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Old Celef speakers - worth restoring?


Preout

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A builder friend of mine was going to throw these speakers away before I said I would take them off his hands.   They were his first set of serious speakers I believe.   Not sure how old they are?

 

They are Celef CF1 Cirrus.  Made in the UK, they became Proac later on I believe. 

 

They need new drivers and probably crossovers I would think.    They are a sealed design it looks like,  Made out of 10mm chipboard veneer.  So I am guessing the cabinet construction is not all that great. 

 

Thought maybe I could put some nice new drivers and crossovers and might have a little gem?   Or am I wasting my money? 

 

I can post all the dimensions if anyone wants to make any reccomendations.

 

Thanks.  

 

CF1- 1.jpg

CF1-2.jpg

CF1-3.jpg

CF1-4.jpg

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What drivers need replacing? and why?

 

If it's just the foam surrounds rotted on those mid woofers they can be repaired, re-foamed. Can usually buy kits for this if you don't mind the job and can manage it.

 

What happened to the crossovers that were in them? If they are still there just go over them and check connections and solder joins, re-flow solder if need be. Replace electrolytic capacitors with same capacitance poly caps, maybe Jantzen Superior Capacitors, Jantzen Cross Caps if on a tighter budget.

Edited by muon*
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Maybe measure the mid woofers for surrounds and email these guys and see if they have something suitable, tell them the speaker models and maybe include pics as well.

https://qsr.net.au/product-category/diy-speaker-repair-kits/page/2/

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Cool thanks Muon,  

 

This would be a first for me, so don't really know too much what I am doing.  So wanted to take on a little project for fun and the learning experience really.   I am prepared to spend a few $100 dollers if I get a nice little speaker out of it.  And I do like the sound of sealed speakers and their fast bass response.  

 

The rubbers on the woofers are all old and perished.  I just thought the whole driver would need replacing.   

 

And crossovers, yes I checked, they are still in their.  I just rembering reading somewhere that caps go dry and they usually need replacing.  I don't know much about electronics and soldering, but if I could get a decent off the shelf item, that would be ok?

 

Tweeters, well I don't know, could try them and see how they sound, but wouldn't mind replacing if I need too as well.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Preout said:

Cool thanks Muon,  

 

This would be a first for me, so don't really know too much what I am doing.  So wanted to take on a little project for fun and the learning experience really.   I am prepared to spend a few $100 dollers if I get a nice little speaker out of it.  And I do like the sound of sealed speakers and their fast bass response.  

 

The rubbers on the woofers are all old and perished.  I just thought the whole driver would need replacing.   

 

And crossovers, yes I checked, they are still in their.  I just remembering reading somewhere that caps go dry and they usually need replacing.  I don't know much about electronics and soldering, but if I could get a decent off the shelf item, that would be ok?

 

Tweeters, well I don't know, could try them and see how they sound, but wouldn't mind replacing if I need too as well.  

 

 

Cross overs are tuned/designed for the drivers they are used with and the cabinet/box type n volume, so It's not a plug n play situation, different drivers have different parameters. How well they are done is variable.

 

There are kit speakers like these but these are not a sealed type.

https://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/lsk-m4s-mini-monitor-kit

 

Maybe someone will come along that knows the drivers used in these, but then you still need to change the electrolytic capacitor in the cross overs.

 

Maybe a kit speaker would be a better project for you.

 

Edit: or maybe a kind member in Perth that has a lot of free time can offer to help.

Edited by muon*
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The woofers are likely to be acoustic suspension. Just about all woofers made today are for reflex boxes and won't sound right in those cabinets. As Muon advises, you want to have the woofers re-foamed, and just check the crossovers.

 

These should be nice sounding speakers.

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Back in the day, there were only a handful of English speaker mfrs (Rogers, Goodmans, Wharfedale, Kef etc) and Celef were one of the smaller makers but highly regarded so probably worth pursuing with your project if nothing else but for fun. 

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As @muon* has suggested, those woofers should be refoamed if they are functional. These are the original drivers for the CELEF CF1 Cirrus - don't be tempted to replace them - refoaming the woofers is a far, far better option. 

 

Likewise, the current tweeters are the original tweeters and should be retained if functional.

 

To establish if the drivers are functional, you can safely connect the speakers up to an amplifier and run them at low volumes, listening closely to both the woofers and tweeters to check that they are outputting sound.

 

Definitely don't ditch the crossovers either - replace any electrolytic caps only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Celef is absolutely worth saving. As mentioned already its not a good idea to replace drivers unless you can measure and design a crossover that actually suits your drivers. I would definitely not be changing anything about these.

 

Assuming there is sound still coming from each driver, refoam them and they will be sounding as good as new. It is very easy and cheap to do. Foams are widely available on eBay for just a few dollars each.

 

Actually it looks like the woofer on the right has been refoamed already?

 

There are many how to videos on YouTube.

 

 

 

 

I recently rescued some very nice 35 year old Realistic T-120 tower speakers and these sound and measure great.

 

Stick the veneer down where its lifting, clean them up and enjoy!.

Edited by Maz4bz
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Thanks so much to eveyone for your advice.  I have taken all the advice onboard and found a local guy here in Perth to refoam and check the crossovers.   Jason from Speaker Doctor assured me that these speakers were definately worth rejuvinating.  His prices were very reasonable too..

 

Looking forward to connecting them up to see what they sound like!

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I owned a pair of these as part of my second ever system, purchased in 1979. The rest of the system, which was only three components, was a Luxman L-3 amp, and a Harksound HS-210 turntable, fitted with an Ortofon cartridge (not an OM series). Not what you would call high end by any means, but it traveled with me to Port Hedland where I added a Hitachi cassette deck and, later, Dampier. Certainly helped keep me entertained and sane. Well, entertained, anyway.

These were replaced, after returning to Perth, and just prior to going to Derby for a couple of years, by the Celef Mini-Pro HE's, of which I have nothing but very fond memories.

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Well worth repairing!

 

To me - they sound like a large BBC monitor (and usually had Kef drivers).

 

 

1A422551-BC43-46A5-969E-9F37153FBA61.jpeg

Edited by Guest
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Hi Doctor, yours look like a nice step up from mine.   What model are they?  

 

So I just got them back from Jason at the Speaker Doctor today.  He said these were very nice sounding speakers and like every one said, he only had to repair the foams.  He also glued the veneer back on too that was falling off.   All for a very reasonable price.   Cant recommend him enough.  

 

So I got them home today and plugged them in to my system.   Pretty blown away I have to say.  I have a set of PMC 2 TBSi monitors, which are very nice.  The Celefs, could definately hold there own!  I have A-Bd them on a few songs.   The PMC's are definately more refined, the top end is a lot smoother , and they go a little lower.  But the Celefs seem to have more definition in the midrange and top end.  The cymbals and snare drum seem to have lots of texture and attack.   These are just first listening impressions, I haven't done a long listening session.   I am wondering if the Celefs top end might grow weary on the ears after a longer time, but immediate impressions are very satisifying.    They are less sensitive than my PMC's becuase I noticed my Pre is up to 11.00 from 9.00 for average listening levels.   

 

All in all, I am pretty satisfied with a speaker that was going to be turfed, revived for a small amount of money, and what a sound they have!  

 

 

Celef Restored 2.jpg

Celef Restored 1.jpg

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I'm pretty sure Clef always used to recommended listening to their speakers with the grills on, so if they are sounding a little harsh in the high end, and you are using them with the grills removed, try them with the grills back on.

Mind you, these speakers were designed when most peoples front end was a turntable, so they were probably designed with a litle bit of treble lift to compensate.

The drier and generally brighter sound of a digital front end might be a bit more obvious through the Clef's.

 

If they still sound bright with the grills on, you could always try the old studio trick that mix engineers used to use on the original Yamaha NS10 speakers, and that just get a small piece of tissue paper and stick tape it at one place above the tweeter so it hangs loosely over it, that should tame it.

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FYI Those drivers look like peerless models,

Tweeter is probably DT80 http://www.d-s-t.com.au/data/Peerless/811582.pdf  (i think that this one is the shielded version)

The woofer is probably 174WF 26/72

 

These were sold as a kit from Scan Audio

http://beta.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/1993/January/Peerless+PSK60-2+2-Way+Hifi+Loudspeakers

 

BTW the DT80 can sound a bit harsh, because it has a nasty resonance peak around 1K which needs taming (esp if crossed over low) though if the tweeter cct has an Lpad or shunt resistor it might not be necessary

 

http://audiojudgement.com/notch-filter-design-calculator-speakers/

 

cheers

 

 

 

 

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Hi Afa, thanks for all that info, thats great.  Gee there are some pretty knowledgeable people on this forum. 

 

Yes, I had a great listen to these speakers over the weekend, and what I have found.....

 

They are exceptionally good for listening at a further distance away with them cranked up a bit.  The trebel sounded raspy and dry, old school kinda sound.  Not in a bad way at all, really quite nice.  Snare drums have a real  attack to them, you can really hear the raspiness of the snare.   At a 5 to 8 meters away, they are really nice.   

 

Night time with the kids in bed, doors shut, and turned down a bit for closer listening, I did find them to get a little fatiguing after a while.  I swapped my PMC's back in, and my ears instantly relaxed, smooth honey top end. 

 

Its fun just swapping them back and forth really and finding out why you like something for a certain setting / sound.  

 

Not sure if I'll keep them or not yet.  I have found another project which will be coming in another post. 

   

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