Marantz 6014 lacking oomph..

[SGS]

OK so I said oomph. Not really sure how to desribe it otherwise.

 

Running 5.1.4, crossovers set to speaker capabilities not the std 80. Speakers are well capable. Listening to various inputs it just sounds lacking punch and depth.

 

I know I can't expect miracles running from just the 6014 amps. But compared to my last avr Yamaha RXV650 5.1 its a long way from it. Doesn't seem to matter which mode I run it in, stereo is probably the worst, almost seems muffled.

 

I have eco off, interestingly the power meter hardly changes whether low volume or high volume, always about a third, like its saving itself for later. I really expected as volume is increased it would as well. On eco its about a quarter. 

 

For movies I find it quite adequate but for music and music videos seriously lacking and not entirely crisp in sound, highs missing somewhat as well.

 

Am I needing an amp to run floor level?

I do have a class AB amp I could run left and right on. Old Technics amp, 70 watts pc.

[Neurone]

Well, it does only use a maximum of 680 watts at peak use, into 9 channels gives 75 w/ channel, less for heat dissipation and all the other bits of circuitry, so you may only have 40w or so per channel in the end. 

Hooking up a power amp may help, or it may not as from previous listening tests, Marantz and Yamaha are quite different.

[hopefullguy]

you dont mention the speakers/sub you have, why not use the normal 8o hz cross over?

 

did you set up audyssey correctly or just using the wrong way in the manual

 

avr.. critical music listening? these 2 dont usually go together.

 

more gear crammed into the same room does not equal better sound.

 

what audyssey stuff have you left on, turn off dynamic volume etc

Edited July 28, 2020 by hopefullguy

[Quark]

Switch all the crossovers to 80Hz - low frequencies take more power. Put the load on your sub's amp.

 

Have you put Audyssey through 6+ runs while the room is quiet. You're likely to get poor EQ if there's extraneous noise and/or few runs.

 

Can't recall if the 6014 has a 4/6 Ohm speaker setting - make sure it's turned off - it will reduce the power.

 

Also, what speakers are you running?

[SGS]

1 hour ago, Neurone said:

Well, it does only use a maximum of 680 watts at peak use, into 9 channels gives 75 w/ channel, less for heat dissipation and all the other bits of circuitry, so you may only have 40w or so per channel in the end. 

Hooking up a power amp may help, or it may not as from previous listening tests, Marantz and Yamaha are quite different.

Figured it would be something like that. It sounds as though it is running out of power. 40w is probably fairly accurate. Old avr was only running 5 channels.

[SGS]

1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

you dont mention the speakers/sub you have, why not use the normal 8o hz cross over?

 

did you set up audyssey correctly or just using the wrong way in the manual

 

avr.. critical music listening? these 2 dont usually go together.

 

more gear crammed into the same room does not equal better sound.

 

what audyssey stuff have you left on, turn off dynamic volume etc

I followed the on screen process for Audyssey. Crossovers are set as how I like it. My sub whilst decent isn't earth shattering. I like full range from fronts for music. Not a music with sub fan.

 

Will check whats on off, dynamic I believe is off, what else?

[SGS]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

Switch all the crossovers to 80Hz - low frequencies take more power. Put the load on your sub's amp.

 

Have you put Audyssey through 6+ runs while the room is quiet. You're likely to get poor EQ if there's extraneous noise and/or few runs.

 

Can't recall if the 6014 has a 4/6 Ohm speaker setting - make sure it's turned off - it will reduce the power.

 

Also, what speakers are you running?

Haven't done 6 runs. Once with 5.1 before I  had heights and once with 5.1.4.

 

I'll look for the ohms setting, don't recall seeing that.

 

Enegry RC50 front

Energy RC centre

ALR Jordan surrounds, entry L floorstand

Nuvo series 4 8inch heights

 

Richter Thor sub, mk1 with mk2 amp driver

 

 

[Quark]

21 minutes ago, SGS said:

Haven't done 6 runs. Once with 5.1 before I  had heights and once with 5.1.4.

 

I'll look for the ohms setting, don't recall seeing that.

 

Enegry RC50 front

Energy RC centre

ALR Jordan surrounds, entry L floorstand

Nuvo series 4 8inch heights

 

Richter Thor sub, mk1 with mk2 amp driver

 

 

Looks like the RC50s dip down to 4 Ohms (which will be in the bass frequencies) - definitely need to set your crossover to 80Hz.

[hopefullguy]

keep ohm setting on the avr at 8ohms

 

do audyssey correctly from here, pages 5/6/7 especially.

 

http://www.willowville.net/ht/Audyssey%20Setup%20Guide.pdf

 

set xover at 80hz and do audyssey then compare to the way you have set it up.

[SGS]

Can't find a settings for ohms. Checked other options and most are turned of. Only the lip sync was on, now off.

 

When I first set up I had crossover at 80 for all speakers and set to small. Currently fronts are full range, large, centre 60 small, surround 40 small, heights 40 small. I guess I could increase all but fronts to 80, might unload amp a bit but I really prefer fronts to be full range for music. I didn't like it when all were 80 and couldn't find a way to get full on fronts just for music. Settings don't seem to allow for it, even when in pure, was the first dislike of the 6014.

 

I think I might try adding the other amp for the fronts and see how it goes.

[SGS]

Also, weirdly, different inputs have different volums and I'm not talking small changes.

 

Starting to think I should have stuck with Yamaha.

[RankStranger]

Before you go pulling everything out, check your speakers are in phase. 

[Hi-Fi Whipped]

2 hours ago, SGS said:

Can't find a settings for ohms. Checked other options and most are turned of. Only the lip sync was on, now off.

 

When I first set up I had crossover at 80 for all speakers and set to small. Currently fronts are full range, large, centre 60 small, surround 40 small, heights 40 small. I guess I could increase all but fronts to 80, might unload amp a bit but I really prefer fronts to be full range for music. I didn't like it when all were 80 and couldn't find a way to get full on fronts just for music. Settings don't seem to allow for it, even when in pure, was the first dislike of the 6014.

 

I think I might try adding the other amp for the fronts and see how it goes.

To echo others for surround sound definitely have all channels set at 80hz crossover.

 

for 2ch stereo though bypass your crossover settings by using a pure direct mode or whatever the Marantz has so they are getting a full range signal.

 

in my experience having your front three channels crossed over the same (80hz) will give you a more cohesive music concert and movie experience, end of story.

 

id also doubt your rear speakers can process down to 40hz in any case so that's a complete waste of power.

 

in any case can't hurt to try, just a tweak here and there.

[SGS]

Trouble is setting crossover at 80 on fronts applies even when in pure. There is no dual setting either to have fronts full range. It's why I set crossover lower.

 

 

[Snoopy8]

Have you tried switching Audyssey off for music?  

[mcb]

17 hours ago, hopefullguy said:

keep ohm setting on the avr at 8ohms

 

do audyssey correctly from here, pages 5/6/7 especially.

 

http://www.willowville.net/ht/Audyssey Setup Guide.pdf

 

set xover at 80hz and do audyssey then compare to the way you have set it up.

I fully concur with following the guide that is listed by hopefullguy, it is important to get the steps and mic locations correct.

 

Further, with reference to point H on page 10, I found that I needed to add about 5db to the subs level, to get the bass where I wanted it.  This  experience has been across several Denon/Marantz AVR's using Audyssey.

[nedrum]

I had an odd experience that might help. Cross over too high, goes louder but lack the impact (front speakers have fast drivers than the sub). Crossover too low and my fronts bottom out on really loud and deep base. Ideal for me was 50Hz, but likely depends on speakers and how loud you like it so just play around.

 

I also found Audyssey turned on was MUCH better sound quality wise compared to any direct or pure direct mode. It corrects any room issues you have, so don't fear it  Some further details of what Audyssey can do can be found in the ASR review.

[MrC]

11 minutes ago, nedrum said:

 It corrects any room issues you have, so don't fear it

Whilst Audyssey can improve the sound it cannot correct room issues.  It mitigates what room issues you may have.  Room treatments are required for this.

[nedrum]

Fair enough @MrC

 

Another thing to consider is purchasing the Audyssey app (I think it's about $30 on the Apple/Android app store?). It allows you to set a max filter frequency, something I can't do on the SR6012 without the app. HomeTheatreReview have spoken about this...

 

"On the other hand, the ability to set a maximum filter frequency addresses the single biggest beef I've had with Audyssey in the past, and the audible difference it makes, at least in my system, is monumental. In setting up the system in my room--in which I relied on Focal's Sib Evo Atmos 5.1.2 speaker system throughout the review--I settled on a max filter frequency of 600 Hz for the fronts and center, 800 Hz for the surrounds (which were a little close to a boundary and needed a little more help), and no upper limit on the up-firing Atmos effects modules built into the speakers."

 

Might be something to consider?

[SGS]

5 hours ago, nedrum said:

Fair enough @MrC

 

Another thing to consider is purchasing the Audyssey app (I think it's about $30 on the Apple/Android app store?). It allows you to set a max filter frequency, something I can't do on the SR6012 without the app. HomeTheatreReview have spoken about this...

 

"On the other hand, the ability to set a maximum filter frequency addresses the single biggest beef I've had with Audyssey in the past, and the audible difference it makes, at least in my system, is monumental. In setting up the system in my room--in which I relied on Focal's Sib Evo Atmos 5.1.2 speaker system throughout the review--I settled on a max filter frequency of 600 Hz for the fronts and center, 800 Hz for the surrounds (which were a little close to a boundary and needed a little more help), and no upper limit on the up-firing Atmos effects modules built into the speakers."

 

Might be something to consider?

I downloaded an ap, it was free so may not be the same. I'll check.

12 hours ago, Snoopy8 said:

Have you tried switching Audyssey off for music?  

Didn't know I could, not seen an option. But prefer not to be accessing settings when I want music.

9 hours ago, mcb said:

I fully concur with following the guide that is listed by hopefullguy, it is important to get the steps and mic locations correct.

 

Further, with reference to point H on page 10, I found that I needed to add about 5db to the subs level, to get the bass where I wanted it.  This  experience has been across several Denon/Marantz AVR's using Audyssey.

Weekend task I think. I just followed on screen prompts.

6 hours ago, nedrum said:

I had an odd experience that might help. Cross over too high, goes louder but lack the impact (front speakers have fast drivers than the sub). Crossover too low and my fronts bottom out on really loud and deep base. Ideal for me was 50Hz, but likely depends on speakers and how loud you like it so just play around.

 

I also found Audyssey turned on was MUCH better sound quality wise compared to any direct or pure direct mode. It corrects any room issues you have, so don't fear it  Some further details of what Audyssey can do can be found in the ASR review.

From memory I don't think I have an option for 50 which I think would be ideal. Its 40 60 80. Felt 60 too high and 40 could be too low.

 

[Snoopy8]

2 minutes ago, SGS said:

Didn't know I could, not seen an option. But prefer not to be accessing settings when I want music.

Audyssey is known not to be good with music, ok with movies.  Suggest you test playing music with Audyssey disabled.

[SGS]

This should fix lack of power