonic improvement" devices at differing price points, which at the end of the day is what they are (thinking of the Gaia as merely a tool to convert to a different digital type is really missing the big point of the Gaia), the Gaia might prove to be a cheaper alternative for a given amount of sonic improvement.

What are the primary sonic improvements? Dramatic (on an audiophile rating scale- i.e. not to my wife's rating scale) improvements to holography/sound staging and transparency (hearing even more musical information, details, the impression of the recording venue, etc). The sound stage is huge and there is so much air between the performers. I really value those aspects. If those sonic attributes are not what floats your boat, then move along, nothing to see here.

Finally, as a Terminator Plus owner, the ability to take advantage of the TPlus' clock output to the upstream Gaia, is more icing on the Gaia cake.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I my self have tried quite a few Dacs and it has always been a similar result where longer listening seems to leave me cold and not really wanting to listen, where my LP's seem to always keep involved.

It was not until I tried a R2R dac that it changed. Also took messing with a better power supply and a Singxer device too.

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@evil c Can highly recommend the Aqua La Scala though by the sounds of it out of budget.  R2R and Valve combination.  If we ever get out of this bloody lockdown have a listen at HeyNow.

 

The Auralic Aries G1 is also a fantastic Streamer.  Dead easy to configure and operates seamlessly, Roon endpoint, Spotify connect, Tidal and your own library.  Will rip CD's if you plug an external CD drive into its USB port.

 

Cheers

Edited by AlurkA
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Whether its Denafrips, Matrix Audio, Auralic, Lumin or others, the Chinese are smashing the digital device market atm. I've gone way over budget with an Auralic Vega G2.1 and am loving it. Can't believe I'm thinking of adding an Aries G2.1 to match 

Edited by mjs
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10 hours ago, betty boop said:

there should be more to explore here, valves and dacs always make for a welcome combination ?D 

 

ayon...?  perhaps class A audio has one to check out :) 

Wife has you on high alert al, after all the money you've spent of mine! ?

10 hours ago, RankStranger said:

Sorry, if you’ve mentioned it but do you use Roon? If you don’t then the interface can make or break a streaming experience. I haven’t used Blusound but I understand it to be good. Auralic’s Lightning is very good. Many other streamers you just have to choose a upnp app and most of them are hot garbage. Mostly goes for raspberry Pi control UIs too IME

 

other advantage to the Altair in particular (I don’t work for Auralic, I swear) is that you can stick an ssd in it and it becomes a self-contained server/streamer/dac which saves stuffing around with nas/nucs

I do keep on hearing about the benefits of Roon.

I'm open to the concept, however exxy for the yearly licence or more so for life!

 

Wow, lot of good suggestions and a lot to wade through. 

 

I've been offered a Schiit Yggdrasil analog 2 by someone,  and it does look like a decent DAC at an affordable price 2nd hand- and leaves me with a few k to get a streamer.

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16 minutes ago, AlurkA said:

@evil c Can highly recommend the Aqua La Scala though by the sounds of it out of budget.  R2R and Valve combination.  If we ever get out of this bloody lockdown have a listen at HeyNow.

 

The Auralic Aries G1 is also a fantastic Streamer.  Dead easy to configure and operates seamlessly, Roon endpoint, Spotify connect, Tidal and your own library.  Will rip CD's if you plug an external CD drive into its USB port.

 

Cheers

That's touted as one of the main competitors for the Abbas Audio DAC's on the Russian thread I read over on dastereo.

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Why not do away with a streamer altogether. What is it doing that’s so necessary? 
Reduce boxes and complexity by going for the simplest most direct route - USB from your computer to dac. Try it.  
You can have Tidal and all your files running through Roon or Audivarna (much cheaper, good sound, not as nice an interface) . Simple remote on iPad or phone. 

Edited by buddyev
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7 minutes ago, buddyev said:

Why not do away with a streamer altogether. What is it doing that’s so necessary? 

I've been waiting for someone to suggest this. While the Node2i is a highly capable streamer (and its DAC is also respectable), and I've heard it in use in $100K+ systems, the least amount of components in the chain is always going to be best. Look for a DAC with streaming built-in. I think you're a Roon convert now aren't you @evil c? So I'd be adding Roon Ready to your criteria for a new DAC.

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The Lumin D2 and AURALiC Altair G1 both spring to mind as potential candidates within your budget.

 

Altair: https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/auralic-altair-g1-streaming-dac-preamplifier-review

Lumin: https://www.stereo.net.au/news/get-60-days-free-roon-with-lumin-d2-streamer

 

You'd want to audition both, so see if you can get a home trial given the current Melbourne situation.

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28 minutes ago, AlurkA said:

@evil c Can highly recommend the Aqua La Scala though by the sounds of it out of budget.  R2R and Valve combination.  If we ever get out of this bloody lockdown have a listen at HeyNow.

 

The Auralic Aries G1 is also a fantastic Streamer.  Dead easy to configure and operates seamlessly, Roon endpoint, Spotify connect, Tidal and your own library.  Will rip CD's if you plug an external CD drive into its USB port.

 

Cheers

Funnily enough I was recommended it in a  conversation with Geoff the other day!

13 minutes ago, MattyW said:

That's touted as one of the main competitors for the Abbas Audio DAC's on the Russian thread I read over on dastereo.

Wow , competition with it you say?

Well I would like to hear them side by side before I'd rely on it. ?

Although the Abbas do look very good value for money wise.

14 minutes ago, buddyev said:

Why not do away with a streamer altogether. What is it doing that’s so necessary? 
Reduce boxes and complexity by going for the simplest most direct route - USB from your computer to dac. Try it.  
You can have Tidal and all your files running through Roon or Audivarna (much cheaper, good sound, not as nice an interface) . Simple remote on iPad or phone. 

Now you're just complicating things Russ! ?

 

6 minutes ago, Marc said:

I've been waiting for someone to suggest this. While the Node2i is a highly capable streamer (and its DAC is also respectable), and I've heard it in use in $100K+ systems, the least amount of components in the chain is always going to be best. Look for a DAC with streaming built-in. I think you're a Roon convert now aren't you @evil c? So I'd be adding Roon Ready to your criteria for a new DAC.

Same goes to you Marc ! 

 

Tell you what I'll stump up the 5k, and see what you can do. ?

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2 minutes ago, Marc said:

The Lumin D2 and AURALiC Altair G1 both spring to mind as potential candidates within your budget.

 

Altair: https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/auralic-altair-g1-streaming-dac-preamplifier-review

Lumin: https://www.stereo.net.au/news/get-60-days-free-roon-with-lumin-d2-streamer

 

You'd want to audition both, so see if you can get a home trial given the current Melbourne situation.

Cheers ! ?

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5 minutes ago, evil c said:

I've been offered a Schiit Yggdrasil analog 2 by someone,  and it does look like a decent DAC at an affordable price 2nd hand- and leaves me with a few k to get a streamer.

The Yggy gets good wraps. In that case I would recommend the Auralic ARIES G1 (as mentioned by @AlurkA) Excellent reviews, build quality, features and ease of use, about $3.5k, maybe even less in Black Friday sales in the not too distant future  

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Guest rmpfyf
17 hours ago, evil c said:

In the current lockdown,  I like many others have struggled to maintain my enthusiasm for my system. 

More than happy with the analog side after a few tweaks , but my Chord Qutest while a very nice DAC - just can't help feeling I'm missing something! (Besides golf and fishing!) ?

 

So after a brief investigation and talking with someone in the audio industry - it seems there are certainly better DACs out there than the Qutest. 

 

So I would appreciate input from more knowledgeable/ enlightened people on a good update path and brands / models to consider. 

Know @MattyW likes R2R and Phillips chips plus a few Holo fans out there. 

Valves in the DAC stage are certainly welcome. 

 

Budget is yet to be decided but most likely sub 5k.

Anyway please let me know your thoughts. 

 

R2R + valves for something different, or just play with a tube buffer.

 

On the former - AN, Abbas, Killer, Lampi to name a few

On the latter - no need to go big, I'd hunt yourself a Dodd tube buffer and roll away

 

Neither is an exercise in perfection though there's much enjoyment to be had.

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8 minutes ago, buddyev said:

Where is your laptop? Put it next to your dac and usb it. dead easy

Laptop??

I have a very small hand held for that function!

My Cockateils would love to have a laptop to munch on . ?

 

I dunno, I'm really torn with all the suggestions - I am running out of space on the racks for extra components so maybe a good Streamer DAC might solve that problem. 

 

Although practicality has rarely entered the equation in my journey so far! ?

And I don't want to compromise on the quality of the sound.

Stack em high!

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4 minutes ago, evil c said:

Laptop??

I have a very small hand held for that function!

My Cockateils would love to have a laptop to munch on . ?

 

I dunno, I'm really torn with all the suggestions - I am running out of space on the racks for extra components so maybe a good Streamer DAC might solve that problem. 

 

Although practicality has rarely entered the equation in my journey so far! ?

Stack em high!

Don't you have your music files on a computer? Or are you just streaming tidal?

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3 minutes ago, evil c said:

dunno, I'm really torn with all the suggestions - I am running out of space on the racks for extra components so maybe a good Streamer DAC might solve that problem. 

 

Although practicality has rarely entered the equation in my journey so far! ?

Stack em high!

only because you have those racks packed in with all those ornaments :D

 

ps should tap into @Darren69 I think he has gone through a few iterations and share some thoughts...

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20 minutes ago, Marc said:

The Lumin D2 and AURALiC Altair G1 both spring to mind as potential candidates within your budget.

 

Altair: https://www.stereo.net.au/reviews/auralic-altair-g1-streaming-dac-preamplifier-review

Lumin: https://www.stereo.net.au/news/get-60-days-free-roon-with-lumin-d2-streamer

 

You'd want to audition both, so see if you can get a home trial given the current Melbourne situation.

I think these are both good suggestions, but there are always pros and cons on separate or combined streaming capability vs what level of performance you are looking to achieve. Separate components gives you the opportunity to improve one or other components in due course against accepting (or wasting time) on a compromised single unit. For example, the suggestion of Yggy and Auralic Aries G1 will undoubtedly give you better performance than both of the above single box solutions. Alternatively, you just go for a higher specc'd single box at greater cost again. The Auralic Vega G2.1 streaming DAC fits into this category as do others from other makers. The Vega G1 gives you almost the same at a cheaper (but still substantial) price point

 

BTW, another ROON convert here, even though I also use Lightning DS to control my Auralic

Edited by mjs
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3 minutes ago, mjs said:

the suggestion of Yggy and Auralic Aries G1 will undoubtedly give you better performance than both of the above single box solutions

Unless I'm very much mistaken, they are above the mentioned budget of $5K. 

If the budget is higher than $5K, there are many alternatives I would suggest based on my experience.

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