Power supply from fuse box

[Sean Perth]

Hi

im having some electrical work done soon and wondered if it was worth getting the sparkie to run power from fuse box straight to a double socket in my Audio Room 

thoughts 

 

thanks 

[andyr]

12 minutes ago, Sean Perth said:

Hi

im having some electrical work done soon and wondered if it was worth getting the sparkie to run power from fuse box straight to a double socket in my Audio Room 

thoughts 

 

thanks 

 

Absolutely - except I would say get the sparkie to install, say, 4x double sockets on this power cable (not just 1). 

 

Andy

 

[LogicprObe]

 

Yes, but you might as well get a quad socket or two doubles.

 

[Decky]

....with separate 2.5mm^2 wiring to each of them

[Assisi]

9 minutes ago, Decky said:

....with separate 2.5mm^2 wiring to each of them

Better still use

http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/in-wall-cable-gigawatt-lc-y-mk3-3x4/

Seriously outcome.

 

John

 

[Lochawe]

3 hours ago, Assisi said:

Better still use

http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/in-wall-cable-gigawatt-lc-y-mk3-3x4/

Seriously outcome.

 

John

 

YES YES YES!

And while you are at it, use minimum 4mm2 wiring but if you can afford $65/m then I strongly advise you go with Gigawatt for sure and by the way the LCYMk3 is now superceded by Gigawatt LCY-EVO.

And you will also get much better performance from installing industrial Clipsal 56 Series wall outlets with high current capacity 32A switch.

Domestic 10A GPO have very modest sized contacts compared to the 10A 56 Series outlets which are actually 20A but with 10A fascia.

Also install Gigawatt G-C16A Circuit Breaker if you can!!

 

[Sean Perth]

Thanks for all replies will discuss with sparkie 

what difference will it make to my system 

thanks 

[LogicprObe]

 

Most sparkies will think you are mad.

[Lochawe]

5 minutes ago, Sean Perth said:

Thanks for all replies will discuss with sparkie 

what difference will it make to my system 

thanks 

If your sparkie has not wired up a dedicated circuit to an audiophile's system before he will think you are totally mad...

On the strength of the majority of people that have upgraded their AC power to their system (of which there are gazillions of testimonials across the globe on every forum you wish to scrutinise) it will improve your system performance in so many ways it is hard to know where to start.

It did in my room.

[Sean Perth]

Thanks  

[LogicprObe]

 

Also, make sure it is wired to it's own dedicated breaker, not just shoved onto an existing one.

[Guest rmpfyf]

6 hours ago, Sean Perth said:

Hi

im having some electrical work done soon and wondered if it was worth getting the sparkie to run power from fuse box straight to a double socket in my Audio Room 

thoughts 

 

thanks 

 

Depends what you're powering. One circuit may do you, if you're planning on putting mega power amps and low-draw sensitive stuff on the same circuit and you're being perfect about you may want to split them.

 

Wouldn't recommend the suggested Gigawatt breaker as it is not legal in Australia. Current regs require all final subcircuits to be 30mA RCD protected.

 

4mm wire is not expensive though be clear with your sparkie that you're not putting a proportionate load on it (i.e. that the RCBO is sized to load correctly).

 

The quality of wire (audiophile or not) doesn't make a significant difference, resi sparkies don't deal with noise often though many industrials do and shielding wire in high EMI environments does make a difference. Good wire run badly does not beat usual wire run well. From a conductivity perspective you can go 6mm if you like or more. If you want screened power cable, get VSD cable, and make sure your sparky is happy clipping a round cable back.

 

Solid core cable is a PITA to work with compared to stranded cores... you will get more surface area clamping on whatever you're trying to mate to with strand unless it's specifically designed.

 

You will gain more getting your earthing right. If you're running 4/6/etc mm cable, be aware your earth wire won't be same thickness, so ask for a separate core run accordingly. It's also possible to run your earth from the breakers to the earth stake directly - makes a difference. And if you're game, have said sparky run a second stake and tie it to the first.

 

56 series GPOs are great, though others have just as much contact area and aren't quite as industrial. Get the 56's online if you do; they're a ton cheaper as such.

 

If you're super game, have one circuit wired with an inline filter - Thor make some nice units.

Edited August 8, 2020 by rmpfyf

[Guest rmpfyf]

1 hour ago, Aperalim said:

And while you are at it, use minimum 4mm2 wiring but if you can afford $65/m then I strongly advise you go with Gigawatt for sure and by the way the LCYMk3 is now superceded by Gigawatt LCY-EVO.

 

Holy crap that's EUR30/m for what's essentially rebranded low-grade VSD cable that doesn't meet local standards. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just that... that's very expensive. 

 

Lapp or Electra (among others, both local) will have you covered if your sparkie agrees.

[andyr]

30 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

 

Solid core cable is a PITA to work with compared to stranded cores... you will get more surface area clamping on whatever you're trying to mate to with strand unless it's specifically designed.

 

 

Many years ago, I bought some 2.5mm ^2 solid core 3-wire flat - do you know whether solid-core 2.5mm ^2 can still be bought?

 

(I would like to use it as mains wire instead of stranded, inside various components I build.)

 

Andy

 

[Lochawe]

33 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Wouldn't recommend the suggested Gigawatt breaker as it is not legal in Australia. Current regs require all final subcircuits to be 30mA RCD protected.

Are you certain the Gigawatt G-C16A is not certified for use in Australia?

Doesn't it just need to be in a sub panel with said RCD?  That is exactly how my current fuse box is set up (house totally rewired a few years ago) with at least 8 CircuitBreakers that are not integrated with an RCD but sitting alongside one in one of three sub-panels.

 

[Craig G]

OMG just did a dedicated line  last month!! improved all areas dramatically !

Edited August 8, 2020 by Craig G

[Guest rmpfyf]

17 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Many years ago, I bought some 2.5mm ^2 solid core 3-wire flat - do you know whether solid-core 2.5mm ^2 can still be bought?

 

(I would like to use it as mains wire instead of stranded, inside various components I build.)

 

Andy

 

 

I just threw a bunch of it out post this renovation, you could have had it free  (my sparky was rapt to get rid of it).

 

I would imagine you can get it, just like you can get super-soft very-high-strand-count wire for various purposes. Auslec keeps it in their catalogue and some eBay resellers have it too (see item 162923646053, albeit out of stock).

 

21 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

Are you certain the Gigawatt G-C16A is not certified for use in Australia?

Doesn't it just need to be in a sub panel with said RCD?  That is exactly how my current fuse box is set up (house totally rewired a few years ago) with at least 8 CircuitBreakers that are not integrated with an RCD but sitting alongside one in one of three sub-panels.

 

Since mid-2018 with a 6 month grandfathering clause, all subs must have a 30mA RCD. You used to be able to have a few circuits protected by a single RCD; not anymore. 

 

Would argue that if you're going through a RCD/RCBO/CB and then installing an 'audiophile' breaker (on the premise that said audiophile breaker has better performance) the net effect on the circuit is degradation by the same logic. 

 

Haven't seen any local standards compliance for the G-C16A though as a device it is not permitted for the OP's purpose. 

 

If you're worried about conductivity, up the core diameter.

 

If you're worried about noise etc, look at earthing and filtering stuff in your house that creates noise. If you're super worried, run the audio circuit on a balanced isolation trans with a dedicated earth done legally.

 

I get what Gigawatt is trying to do - power engineers deal with it daily, solutions exist.

[Lochawe]

47 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Since mid-2018 with a 6 month grandfathering clause, all subs must have a 30mA RCD. You used to be able to have a few circuits protected by a single RCD; not anymore. 

So will everyone need to repopulate their sub-panels with 1 RCD per circuit?

[Guest rmpfyf]

48 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

So will everyone need to repopulate their sub-panels with 1 RCD per circuit?

New work only... (RCBOs not RCDs)

Edited August 8, 2020 by rmpfyf

[Guest rmpfyf]

And @Sean Perth - get the right bits together and have your sparkie knock up some power cables for you whilst there - Clipsal plugs, VSD cable (whatever they agree to), decent IECs (if terminating as such) and whatever other bits.... It'll never be cheaper.

 

I'd add a ferrite at the entry and use the earth core within a usual VSD set as a drain wire. You get a nice thick earth, mega screening and twisted cores. You can even get the drain wire split.

 

Lapp sells direct to public - their website is worth a look, particularly the VSD stuff. It's the basis of a LOT of 'audiophile' power cable.

Edited August 8, 2020 by rmpfyf

[Guest rmpfyf]

Sorry to drain this thread though just checking on the 56 series - whether 10A or 20A they both take up to 6mm core... So that's your max.

 

As to whether they're an advantage or not, I have a 56 and an Iconic on my desk today - if you want photos in any way, ask.

 

56s retail like crazy but they can be had new silly cheap on ebay.

 

You'd go the 15A at least so you can use super nice extension boards out of server environments no worries imho

[Ittaku]

Multiple runs have the potential for inducing earth loops between components. Go with one super fat one instead. Given the option, you could put 20A powerpoints on the wall as well - you can plug ordinary 10A leads into it but it gives you the option of using 20A plugs if you end up getting custom made power cables which have more contact area. I had 3 separate lines put in - one for each power amp and one for the rest of the components, and it only introduced problems with my sensitive preamp and found everything worked better off the one line. You can see the 20A connectors below. The power cord on the left now powers everything (to a regenerator) using a custom modified power cord with the CLIPSAL 1439/20TR | 3 Pin 20Amp PlugTop connector. In my experience all of the rewiring made zero positive difference to the sound, but at least I need not worry about tripping breakers in combination with other components that were on the same circuit before the rewiring.

 

[andyr]

11 hours ago, rmpfyf said:

 

I would imagine you can get it, just like you can get super-soft very-high-strand-count wire for various purposes. Auslec keeps it in their catalogue and some eBay resellers have it too (see item 162923646053, albeit out of stock).

 

 

Thanks - I'll try them on Monday.

 

Andy

 

 

[Lochawe]

43 minutes ago, Ittaku said:

Multiple runs have the potential for inducing earth loops between components. Go with one super fat one instead. Given the option, you could put 20A powerpoints on the wall as well - you can plug ordinary 10A leads into it but it gives you the option of using 20A plugs if you end up getting custom made power cables which have more contact area. I had 3 separate lines put in - one for each power amp and one for the rest of the components, and it only introduced problems with my sensitive preamp and found everything worked better off the one line. You can see the 20A connectors below. The power cord on the left now powers everything (to a regenerator) using a custom modified power cord with the CLIPSAL 1439/20TR | 3 Pin 20Amp PlugTop connector. In my experience all of the rewiring made zero positive difference to the sound, but at least I need not worry about tripping breakers in combination with other components that were on the same circuit before the rewiring.

 

I also concur that one single circuit is worth considering (in spite of widespread recommendations for 'more circuits are better') and it worked better for my system compared to multiple dedicate circuits. I tried this in my own room after being advised by a number of good friends around the world (who had transitioned from very well considered systems with multiple dedicated circuits), confirmed their were advantages to running the entire system from one single circuit.  In. my case, it has enabled an unparalleled sense of coherence, which was remarkable given this was already a hallmark characteristic of my system.  @Sean Perth – I still recommend 56 Series outlets which gives you advantage of 20A connection without needing to use 20A AUS AC plugs.  The 56 Series outlets have a 20A rated backend with a 10A fascia with which will allow you to use premium AC plugs like Furutech AU3112 for example with snug fit which will easily outperform any 20 A plug with inferior metallurgy (brass versus Furutech's high purity copper).  The switch comparison between 10A domestic GPO and 56 Series 32A makes that choice a no brainer from what I can see.

 

1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

Lapp sells direct to public - their website is worth a look, particularly the VSD stuff. It's the basis of a LOT of 'audiophile' power cable.

Regarding the Gigawatt cable and Circuit Breaker (which IS a rebadged Magnetic Circuit Breaker manufactured by world leading industrial manufacturer CarlingSwitch in US)  – and whether the cable is simply rebadged LAPP or some other manufacturer's 'readily available' VSD cable, I am not entirely sure – but I know many people that have installed the Gigawatt LCY cables across Australia and it seems that the supplier cannot actually keep up with demand because word of mouth testimony has ben so strong.  I understood the cable is certified for use in Australia but I am not able to personally confirm this as factual or not. Given it is being widely installed would suggest that there are numerous electricians willing to install it which I would have assumed could not be the case if this cable was obviously non-compliant.

 

Either way @Sean Perth, here is a review of the Gigawatt cable and Circuit Breaker that makes for interesting reading and compares several other more standard in-wall cabling options:

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/accessories-reviews/gigawatt-part-1/

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Aperalim
typo

[Sean Perth]

Thanks 

that’s a lot to get my head around 

will be talking to my sparkie I’m sure he will understand more than I do 

sean