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lonewolf

85"TV or stick waiting for 4k Projector

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Hey guys, I have a FHD projector (100-110") screen and a 65:" FHD TV behind the screen but i hardly watch the 65" these days as 100 is way bigger :). I have been waiting to move to 4k and waiting for the right projectors to come on the second hand market at a price i can afford (I have been using JVC projectors for the past 10 years or so..so still tempted to stick with them as i found some of the other cheaper brand names a step down in the picture that i was used to) and recently got a 4k oled in the bedroom and was surprised the jump in picture quality on 4k and now am even feeling the urge to move my main system to 4k and was thinking of the Sony 85" 4K tvs out. I am just not sure if i should just wait for a semi fake JVC 4k Pixel shift to come up on the forums and make do with that sort of 4k till native 4k Projectors become affordable or just move to the sony 85" 4k till i can get a native JVC 4k projector. 

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the e-shift projectors are pretty good in picture quality will get you something in order of 3k or so... which is pretty decent... its not semi fake or anything ... there is indeed a step up in resolution capability and also gains from wider colour gamut and HDR 

 

I'd go the projector ....

 

especially if you say the 100" is way bigger ... well the 85 is gooing then to be way smaller ! :D 15-25" up to projector screen is huge ! 

 

also anything of quality in a telly of 85" is going to be ridiculous;y expensive am not talking the any number of budget telly's around ...go big in size and all the faults all the more noticeable ! :D 

 

if used to jvc and been happy with the older ones ... consider the e-shift from last gen. i think would be very happy :)  

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Posted (edited)

The Sony i was looking at is pretty good for picture quality i believe. ITs contrast is meant to be alot better than the standard LED TVs. 

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

 

But I was wondering if it would be a noticeable drop from 100-85", considering from 65" - 100 is a big difference. Or if the TV brightness / colour / 4K part would more than make up for the drop in size. I know some people have 120-160" screens, wish i had that size. 

 

I saw a few JVC e-shift projectors come up for on the forums, but its hard to know which ones to go for and havent seen any for a while. I have the JVC X30 at the moment. 

 

Also How noticeable is HDR and so the pixel shift projectors also have HDR? I am not sure what is the biggest difference in picture quality when i went from my Samsung FHD to the Panasonic 4K OLED HDR TV. I am unsure if it was 4K, OLED or the HDR part that really made it shine, although i presume 4K makes the biggest initial / noticeable difference out of all the improvements. 

Edited by lonewolf

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54 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

The Sony i was looking at is pretty good for picture quality i believe. ITs contrast is meant to be alot better than the standard LED TVs. 

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

look its a LCD LED lit with zoning so will trick with contrast but its not going to get down to pixel level like your OLED you bought. they are another level really...the LCD isnt exactly firing that high in brightness either that they normally do to trick,. keep in mind too one thing seeing in shop another at home with some sensible settings :) 

 

57 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

But I was wondering if it would be a noticeable drop from 100-85", considering from 65" - 100 is a big difference. Or if the TV brightness / colour / 4K part would more than make up for the drop in size. I know some people have 120-160" screens, wish i had that size. 

oh it will be a drop a 15" drop even is a lot ! 

 

keeping in mind too how far from 85" plan to be. I was reading one guy the other day got 85" all new 4K well he is planning to use it at a distance the thing wont even fully resolve 1080p no matter 4K ! :D 

 

yes you will get some gains with WCG and HDR but you can get a good dose of that with projectors too ...

 

58 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I saw a few JVC e-shift projectors come up for on the forums, but its hard to know which ones to go for and havent seen any for a while. I have the JVC X30 at the moment. 

dont take wrong way but the x30 is literally an antique now ! I had a x35 and this is a generation before that even. things come a LONG way since. I was literally blown away in pure PQ from x35 to x7000 and thats even before talking 4kuhd !

 

if looking something new in JVC you want something in the Xx000 and newer. i dont know if looking native 4k in which case n5 would be going for but i think you are looking e-shift only in which case something like x5000-x7000 be worth going for on a budget but will need to factor in a calibration to dial in. otherwise a x5500 or x7500 would be a treat... or later x5900-x7900-x9900 theyre all good :) 

 

1 hour ago, lonewolf said:

Also How noticeable is HDR and so the pixel shift projectors also have HDR? I am not sure what is the biggest difference in picture quality when i went from my Samsung FHD to the Panasonic 4K OLED HDR TV. I am unsure if it was 4K, OLED or the HDR part that really made it shine, although i presume 4K makes the biggest initial / noticeable difference out of all the improvements. 

yes the jvc x5000-x7000-x9000 which were pixel shift also came with full HDR and full band width hdmi...unlike sony/epson of the time. only the x5000 lacked the WCG filter for 3rd element of 4k uhd to appreciate the wider colour gamut available for which needed to go to x7000 and x9000. . 

 

HDR isnt be all and end all i dont beleive its only one element... you are looking at about twice luminance at a peak with HDR equipped projectors and so yes definitely at on the top end...the main thing your pana oled is actually bringing is in true black capability it can do ...so in the pure PQ stakes.

 

so no it isnt necessary 4k in main... with uhd its 3 factors 4k, wcg and HDR... that work together for end result.

 

brighter LCD try to wow with more luminance but really they last true black capability of OLED ...same goes with projectors 

 

either ways with any of this id aim for pure PQ as being winner... dont get too hung up on ticking spec boxes... as you'll find plenty of basic tellies tick all the boxes and yet look pretty average ! :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lonewolf said:

The Sony i was looking at is pretty good for picture quality i believe. ITs contrast is meant to be alot better than the standard LED TVs. 

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

 

But I was wondering if it would be a noticeable drop from 100-85", considering from 65" - 100 is a big difference. Or if the TV brightness / colour / 4K part would more than make up for the drop in size. I know some people have 120-160" screens, wish i had that size. 

 

Also How noticeable is HDR and so the pixel shift projectors also have HDR? I am not sure what is the biggest difference in picture quality when i went from my Samsung FHD to the Panasonic 4K OLED HDR TV. I am unsure if it was 4K, OLED or the HDR part that really made it shine, although i presume 4K makes the biggest initial / noticeable difference out of all the improvements. 

Hi Lonewolf ; I went through the same process recently too . Is this the sony tv reviewed below ? I think so and it has factors missing for good UHD replay like high nits ; a va panel for decent black levels and fald rather than edge lit for more precise pixel control 

 http://www.8ktv.com.au/review/sony-x850g-4k-ips-led-tv-review-australia-official/

 

I got a Hisense 85q8 which has all the above[no ip panel but a va for very good contrast] plus quantum dots for real pop and 1000+ nits which is samsung territory without the price  ; I would check one out :) the thing is UHD is designed for high nit LED rather than low nit projectors so the loss of 15" is little consequence for the picture quality gained ; which includes 12 bit dolby vision with the right uhd player. its well to note that pana uhd players have tone mapping presets for oled hi nit led and projectors to better match the disparate capabilities :) 

Its a good interim solution until we get laser uhd projectors with higher nits . I am in the position though of keeping my jvc 7000e for rec709 and 3d viewing in the interim for formats that dont need really high nits . Chances are if the jvc N series were better priced I would have settled for one :$ 

Edited by cwt

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7 minutes ago, cwt said:

Its a good interim solution until we get laser uhd projectors with higher nits . I am in the position though of keeping my jvc 7000e for rec709 and 3d viewing in the interim for formats that dont need really high nits . Chances are if the jvc N series were better priced I would have settled for one :$ 

still think its such a shame dont get the 7000 firmware updated for UHD cwt. they are such a gorgeously capable projector for the format :) i know you are remotely located and all that, hopefully an option at some, stage. I still have the update dongle if ever need it :) 

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19 minutes ago, cwt said:

Hi Lonewolf ; I went through the same process recently too . Is this the sony tv reviewed below ? I think so and it has factors missing for good UHD replay like high nits ; a va panel for decent black levels and fald rather than edge lit for more precise pixel control 

 http://www.8ktv.com.au/review/sony-x850g-4k-ips-led-tv-review-australia-official/

sounds to me more a set aiming or size than anything :) but then again plenty of folk that is a priority :) 

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47 minutes ago, cwt said:

Hi Lonewolf ; I went through the same process recently too . Is this the sony tv reviewed below ? I think so and it has factors missing for good UHD replay like high nits ; a va panel for decent black levels and fald rather than edge lit for more precise pixel control 

 http://www.8ktv.com.au/review/sony-x850g-4k-ips-led-tv-review-australia-official/

 

I got a Hisense 85q8 which has all the above[no ip panel but a va for very good contrast] plus quantum dots for real pop and 1000+ nits which is samsung territory without the price  ; I would check one out :) the thing is UHD is designed for high nit LED rather than low nit projectors so the loss of 15" is little consequence for the picture quality gained ; which includes 12 bit dolby vision with the right uhd player. its well to note that pana uhd players have tone mapping presets for oled hi nit led and projectors to better match the disparate capabilities :) 

Its a good interim solution until we get laser uhd projectors with higher nits . I am in the position though of keeping my jvc 7000e for rec709 and 3d viewing in the interim for formats that dont need really high nits . Chances are if the jvc N series were better priced I would have settled for one :$ 

I believe the one i am looking at has a VA panel and hence contrast is really good.

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

 

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7 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I believe the one i am looking at has a VA panel and hence contrast is really good.

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

 

this is one of sonys half way house things where its direct LED lit but frame dimming ! 

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/local-dimming

 

so its not a full array (fald) set. but either way even if was its not like oled  you purchased where each pixel is driven 

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Yeah, Its sort of half way isnt it? https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850g

 

Sadly OLED is so pricey still :(

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53 minutes ago, betty boop said:

still think its such a shame dont get the 7000 firmware updated for UHD cwt. they are such a gorgeously capable projector for the format :) i know you are remotely located and all that, hopefully an option at some, stage. I still have the update dongle if ever need it :) 

Thanks Al ; ile probably let it depreciate a bit before I take the chance ; factoring in knowing how well   later gen JVC'S hold up in value  B| 

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3 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

Yeah, Its sort of half way isnt it? https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850g

 

Sadly OLED is so pricey still :(

size is still a big driver with telly's if want big and quality got to pay for it .....otherwise one has to give ... :D 

 

with regards size how far from the screen are you ? that is a key thing especially if chasing resolution is an important factor ...

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30 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

I believe the one i am looking at has a VA panel and hence contrast is really good.

 

Sony 85" X85G LED 4K HDR Smart TV (KD85X8500G)

 

Yeah they give the 85'" a VA panel but if you want the better non edge lit   dimming you want the 900 series ; the HDR peak brightness is well under 1000 nits :/

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850g

Quote

 

Local Dimming  No
Backlight  Edge

This TV doesn't have a local dimming feature. The above video is for reference only. If you want local dimming, then check out the Sony X900H.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, cwt said:

Yeah they give the 85'" a VA panel but if you want the better non edge lit   dimming you want the 900 series ; the HDR peak brightness is well under 1000 nits :/

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850g

 

good found it there, I can understand the cons of this set of ... of poor contrast and the bad black uniformity....

 

PROS
  • Excellent low input lag.
  • Image remains accurate at an angle.
CONS
  • Disappointing contrast ratio.
  • Bad black uniformity.

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The review is on the 65" IPS panel and not the 85" VA panel though. So they say the 85" should have a lot better contrast. 

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59 minutes ago, lonewolf said:

The review is on the 65" IPS panel and not the 85" VA panel though. So they say the 85" should have a lot better contrast. 

with the contrast on the panel pointed to, contrast is going to be ordinary related to the frame dimming id suggest !

VA vs IPS ... both have plusses and minuses. VA is poorer on motion(with more blur) and poorer colour i beleive ...IPS is better in viewing angles...

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jeez so complicated and so many different features / panels to keep track of.  :). I guess OLED is almost better in every way and thats why its considered the best at the moment. Is this TV worth $3500?

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1 hour ago, lonewolf said:

jeez so complicated and so many different features / panels to keep track of.  :). I guess OLED is almost better in every way and thats why its considered the best at the moment. Is this TV worth $3500?

One aspect to look at is local dimming . Edge lit is cheaper to make than FALD which depends on the number of zones to contrast something bright close to something adjacent thats dark for example . If it didnt help they would save on the BOM  and transport costs with thinner sets for a start :$

Heres a review of the UK model hisense which is one level below the q8 series we get here[as well as bigger screens] ; theres is the U8 

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/hisense-u7-4k-lcd-led-tv-review.17094

The features are similar but ours gets 100's of local dimming zones and has much better peak brightness for UHD sources👌

If the q8's arent quite as good as the oleds black levels the oleds have poor peak brightness for UHD so its a tradeoff depending on sdr viewing habits . If wanting those turn of the backlight black levels and high brightness with a cheaper price ;the coming in a few months xuled models from Hisense are maybe another game changer..

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The rtings review is done on the smaller size of this model which is IPs edge lit.

 

The 85 inch is VA and Direct Lit without FALD.  So this review are pretty much useless for evaluating this particular TV.
 

There are almost zero pro reviews done for the 85x850g online, and it just gets unfairly dumped together with all other the IPS X850G unfortunately.

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Posted (edited)

We don’t have the environment for a projector and have always had plasma/LED. Lashed out twelve months ago on an 85” Sony to go 4K. Did the whole Foxtel iQ4 thing, The size and resulting enjoyment is great, no regrets there. Sport in near 4K is outstanding. Viewing is normally from about 3.5 - 4 m. TV wasn’t cheap though.

Edited by mjs

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1 hour ago, mjs said:

We don’t have the environment for a projector and have always had plasma/LED. Lashed out twelve months ago on an 85” Sony to go 4K. Did the whole Foxtel iQ4 thing, The size and resulting enjoyment is great, no regrets there.

definitely if projector not a possibility then a panel telly is only way to go... though op is running a projector now so should remain in contention...also eg myself i didnt think projector was even possible in my setup, but with forum friends its something been enjoying for years and still a screen far bigger than a telly could manage for equivalent cost or quality of image...

 

1 hour ago, mjs said:

Sport in near 4K is outstanding. Viewing is normally from about 3.5 - 4 m. TV wasn’t cheap though.

thats what i asked OP though because if 4K viewing is intended... because if it were 3.5-4m viewing distance the OP wouldn't even fully resolve 1080p let alone even start to resolve 4k... :) 

 

ofocurse if were running a smaller set at same distance prior...then the 4k set just being physically larger is going to mean for first time getting closer to resolve 1080p... but OP already is running a larger screen now and considering going backwards in size, and a significant step back in size  instead... :) 

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On 31/07/2020 at 4:17 PM, betty boop said:

the e-shift projectors are pretty good in picture quality will get you something in order of 3k or so... which is pretty decent... its not semi fake or anything ... there is indeed a step up in resolution capability and also gains from wider colour gamut and HDR 

 

I would not worry about it being 3k - even going from 4k to 8k is nearly, but not quite, impossible to detect:

https://www.techhive.com/article/3529913/8k-vs-4k-tvs-most-consumers-cannot-tell-the-difference.html

 

The real benefit is shooting in 8k and using good downscaling to 4k.   Then you can notice a difference over being shot in 4k.   Why - it is thought to be due to reduction in noise during the down scaling.   It even works for HD - 4k downscaled to HD looks better as well.   Strange - see a previous post I did:

 

Thanks

Bill

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I’d go with a large 4K TV such as 82 to 86in and wait for a better true 4K projector at decent money, However if cost was not a restriction you would probably go large TV and 4K projector.

 

JDH

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33 minutes ago, jdh500 said:

I’d go with a large 4K TV such as 82 to 86in and wait for a better true 4K projector at decent money, However if cost was not a restriction you would probably go large TV and 4K projector.

 

JDH

I know folks say this... but i have a native 4k projector for larger screen expense and use a little telly for day to day... and i wouldn't for one minute discount what can achieve with an e-shift projector..... I helped a couple of folk into epson e-shift and owned a e-shift jvc prior myself for some years that had full bandwidth 4k uhd capability... you loose a little in resolution but what achieve in picture quality is nothing short of stunning with these projectors even if not native 4k. for both immersion with their larger screen capability and also in pure picture quality they provide I truly don't believe they can be beat.

 

you'd be looking at larger size poorer picture LCDs in comparison in any case if talking 82-86" and why i keep asking the OP what distance view at is because if only watching at say ~3.5m a screen like this you wont even be resolving 2k (1080p) let alone 4k so to then think oh i wont buy a projector till can get a native 4k one is not a sensible stance...because any projector even non native 4k e-shift is going to give you more resolution at your viewing distance than any TV can because of size it is ...

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Posted (edited)

I just bought this one today: https://www.thegoodguys.com.au/sony-85-inches-x8000h-4k-uhd-android-bravia-led-tv-kd85x8000h?istCompanyId=3bea4a6c-bec2-47ac-ad52-cc426c68327c&istFeedId=e8d5c196-db26-43bb-982c-cfe72bb147d0&istItemId=irqpaamwm&istBid=t&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6575BRCQARIsAMp-ksOB9yzjQ_4JOy-mBuqJ1lYwSfKGhOrB0BzkWECY0LYUfB_g3_uTId8aAtmkEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

From what I can tell, it’s the new version of the 8500?

 

FWIW - I think it’s an “everyone’s TV” - solidly ‘good’, not great - which is perfectly fine by me. I’ve had speaker cable that cost more in the past.

 

It really depends on what you want to achieve. For me it’s “watch TV on a big arse screen”, if you demand ultra detail in inky-black - move on up! 
 

3949504A-20CA-49E0-86C9-FA715E4B1EED.jpeg

Edited by The_Doctor

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