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Hi There gang,

I have a 14 year old denon avr-1706 that I bought in 2006. I think it's the last model that was pre-HDMI, so I use optical and coax for audio connections, I don't bother with video just run that straight to the tv. I never quite understood what the advantage of running your video through your avr was, I mean I still see pictures and hear sounds and they're in sync, right? Setup is 5.1, speakers are all Trevor Lees except for the sub which is a canton asd 220 sc (which Trevor sold to me). Aaah Trevor Lees, a legend in his own lunchtime! I've always been pretty happy with the sound. Lately though it feels like anything slightly raucous starts to fall apart. Gentler music sounds great, but anything approaching a wall of sound is really harsh and bordering on distorting. I dunno, maybe the room has something to do with it? It's never sounded as good in my current digs as it did in the last house. I like a warm sound, but I also rock out the pixies and mr waits on occasion.

 

So I was thinking of upgrading to a denon avr-x3600h. The 1706 cost me 600 bucks back then, on sale cos it was already old tech. The 3600 is $2600 so you would reckon there's already a gain to be had. The difference between say DTS and DTS-HD seems subjectively fairly minor from what I've read, and I don't think my space is going to work for any height speakers, so atmos is not really possible.

 

So if I'm just running 5.1, do you reckon I'll notice a difference by upgrading to the 3600? Or am I just gunna get more tech and the sound will be much the same? 

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The 3600 cost 2.6k?
Wow...

How much more for a 6500 - just asking?

For HT:

The Auto-EQ will be better, and so will the CPU, that is worth a fair bit.

If you are talking about critical stereo listening, the differences may not be as much as you think. I've used every single flagship model in the Denon stable since the 4310, and the improvements are mainly in the HT and video area.

It's much cheaper to add a good stereo amp with HT bypass to enhance the music listening experience. Something like a Marantz PM 8005 will give you that and the warm signature you're looking for.

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haha the 6500 is 6k. that's a lot of coin. Current marantz seems to be pm8006, and that's $3150. hmmmm. I'm on the precipice of a slippery slope.

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I once had a thread which became a sticky in the old DTV thread from buying overseas..

I'm tempted to start another now..

Eg the 3600 costs Aus 990 in singapore right now. Covid aside, you can visit the country, have a sling and plenty of good grub then buy one, pay the duties and still have change in your pocket for a couple of bottles of wine ..

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51 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

Aaah Trevor Lees, a legend in his own lunchtime! I've always been pretty happy with the sound. Lately though it feels like anything slightly raucous starts to fall apart. Gentler music sounds great, but anything approaching a wall of sound is really harsh and bordering on distorting. I dunno, maybe the room has something to do with it? It's never sounded as good in my current digs as it did in the last house. I like a warm sound, but I also rock out the pixies and mr waits on occasion.

@blybo had these can comment ... from what i remember quite revealing ... there are probably more kinder sounding speakers...

 

57 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

 

So I was thinking of upgrading to a denon avr-x3600h. The 1706 cost me 600 bucks back then, on sale cos it was already old tech. The 3600 is $2600 so you would reckon there's already a gain to be had. The difference between say DTS and DTS-HD seems subjectively fairly minor from what I've read, and I don't think my space is going to work for any height speakers, so atmos is not really possible.

 

So if I'm just running 5.1, do you reckon I'll notice a difference by upgrading to the 3600? Or am I just gunna get more tech and the sound will be much the same? 

look at it this way... they weigh about the same...rated about the same per channel....abotu same power consumption...one had its goodness concentrated in 7 channels one has goodness spread across 11 channels ... yes price gone up significantly (to probably what should cost now)

 

x033AV1706B-o_lid-off.jpeg

 

image

 

yes more bells whistles ... though i dont think you need any of it :D  but paying for ...

 

yes the lossless uncompressed is worth it ... i think it will be worth it for that... but in pure sound quality terms ... am not sure put a bet on it :D 

 

yes things move on ... but do they ? :D 

 

if you are unsure ... just take a step up 😧 4 series .... :D  but thats just more money isnt it ! 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, petetherock said:

I'm tempted to start another now..

it should still be there.... just matter of finding. dont start a new one ! :) 

 

the problem with singapore shopping is we had KEC that were happy to sell to au... that gates no longer open ....

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I may begin one more

with updated contacts and all 

I’ll check with my contacts in case some hungry vendor is willing to ship

but don’t start on warranty and all that ..

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1 hour ago, petetherock said:

Something like a Marantz PM 8005 will give you that and the warm signature you're looking for.

There is a rega Elex-R for sale here at $1100. That could work , I have a planar 2. 

9 minutes ago, betty boop said:

yes the lossless uncompressed is worth it ... i think it will be worth it for that

so of course I still want to upgrade the denon.

and then I'll need better speakers. Yikes.

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4 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

There is a rega Elex-R for sale here at $1100. That could work , I have a planar 2. 

so of course I still want to upgrade the denon.

and then I'll need better speakers. Yikes.

suggest somewhere like carlton audio visual given i can see in melbourne... can check out the denons... rega and speakers and what not... nothing beats actually hearing this stuff to appreciate whether anything worth doing ... or what exactly to do...

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is auditioning hifi gear a valid reason to leave the house? Will I be able to hear properly with a face mask on? Can this be done via zoom? OMG I'm having a panic attack...

 

Thanks betty, I'll see how things are in 3 weeks...

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5 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

is auditioning hifi gear a valid reason to leave the house? Will I be able to hear properly with a face mask on? Can this be done via zoom? OMG I'm having a panic attack...

 

Thanks betty, I'll see how things are in 3 weeks...

 

here's another thing to throw in the mix, keep the old avr... I am not sure how much gains you are going to get updating that..

 

if want a denon why not spend the $3k on something like this instead.... now this is really something ...

 

it has a htbypass as well so integrates with your AVR to take over duties of driving you mains for HT and lets you indulge in its gorgeous 2ch presentation for music ....

 

 

 

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I’ll second that amp.. a proper beast 

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yep check the above innards of those AVRS... and then look at the stunning engineering you are buying here all that goodness concentrated on just 2 channels :D

 

nde_pma2500ne_e2_sp_ot_bg001_hi.jpg

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11 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

would the elex-R do the htbypass thing? 3k is just not do-able.

It doesn't specifically, but you can make use of the record in and out to do something similar. That's how it was done in the 90s with the first Dolby decoders..

image.png.3955b493f377bedcb4d88e14822c9fc7.png

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6 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

would the elex-R do the htbypass thing? 3k is just not do-able.

well denon AVR is $2600 and then rega elex on top as well... why not jut get the denon beastie instead was my thought :D

 

the elex-r doesnt have a ht-bypass as far as i know... so no its not intended to be integrated with an av setup. if want htbypass on rega would need to spend on elicit-r at minimum...

 

$3.5k

https://www.audiotrends.com.au/rega-elicit-r.html

 

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Just now, petetherock said:

It doesn't specifically, but you can make use of the record in and out to do something similar. That's how it was done in the 90s with the first Dolby decoders..

can't do that to integrate with avr. that was with an inline processor....

 

to integrate with avr and integrated amp with no htbypass, you have to do the vol dial thing. ie calibrating the avr with 2ch amp vol knob at 12 o'clock and then returning it to 12 o'clock each time for ht duties... pita ...when htbypass amps are commonly available now days and have been for last 15+ years :) 

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hmm not sure why you would want to spend so much on the 3600 if you are not going to use the 9 channels/11 channel processing it has.

 

look for some 2nd hand denons and try one, not much downside if you sell it.

 

but in the end avr's are made for movie watching not music so find your budget and go from there.

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Thanks for the pic Pete - I see there is a preamp output on the elex-r, is that different to a ht bypass?

 

In any case I think I need to look for a stereo amp wth ht bypass, and keep the 1706. The PMA2500 is tempting but hard to justify for the price. Seed planted.

 

Thanks for your input! (pun intended)

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2 hours ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

So if I'm just running 5.1, do you reckon I'll notice a difference by upgrading to the 3600? Or am I just gunna get more tech and the sound will be much the same? 

You will definitely get an audio upgrade.   There is a big jump in sound quality from the entry level AVR's and the mid and high ends of the ranges.  

As someone suggested - you could easily buy a second hand Denon from a few years back for a similar audio upgrade and save yourself some bucks....  Could be a good idea if all of the extra tech is not even something that you need / care about...

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7 minutes ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

Thanks for the pic Pete - I see there is a preamp output on the elex-r, is that different to a ht bypass?

That is not htbypass as mentioned you’d need to spend on model up in rega elicit-r which comes with htbypass ...

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6 minutes ago, DrTobiasFunke said:
3 hours ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

 

You will definitely get an audio upgrade.   There is a big jump in sound quality from the entry level AVR's and the mid and high ends of the ranges.  

That’s problem ..  denon re aligned series post 08 series. So what was 1series became 2series. So post 08 if buying 2 series were really buying 1 series. As I have shown as well ... remarkably the 1706 under skin in pure power supply rating etc is not dissimilar to current 3 series that’s trying to cover greater channels these days !

 

9 minutes ago, DrTobiasFunke said:

As someone suggested - you could easily buy a second hand Denon from a few years back for a similar audio upgrade and save yourself some bucks....  Could be a good idea if all of the extra tech is not even something that you need / care about...

Definitely always better to buy back catalog if don’t need latest greatest ... but problem is not sure needs anything newer in any case and by sounds a 2ch integrated with ht bypass might be all needed to hit spot ...

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10 hours ago, ohboyanotheruniquename said:

would the elex-R do the htbypass thing? 3k is just not do-able.

Rega elex R is an excellent amplifier but it's on the opposite side of relax. Plenty of details, dynamics and agility but it's not going to make harsh recordings less harsh. 

 

You might find that Marantz 8005 mentioned above for less than $2k.  

 

Obviously without auditioning it's quite hard to determine personal taste. 

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If it's a sonic upgrade you're looking for, the better quality stereo amp with HT bypass is the way to go for sure.

I use a Marantz PM 11 and it does wonders for my moments of stereo listening.

I might even consider a nice Cambridge Audio Edge A if the funds permit...

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On 31/07/2020 at 9:50 PM, betty boop said:

@blybo had these can comment ... from what i remember quite revealing ... there are probably more kinder sounding speakers...

VERY VERY good speakers were the Trevor Lees. They used the focal tweeter which was so respected that it seemed all the local speaker manufacturers of note were using it until taken out of the market. The thin tower model I had are a little bass shy but in a HT setup that isn't an issue. I replaced mine with Focal Chorus 800W series speakers which were about 3 times the price. I had to spend that much to better them, although it was basically the bass where the gains were. I was using a Denon AVR 4306 and was very happy with HT sound but needed a bit more bass for my tastes when using pure direct mode for 2ch listening, as it didn't use the sub, but had the best sound quality.

 

If the speakers are not sounding as good in the current home, certainly look into placement and sound treatments (even if this is done by home furnishings). If wanting to update and budget is around high $3k to 4k, I'd look out for a runout Marantz AV7704 processor (or 7702mk2 if you can find 1) and a 2nd hand 7 ch power amp like an Elektra. This would future proof you for quite awhile and allow ability to go 7.1 down the track without extra electronics expenditure. I'm using the 7702mk2 with an Elektra and very happy with results and don't feel a need to upgrade for quite some time, probably till technology passes it by. I don't use my HT room for music much but find the Stereo playback is very good when required, but still short of what a dedicated 2ch system can provide. Even though Marantz and Denon are the same company, Maratnz has a warmer sound whereas Denon is more detailed. If I only had 1 system I'd simply add a 2ch integrated which had HT bypass.

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