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W47ty

Thorens TD165 not running at 45rpm

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I hope I can pick the collective brains for some ideas along side my extensive googling.....

 

I have a Thorens TD165mk2 which I recently purchased. It all runs smoothly and ticketyboo other than it will not spin up to 45 no matter what. 33/3 no problem at all. When I select 45 the belt (which I understand to be new and looks correct) does not locate at the top of the spindle but sits just under the lip of the larger /top part of the spindle. If I manually move the belt to the top of the spindle and then power up it will run (albeit not at 45 but hovers around 40) when I repeat the process with the platter located after moving the belt and then starting it up, again it goes to about 40 ish but when a record is placed on the platter the belt always comes off the pulley and sub platter.

The motor is dead silent and looks to be running true.

Any thoughts or suggestions.  Thank you in advance

 

cheers

chris

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A bonus with these decks is that you can see exactly what is happening with the belt  and pulley by placing the outer platter upside down and then testing the speed selectors. You can put a record on too to approximate the playing weight. For the belt to come off when you play a record suggests either the suspension  or motor pulley azimuth might need adjustment.


For the speed to be slow at 45 but fine at 33 does suggest the belt is not the right size though. You can add a single twist to the belt which tightens it slightly and see how this affects the behaviour. Some after-market belts can look ok but be slightly tight or loose so well worth getting a genuine Thorens replacement.

 

Good luck with it!

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@Doppelganger thanks mate. Fabulous advice. I shall try that out and let you know how I go. 

 

 I assume the azimuth issue is one of trial and error as the pulley looks to be dead straight and the platter level. I have tried to research if there is an optimum height for the platter to be off the chassis/plate and read 6mm. Does this sound correct?

I do have a genuine Thorens belt on way for my other deck so I shall try that too. Although the current belt does look right I hear what you are saying about after market ones

thanks again. 

 

cheers

chris 

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quick update. I have run some tests using @Doppelganger suggestions.  it appears the belt "slips" off the top of the pulley when the platter is in place. which I assume means that I need to adjust the springs to be tighter so as to not allow quite so much "drop" when the platter is put on. I will try to sort the depth issue out later today and let you know if I solved the problem :)

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I would have thought that if the springs are tighter that would mean the platter will sit higher relative to the pulley and this would mean the belt would ride higher and thus continue to slip off. I would think the suspension needs to be softened so the platter rides lower relative to the pulley. A matter of trial and error with different suspension settings. Did you put a twist in the belt to see if that assisted with the change from 33 to 45?

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11 minutes ago, Doppelganger said:

I would have thought that if the springs are tighter that would mean the platter will sit higher relative to the pulley and this would mean the belt would ride higher and thus continue to slip off. I would think the suspension needs to be softened so the platter rides lower relative to the pulley. A matter of trial and error with different suspension settings. Did you put a twist in the belt to see if that assisted with the change from 33 to 45?

doh...good point. thanks mate.  Logically that is what I would have done of course.  Not enough coffee :)   

 

I did put a twist in and it didnt seem to alter the outcome 

 

cheers

chris

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When buying replacement belts for Thorens  turntables , make sure you order the correct item as there  are noticeable size variations between the various models. Without seeing your 165 MK II in action, I would expect that your current belt is on the tight fitting side, i.e. too small in diameter.

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On 13/07/2020 at 3:45 PM, Doppelganger said:

I would have thought that if the springs are tighter that would mean the platter will sit higher relative to the pulley and this would mean the belt would ride higher and thus continue to slip off. I would think the suspension needs to be softened so the platter rides lower relative to the pulley. A matter of trial and error with different suspension settings. Did you put a twist in the belt to see if that assisted with the change from 33 to 45?

I have played around with the suspension settings, along with putting a twist in the belt, I have managed to get it to spin up to 45. However, far from consistent as it still slips off the top more often than it stays put and spin correctly.  

 

I have a genuine Thorens belt on way so lets see if that makes the difference.

 

cheers

chris

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On 15/07/2020 at 4:57 PM, W47ty said:

I have played around with the suspension settings, along with putting a twist in the belt, I have managed to get it to spin up to 45. However, far from consistent as it still slips off the top more often than it stays put and spin correctly.  

 

I have a genuine Thorens belt on way so lets see if that makes the difference.

 

cheers

chris

Quick update for those following along......

 

The genuine Thorens belt turned up today so with much excitement and anticipation slipped it on, switched to 45 and measured the RPM. Lo and behold a magical 45 RPM ( with a bit of margin for error). played a couple of 45s and then back to 33 RPM whereupon it now runs fast!!!! Around 37 RPM.

 

Turns out the belt doesn't seat as low as it should when returend the the 33 position. Not the end of the world as I can manually adjust the belt for 33 where I couldn't for 45. The joys of vintage eh!

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Sounds like the motor shaft may no longer be parallel with the TT spindle.

Or maybe the motor has become slightly loose?

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1 hour ago, Colin Rutter said:

Sounds like the motor shaft may no longer be parallel with the TT spindle.

Or maybe the motor has become slightly loose?

Yeah that was my thought too. I shall investigate further. Cheers Colin 

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11 hours ago, Colin Rutter said:

Sounds like the motor shaft may no longer be parallel with the TT spindle.

Or maybe the motor has become slightly loose?

 

9 hours ago, W47ty said:

Yeah that was my thought too. I shall investigate further. Cheers Colin 

 

There are 3 screws holding the motor in place, the one closest to the spindle will adjust this parallel (after loosening the other 2 slightly). Doing this while the motor is running in the 33 position will get you the right position on the motor spindle.

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8 hours ago, Grizzly said:

 

 

There are 3 screws holding the motor in place, the one closest to the spindle will adjust this parallel (after loosening the other 2 slightly). Doing this while the motor is running in the 33 position will get you the right position on the motor spindle.

awesome thanks mate.

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