Dedicated Listening Room Advice

[DSD_Fan]

Hi all,

 

The wife and I have decided to build a new house within the next 2 years. The house will be a pre-fab concrete house and most internal walls will be concrete. So I am gong to add a dedicated listening room. So I need a lot of help

2 options I am thinking of, as the block of land is high up in hinterland, I'm unsure if I want the front wall to be floor to ceiling glass (for the view) or if I want it to be stacked brick (with no windows) 

So I need recommendations on ceiling height, width and length, type of wall/floor coverings and so on. 

I have no clue, and want to get an idea so I can get the architect to help with the design of the room (before room treatment) as we want to get the design of the house started soon. 

I know it's hard without knowing other factors.  This room will be only for me  

I'll try and find some pics of what I'd like it to be like 

 

If anyone knows any designers on the Gold Coast, please let me know

 

Thanks

 

[Hydrology]

A glass front wall will have a big impact on midrange which would need to be treated with some absorption/diffusion. It all boils down to compromises - it would probably be hard to lose the stunning view you may have with glass (unless other parts of the house offer a similar view).

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hydrology

[DSD_Fan]

Yeah most of the house will have the view. But sitting in the room, music playing with a beer just looking out would be ideal. Just not practical I guess.  But I am open to ideas.

This is my setup in the current house (some of the hardware has changed) 

Sounds great (to me) and it's a very open room too. 

 

 

[Al.M]

You are in the wrong forum topic page, which is https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/forum/222-room-acoustics-construction-and-design/ and there are similar discussions.

 

Any impervious reflective wall whether glass or brick has the same sound reflection issues and it would not make a big difference, however sound absorbing wall treatments are easier to attach to solid walls than glass, where thick curtains are the main option. Glass does not stop as much noise escaping if that is a criteria.

[harfdef]

in my. experience the best sounding rooms I have had have high ceilings, the higher the better. If you look at churches where everything depended on an unamplified voice being heard clearly over a large area. Timber brick stone all work but not much glass in churches

[Guest]

Glass will, however, allow bass to escape. In a mostly concrete room this may be a good thing

[DSD_Fan]

Could admin please move this to https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/forum/222-room-acoustics-construction-and-design/

 

Thanks guys. Looking for more design at this stage as I can sort out the rest later. Idea of double glazed glass (if going glass) 

 

Currently the ceiling height is 2.7m odd

[Lochawe]

15 minutes ago, Al.M said:

Any impervious reflective wall whether glass or brick has the same sound reflection issues and it would not make a big difference, however sound absorbing wall treatments are easier to attach to solid walls than glass, where thick curtains are the main option. Glass does not stop as much noise escaping if that is a criteria.

This not totally accurate because glass is literally immaterial to certain frequencies so is much less effective as a reflector below certain frequencies that will pass right through glass as if it isn't even there compared to (brick) concrete walls...

 

Maybe there is a way you can preserve aspects of the view without end wall being floor to ceiling glass? 

 

My initial advice is make the room as large as possible with minimum 5m wide x 7m long and ceiling at least 3.3m high. 

After designing and building over 30 dedicated rooms over the last 20 years in contemporary art museums for video and sound installations there are many ways to make this work but if I were in your shoes I would be planning a room with minimal if any windows and dimensions of 7.2m wide x 9m long x 3.9m high which coincides with one of the best acoustic results in a room with zero damping or absorption.

 

Good luck sifting through the barrage of advice coming your way...

 

[2Brix]

hey @DSD_Fan get some pro' advice of course, but i reckon double glazing / glass with film and attention to framing (eliminate rattles and resonance potential) should get a decent result.  Combine with heavy curtains perhaps, which you draw at nighttime or when you might be wanting the best acoustics?

 

found this which might be of interest

https://www.clearglass.com.au/products/glass-types/tranquility-glass/#:~:text=Tranquility glass is a laminated,layer to dampen noise transmission.&text=In 1996%2C SEKISUI successfully developed,dramatically increases sound insulation performance.

 

Cheers

2B

 

[DSD_Fan]

10 minutes ago, 2Brix said:

hey @DSD_Fan get some pro' advice of course, but i reckon double glazing / glass with film and attention to framing (eliminate rattles and resonance potential) should get a decent result.  Combine with heavy curtains perhaps, which you draw at nighttime or when you might be wanting the best acoustics?

 

found this which might be of interest

https://www.clearglass.com.au/products/glass-types/tranquility-glass/#:~:text=Tranquility glass is a laminated,layer to dampen noise transmission.&text=In 1996%2C SEKISUI successfully developed,dramatically increases sound insulation performance.

 

Cheers

2B

 

 

Yep, already looked into that and will be doing it

 

 

[2Brix]

Good-o!!

 

Oh and another thought..if you will a good view from the new room you might consider a low profile cabinet (i.e. well below your seated eye line) or better still a cabinet on a side wall such that when looking straight ahead your view is unobstructed, just a wide window 'framed' by speakers either side.  And speaker cables run through conduits to just behind each speaker.  That would be majestic!

 

And have your speakers placed well out from the front, and side walls.  (oops i see you won't need bass reinforcement) 

Edited July 13, 2020 by 2Brix

[wasabijim]

personally i find too much visual engagement distracting for critical listening, its like my mind can't process the sound stage and instrument placement because its not in sync with the visual message my eyes send. kinda like the saying - remove one sensory input and other are heightened. but still when zoning out is the order of the day, sweet tunes and an immersive view is hard to beat 

 

maybe them heavy hanging roller doors with acoustic treatment. assumes sound isolation is not a concern up in the hinterland there 

 

while some of the recommended room sizes are large also consider that for critical listening you're not actually 'using' the entire space. you may have 20-33% of a room length behind the listening position which can cater for other interests without overly compromising the rooms acoustics. pong or pool table, judo/yoga space, indoor garden-scape... anything to help the business case 

 

some also suggest to remove right-angles and parallel walls, not sure if that's workable in the case at hand.  maybe in a large room a split level floor is consideration?

 

good luck with the build project! i was in a similar situation, we're now in month 2 of the actual build 

[DSD_Fan]

6 hours ago, 2Brix said:

Good-o!!

 

Oh and another thought..if you will a good view from the new room you might consider a low profile cabinet (i.e. well below your seated eye line) or better still a cabinet on a side wall such that when looking straight ahead your view is unobstructed, just a wide window 'framed' by speakers either side.  And speaker cables run through conduits to just behind each speaker.  That would be majestic!

 

And have your speakers placed well out from the front, and side walls.  (oops i see you won't need bass reinforcement) 

 

Yes, equipment to the side. Speaker wide apart (subs behind them) is what I thought

 

11 minutes ago, wasabijim said:

personally i find too much visual engagement distracting for critical listening, its like my mind can't process the sound stage and instrument placement because its not in sync with the visual message my eyes send. kinda like the saying - remove one sensory input and other are heightened. but still when zoning out is the order of the day, sweet tunes and an immersive view is hard to beat 

 

maybe them heavy hanging roller doors with acoustic treatment. assumes sound isolation is not a concern up in the hinterland there 

 

while some of the recommended room sizes are large also consider that for critical listening you're not actually 'using' the entire space. you may have 20-33% of a room length behind the listening position which can cater for other interests without overly compromising the rooms acoustics. pong or pool table, judo/yoga space, indoor garden-scape... anything to help the business case 

 

some also suggest to remove right-angles and parallel walls, not sure if that's workable in the case at hand.  maybe in a large room a split level floor is consideration?

 

good luck with the build project! i was in a similar situation, we're now in month 2 of the actual build 

 

Currently I look out at the view and enjoy it while I listen to music (and have a beer) 

I'd like it to feel open and spacious and not to focus on the speakers but to the view so I can just sit and relax 

 

[Al.M]

The above suggested ideal room size of 5 x 7 x 3.3m should do it but also consider the largest speaker system and stereo triangle you are likely be listening to such as large tower speakers, electrostatic or other panel speakers, large horn speakers etc that will need at least a 3m front separation and 3-4m front to seat with 1-2m sides to walls, behind speakers and 2-3m seated position.

 

Also, if you are keeping windows, think about what size, glass thickness and spec such as double glazing, single pane 6.38, 8-10mm laminated, seals and other issues over the standard 3-4mm float glass and which is best for sound in light of what has been said already and other advice.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Al.M

[DSD_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Al.M said:

You are in the wrong forum topic page, which is https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/forum/222-room-acoustics-construction-and-design/ and there are similar discussions.

 

Any impervious reflective wall whether glass or brick has the same sound reflection issues and it would not make a big difference, however sound absorbing wall treatments are easier to attach to solid walls than glass, where thick curtains are the main option. Glass does not stop as much noise escaping if that is a criteria.

 

How do I get it moved?

 

 

[Al.M]

18 minutes ago, DSD_Fan said:

 

How do I get it moved?

 

 

Sorry I didn’t mean to repost my earlier words just then

 

A moderator will notice it eventually or someone may report it somehow. Edit: worked it out, I just reported it from my post.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Al.M

[Irek]

I am working with architects regularly, quite often they are designing HT rooms. Unfortunately they have zero, embarrassingly zero idea about Hifi or even surround systems.

[DSD_Fan]

2 minutes ago, Irek said:

I am working with architects regularly, quite often they are designing HT rooms. Unfortunately they have zero, embarrassingly zero idea about Hifi or even surround systems.

Yeah I know. But I mean more from just getting the shape of the room right. 

[Mickstuh]

One tip I got given by a sopund engineer years ago is that the glass between a recording studio and the control room is always double glazed – and the glazes are two different thicknesses. Reason being, that different thickness allow different frequencies to pass through. So the frequency the first one fails to block, the other one blocks. Which it would make a difference as to which thickness comes first in the sequence.