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Is the RX8 an investment?


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A bit rude to derail a thread, but here you are......:)  

Sorry to de-rail the thread. Makes me feel young again looking at the photos.    

I always planned to buy a ground up restored RX4, my dream car, and back in the late 90's there was plenty around for under 10k. But today an RX4 in average condition sells for $40k. A ground up resto

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2 hours ago, ArthurDent said:

It's up the government to set the sulphur content of our fuels. Should have been brought into line with the rest of the World a few years back but nah, they let it ride. What's wrong with this graphic?

Maximum Gasoline Sulfur Limits (2018).jpg

 

Yes, correct.

 

What else do you see? It's in the map.

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6 hours ago, bob_m_54 said:

Every time I take my HDJ78R 2003 Landcruiser Troop Carrier to get something done on it, they always drool over the engine, and have had a few offers of buying it. It's the 4.2L 6cylinder factory turbo (1HD-FTE), and is only just run in with about 260,000Km on the clock. The damn things are almost indestructible and still have plenty of get up and go, for distance travelling. The only thing that lets them down a bit is the comfort, but that's not why I bought it anyway. I plan to get buried in mine.. LOL

That is the absolute pinnacle in the history of Troopies.  I drove them for a living for over 10 years. When the turbo came out it halved my fuel use., 11 people, massive trailer. The  late 90’s version with the brittle Hilux gear box was the death for anyone who did a lot of towing, catastrophic failures with no warning. Once the V8 went in the ludicrous difference in front and rear track would drive you to dispair, now with dpf et al they are simply too complex. 
 

The only thing I would change on the 1HD-FTE is the fly by wire throttle which is not an item I wish to fix in the bush. It was the first series that would drop into ‘limp’ mode with a lot of sensors that would throw a wobbly but with these modern ( cheap) engine scanners you can override the fault codes to get you out of trouble.  
 

Money in the bank Bob, there is just no depreciation, I dare say it may actually be increasing in value. I would own one in a heart beat, the ultimate outback tour vehicle, tough as an axe and simple enough to fix when you really need to.  There is nothing on the market before or since that provides a more perfect mix for the job it was designed to do. 

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13 hours ago, DrSK said:

Not so much the brands, but the limited options available. Eg car body engine combinations. Every combo needs an ADR test. From what Audi told me, $1m added expense per combo. 

 

That's the same in every market unless you're grey importing.

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1 hour ago, rmpfyf said:

 

That's the same in every market unless you're grey importing.

Aussie is particularly bad. More options in NZ even when new. The grey imports, drove competition for better options from dealers. 

 

And with recent Aussie law changes, grey importing from NZ, either NZ dealers or previous NZ import makes things simpler than flying to the UK to buy a car. 

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31 minutes ago, DrSK said:

Aussie is particularly bad. More options in NZ even when new. The grey imports, drove competition for better options from dealers. 

 

And with recent Aussie law changes, grey importing from NZ, either NZ dealers or previous NZ import makes things simpler than flying to the UK to buy a car. 

 

Depends. I used to think that way (I also used to work in jap import compliancing when much younger) until I ended up (many years later) working at an auto company here. You can't sell grey imports into the fleet market, and fleet sales in Australia are very significant. Our fleet passenger vehicle sales are more than the entire NZ auto market. Has a bunch of knock-on effects in the market. 

 

This said you're right, opening things up for the enthusiast market is awesome.

 

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Goodaye all

 

Burst out laughing when l saw cars as a investment, then settled down.

Beleive it or not l have a few cars, some worth a lot more than they owe me.

 

1940 Chev Sloper, owes me about 20k, value maybe 40K in the US.

More sentimentel value as it was my fathers car.

 

1957 Chev station wagon, will be a loss on this one.

 

HG Prem, purchased by my father in 1980, partially restored, will do well on this one.

 

VK Grp3 had this for 23 years, regulary knock back offers 5 times more than it owes me.

 

My self managed superfund has a LJ GTR Torana that is a rolling shell that has been restored and has nearly all the parts sitting there. Will do well on this one.

 

And then there's the plane l m building, BIG money pit.

 

So what are you going top do with the RX8?

Use it as a club car and enjoy it?

Keep it mothballed and pristine?

In the current climate l dont think you will get any return for 10 years.

 

In nearly 40 years of mucking around with cars l would say maybe l have broke even.

 

regards Bruce

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19 minutes ago, sloper said:

Goodaye all

 

Burst out laughing when l saw cars as a investment, then settled down.

Beleive it or not l have a few cars, some worth a lot more than they owe me.

 

1940 Chev Sloper, owes me about 20k, value maybe 40K in the US.

More sentimentel value as it was my fathers car.

 

1957 Chev station wagon, will be a loss on this one.

 

HG Prem, purchased by my father in 1980, partially restored, will do well on this one.

 

VK Grp3 had this for 23 years, regulary knock back offers 5 times more than it owes me.

 

My self managed superfund has a LJ GTR Torana that is a rolling shell that has been restored and has nearly all the parts sitting there. Will do well on this one.

 

And then there's the plane l m building, BIG money pit.

 

So what are you going top do with the RX8?

Use it as a club car and enjoy it?

Keep it mothballed and pristine?

In the current climate l dont think you will get any return for 10 years.

 

In nearly 40 years of mucking around with cars l would say maybe l have broke even.

 

regards Bruce

 

Bruce your winged investment breaks the pilot's creed regards investment.

 

This said if you're breaking even today you're winning tomorrow, there is no losing in a VK Group 3.... 4 or 5 speed?

LJ GTR Torana same. Prem a bit less but in the right direction. 

 

Nice collection.

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There only worth it if you plan to sell them, even the GTR may sit in the Garage when l retire.

 

Grp3 is 4 speed Silver series one.

 

Its sad at the moment, the only run they get is too work.

 

regards Bruce

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9 minutes ago, sloper said:

There only worth it if you plan to sell them, even the GTR may sit in the Garage when l retire.

 

Grp3 is 4 speed Silver series one.

 

Its sad at the moment, the only run they get is too work.

 

regards Bruce

 

Bullshido. 

He who dies with the most toys wins. As a good friend intuits, you are winning at life.

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21 hours ago, sloper said:

Goodaye all

 

Burst out laughing when l saw cars as a investment, then settled down.

Beleive it or not l have a few cars, some worth a lot more than they owe me.

 

All good! Post was really to start some conversation. 

 

Quote

So what are you going top do with the RX8?

Really just looking for a fun car and I've always wanted a rotary. As I kid I wanted an RX3. Then RX7.

 

Straight line speed, while good is less important to me than cornering. I have been able to enjoy a whole range of cars, some of them crap but predictable. Enjoy extracting what I can from a piece of machinery. Even taking a Harley in the windy bits on a 150cc scooter. 

 

While this sounds odd in RX8 context, always prefered good mid range torque for cornering rather than cammy highly strung engines. Although I've previously found rotaries have their own rules on this with their big rev range between 5k and 9k.

 

Currently own an MY16 A6 Audi Allroad 3.0L TDI turbo with 7 speed DSG paddle shifters on PZeros. Drives way better than a 2 ton diesel has any right to, but the weight of the car isn't friendly on tyres or the car in general when driven harder. Love that Audi still make cars designed to be driven and balanced in corners rather than iPad entertainment systems on wheels. Overall, I reckon most cars are getting worse unless in the sports market. 

 

Would keep the Audi as I need a largish wagon for work and sub 6L/100km is great for trips away. Seems more sensible than going the S car Audi route and trying to get one car to be all. And Aussie dealers don't bring in S6 Avants, only the $280k RS6. And they're still 2 ton vehicles. 

 

Need to go for a test drive and also see if I fit in it. Fitting in cars has always been an issue for headroom. Eg A4s are squishy, S5 no chance. Most newer Subaru, can't see out the front or head touching roof. Mercedes often have issues, 911s and Caymans are fine (maybe one day and Caymans seem good value). 

 

Quote

Use it as a club car and enjoy it?

Most likely occasional track days and trips up the old road. 

 

Essentially an affordable play car that over time may become more of a track car.

 

Had the fortune to do a 1 day introductory motor racing course on 1999 driving a non turbo RX7 at Ruapuna raceway in Christchurch, New Zealand. 10 laps with the instructor in the passenger seat and 10 laps on my own. Always stuck in my head I'd like to have a car capable of a day out. 

 

Quote

Keep it mothballed and pristine?

Probably not. Cars are for driving. So really trying to minimise losses or break even rather than investment. 

Quote

In the current climate l dont think you will get any return for 10 years.

Not a problem. Interesting to see what the RX8 racing series does on prices. 

Edited by DrSK
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5 years ago there was an average of 300 RX8s for sale on carsales. Now it is about 30. The vast majority of RX8 owners scrap the car when the engine dies, as they don't want to spend 9k on a rebuild. In 10 years there will barely be any left. 

 

Factor in around 8-9k in your budget for the inevitable engine rebuild. And always, ALWAYS, get a rotary specific compression test on any car you're looking to purchase.

 

There is also a large difference between the series 1 and series 2 RX8s. Lots of engine changes, different gearbox, different diff. I own a series 1, have never driven a series 2 but they seem to be more reliable, albeit slower. The early series 1 cars only have 1 oil cooler, the later cars have 2. If you're looking to track the car, 2 oil coolers is a must. Even with the cars with 1 oil cooler, the second one bolts right in.

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5 hours ago, DrSK said:

Straight line speed, while good is less important to me than cornering.

Older M3? Might hold value better too, not that I've done any research on it.

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5 hours ago, DrSK said:

Really just looking for a fun car and I've always wanted a rotary. As I kid I wanted an RX3. Then RX7.

I remember all those... RX4 were nice too.. RX7 lost it with later generations ... with the inevitable bloat... only the last of them something caught interest after the early gen ...

 

there are SO many fun cars these days... fun can be had in such different cars too... depends what looking for ....

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18 hours ago, betty boop said:

 RX7 lost it with later generations ... with the inevitable bloat...

 

Huh?

 

1300kg (1210 or so for the SP) with modern safety, decent power and the rest of it.

 

Wheelbase difference between 1st and 3rd gen is 5mm.

Length identical.

 

Won most every production car race it competed against including E36 M3 R, 968 CS as the rest of it. 

 

Yep, totally lost it, absolutely bloated. 

 

If the market for them agrees with you I'll take two at a cut price and wait for reality to catch up with resale values.

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18 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

Huh?

 

1300kg (1210 or so for the SP) with modern safety, decent power and the rest of it.

FC (2nd gen) got out to nearly 1600kg before the FD went to weight watchers. Still light by today's standards but 1st gen started at around 1000kg

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7 minutes ago, blybo said:

FC (2nd gen) got out to nearly 1600kg before the FD went to weight watchers. Still light by today's standards but 1st gen started at around 1000kg

 

FC is indeed the unloved puppy in the litter. Was a little heavier but I don't quite remember it being that much, maybe 100kg lighter for a fully loaded turbo.

 

(Which is prolly why they're the ones to buy now before they jump in value too significantly, though they quite look like the 80's they were designed in).

 

This said the FD is an excellent driver's car. There's really nothing bloated about it, and you can still track down SP bits. Quite amazing that it runs the usual factory turbo and went racing with a range of mod cons Porsche ripped out of the 968 CS... and still beat it. 

 

A good SA is around 1100kg though you'd not want to be in an accident in one. Different times. 

 

What happened to the M3 post the E46... that's 'bloat'. 

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7 minutes ago, rmpfyf said:

This said the FD is an excellent driver's car.

I've never driven one or been in one, but remember being told by a Eunos dealer (remember them?) they were a real handful and secondary turbo had a habit of spooling up just when you didn't want it to. I remember owners telling me in the WRX club that the twin turbo Liberty had the opposite issue, it had a frustrating torque drop as the 2nd kicked in

 

I really wanted a Eunos 30x and a mate got one a few years after they were discontinued. Beautiful car.

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24 minutes ago, blybo said:

they were a real handful and secondary turbo had a habit of spooling up just when you didn't want it to

Not particularly quick by today’s standards either, original rx7 0-100 ... 10 sec ! Series 2 nearly 8 sec ! Series 3 nearly 6 sec which most hot hatches do today. Wouldn’t be buying them for swiftness unless modding which becomes a Shame as charm of these cars are nostalgia and most fetching be the stock  ones unmolested.
 

instead of spending silly money On old things for what  go for,  I’d instead buy a second hand 86/brz, fiat 124/mx5 and be happy

 

but that’s just me :D plenty reasons to buy old things ... as evidenced by the dreamer prices on Carsales ... am sure someone actually buys these things for something there about :D


the rx8 different story as sloper said probably be 10 years yet before start hAving some nostalgia factor. We’ve had good insight on current ownership here in thread to, so definitely some good stuff for op to factor in

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1 hour ago, blybo said:

I've never driven one or been in one, but remember being told by a Eunos dealer (remember them?) they were a real handful and secondary turbo had a habit of spooling up just when you didn't want it to. I remember owners telling me in the WRX club that the twin turbo Liberty had the opposite issue, it had a frustrating torque drop as the 2nd kicked in

 

I really wanted a Eunos 30x and a mate got one a few years after they were discontinued. Beautiful car.

 

If you were peddling Eunos vehicles then yes, anything would seem a bit interesting for power delivery. If you want the full Eunos story, check out the Jalopnik article on Amati. Very interesting history.

 

They were perfectly fine to drive, very much in push-on driving. The a** end of the car gave you road information in Braille which was a love-it-or-hate-it thing. It's a good bit smaller in person than the GT it looks like it might be... it's not a GT per se.

 

47 minutes ago, betty boop said:

Wouldn’t be buying them for swiftness unless modding which becomes a Shame as charm of these cars are nostalgia and most fetching be the stock  ones unmolested.

 

It's one of the few cars where modding can increase value - SP mods in Australia are worth a good bit. 0-100 doesn't exactly win the races they were put into.... or the races they still are put into. It's still popular in Targa racing.

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1 minute ago, rmpfyf said:

If you were peddling Eunos vehicles then yes,

This bloke was the most trustworthy 2nd hand car salesman I ever met, I followed him to 2 dealerships until I lost contact. He wasn't trying to sell me a Eunos. I actually first bought a Mitsibishi Verada from him. For a young kid it was very luxurious and a pretty quick thing. Absolutely bulletproof too, it got abuse it didn't deserve.

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44 minutes ago, blybo said:

This bloke was the most trustworthy 2nd hand car salesman I ever met, I followed him to 2 dealerships until I lost contact. He wasn't trying to sell me a Eunos. I actually first bought a Mitsibishi Verada from him. For a young kid it was very luxurious and a pretty quick thing. Absolutely bulletproof too, it got abuse it didn't deserve.

 

Sure, not ripping on your dealer. 

 

Just that if your baseline was selling Eunos' best efforts at the time then yes, an RX7 would seem unrefined. So would anything sports and period. Eunos were built to a much, much higher standard insofar as refinement than they were sold.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Holy thread resurrection :)

 

As an owner of an RX3 which I've had for about 20 years I thought my opinion may help.  I bought mine for $6k (and modded it pretty extensively).  It's worth a lot more now.  I didn't buy it as an investment back then because nobody thought these cars would go up the way they did.

 

Take it from somebody who has benefited from market price increases on a classic car, don't buy a car for the sake of investing.  You buy it because of your passion in it.  It will require TLC over time - even people who mothball cars still need to spend lots of money on parts and maintenance.  Cars are designed to be moving and parts lubricated.

 

I have a theory that many people are now seeing that newer cars could be worth a lot down the track - this will only hold true if there is a thin market and people have some sort of attachment with that particular model in the future.  As an example It's possible that so many newer Fords and Holdens have been kept as an investment, but they won't go up in value because there'll still be plenty for sale in another 20-40 years.

 

If investing is the aim of your game, invest in a diverse mixture of shares, bonds, property etc. instead.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, qik_shift said:

As an owner of an RX3 which I've had for about 20 years I thought my opinion may help.  I bought mine for $6k (and modded it pretty extensively).  It's worth a lot more now.  I didn't buy it as an investment back then because nobody thought these cars would go up the way they did.

good gosh man you still have one ? :D  you mustn't hold back in posting some pics of it :) 

 

ok not an RX8 but am sure thread wont be defiled by some RX3 goodness :) 

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18 minutes ago, betty boop said:

good gosh man you still have one ? :D  you mustn't hold back in posting some pics of it :) 

 

ok not an RX8 but am sure thread wont be defiled by some RX3 goodness :) 

 

A bit rude to derail a thread, but here you are......:)

 

IMG_0197.JPG

IMG_0198.JPG

IMG_0199.JPG

IMG_0202.JPG

Edited by qik_shift
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12 hours ago, qik_shift said:

A bit rude to derail a thread, but here you are......:)

 

IMG_0197.JPG

IMG_0198.JPG

IMG_0199.JPG

IMG_0202.JPG

Thanks for the pics!  The RX3 is actually what I wanted for years. 

 

Disliked the RX8 when it came out, but think it has aged well and looks better now than then. 

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14 hours ago, qik_shift said:

A bit rude to derail a thread, but here you are......:)

 

IMG_0199.JPG

 

 

thats a great colour QS, I am pretty sure same colour RX7 came out it ? was a really unique one for time.  is it a particular mazda thing colour wise 

 

I like though obviously have modified it ... that have kept the externals and lines looking pretty stock ...

 

What is the interior like ? did you have to do much there to bring to your standards... with older cars I feel its interiors that tend to go most shabby ...not lasting the ages...some cars tend to cope better than others ....some needing more help than others...

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16 minutes ago, betty boop said:

 

thats a great colour QS, I am pretty sure same colour RX7 came out it ? was a really unique one for time.  is it a particular mazda thing colour wise 

 

I like though obviously have modified it ... that have kept the externals and lines looking pretty stock ...

 

What is the interior like ? did you have to do much there to bring to your standards... with older cars I feel its interiors that tend to go most shabby ...not lasting the ages...some cars tend to cope better than others ....some needing more help than others...

Thanks,

 

There was a darker green in the RX3 range that wasn't as popular called jewel green. I loved the colour but wanted to alter it to be lighter.  I ended up with a Holden colour called hothouse green :).

 

Yeah I prefer to keep the exterior of the car quite stock, and I was originally keen to use an original colour, but thought I may as well go for a colour I really wanted - I had modified the drivetrain already quite a bit anyway so what the heck......

 

Mazda interiors have not aged well.  Cracked dashes and split vinyl seats are a pretty common sight.  I have managed to find standard seats and door trims over the years so could revert mine to standard.  I've only got pics of mine from years back, but I changed coloufrom all black to a lighter colour.  You'll notice there's no gear boot or rear door handle trims here.

 

IMG_0201.JPG.626d57760e118a6d004ad633fb34a9d0.JPGIMG_0200.JPG.80165bbd034b2c18f0bec1f1926a888e.JPG

 

The older I get, the keener I am to have something with less power.  It really is a handful to drive!

 

 

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2 hours ago, DrSK said:

Thanks for the pics!  The RX3 is actually what I wanted for years. 

 

Disliked the RX8 when it came out, but think it has aged well and looks better now than then. 

I agree - the RX8 is ageing really well.  The rear doors are particularly a standout which apart from the motor made this Mazda quite unique.

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1 hour ago, qik_shift said:

There was a darker green in the RX3 range that wasn't as popular called jewel green. I loved the colour but wanted to alter it to be lighter.  I ended up with a Holden colour called hothouse green :).

 

Yeah I prefer to keep the exterior of the car quite stock, and I was originally keen to use an original colour, but thought I may as well go for a colour I really wanted - I had modified the drivetrain already quite a bit anyway so what the heck......

 

thats very interesting... in deed if going a colour...why not one you want :) 

 

1 hour ago, qik_shift said:

Mazda interiors have not aged well.  Cracked dashes and split vinyl seats are a pretty common sight.  I have managed to find standard seats and door trims over the years so could revert mine to standard.  I've only got pics of mine from years back, but I changed coloufrom all black to a lighter colour.  You'll notice there's no gear boot or rear door handle trims here.

great move on the interior... i agree the black interiors of mazda for time made them very dark... good have gone the lighter colour... i think actually suits well the exterior and contrasts well to with the black trim and such in the car. have no doubt getting the interior right would have been a mighty challenge ! well done.

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  • 2 months later...

Well, I definitely enjoyed starting this thread. Aim was a bit of fun. 

 

But ended on disappointment, not the thread but the RX8. 

 

I normally do okay with Mazda, but don't fit in an RX8. Finally found one in a dealer yard nearby. Unless you count fitting as seat fully low, head brushing the roof and the seat tipped so far back I struggle to reach the steering wheel at full extension. 

 

No way of getting in with a helmet on for track use. Unless I start deactivating fuses on airbags, ripping out seats and replacing with proper race seats.

 

Never drove the final RX7, but the older ones I fitted in with helmet and roll cage just fine. Although they did have race seats and 4 point harness come to think of it. 

 

So not sure what to dream of next. Maybe an RX8 with trashed internals I could gut and just have a track car. 

 

I fit in Caymans well. But would need to save a bit more. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

If your after a pure track car, an old mx5 with cage and turbo conversion is a lot of fun

With a tall cage that could work well. Otherwise they look like a clown car when I drive them, my forehead sticks up above the windshield.

 

Did import compliance on three in 2000, Mazda factory cars for Japan market. Factory mods with suspension upgrades, lowered from standard and turboed from memory.  Too low to get over a speed bump, one of our guys bellied one car at low speed and we had to get a jack to lift it off.  They were road legal in NZ since they were all factory mods. 

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I always planned to buy a ground up restored RX4, my dream car, and back in the late 90's there was plenty around for under 10k. But today an RX4 in average condition sells for $40k. A ground up restored car is going to be a lot, lot, more.

 

So in answer to the OP, buy one now if you really want one. It was the last Rotary from Mazda, and due to increasingly stringent emissions standards the RX8 will be the last one they ever built.

 

My dreams of owning a pristine 70's rotary may be over, so I had to settle for 80's pimping...

 

 

e30-323i.jpg

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My dreams of owning a pristine 70's rotary may be over, so I had to settle for 80's pimping...

 

Agree the E30 is cool;

 

Well I hope you've got an i6 in there, probably the closest thing you'll get to the smoothness and RPMs of a rotary without being a rotary..

 

If you haven't check these guys out E30 makes a good track car https://www.brintechcustoms.com.au/conversions

 

 

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10 hours ago, agisthos said:

I always planned to buy a ground up restored RX4, my dream car, and back in the late 90's there was plenty around for under 10k. But today an RX4 in average condition sells for $40k. A ground up restored car is going to be a lot, lot, more.

 

So in answer to the OP, buy one now if you really want one. It was the last Rotary from Mazda, and due to increasingly stringent emissions standards the RX8 will be the last one they ever built.

 

My dreams of owning a pristine 70's rotary may be over, so I had to settle for 80's pimping...

 

 

e30-323i.jpg

Unfortunately after all that, found one at a dealer nearby and dreams shattered. 

 

I don't fit! Too tall unless I start ripping out stock seats and perhaps find one without a sunroof.

 

Older RX7s were fine with helmet and roll cage. The RX8 has my head touching the roof even with the seat all the way down and tilted to the point of only just reaching the steering wheel. 

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6 hours ago, murrmax said:

 

Agree the E30 is cool;

 

Well I hope you've got an i6 in there, probably the closest thing you'll get to the smoothness and RPMs of a rotary without being a rotary..

 

If you haven't check these guys out E30 makes a good track car https://www.brintechcustoms.com.au/conversions

 

 

 

Yeah is has the inline 6. Fully balanced M20 motor just rebuilt earlier this year...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNmZX_-_hs

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