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Posted (edited)

Denon a few weeks ago,  now Marantz
 

New 8k marantz

 

Details of 8015
 

same as the denon units a few weeks ago - looks like only 1 hdmi 2.1 input.

Edited by Steam

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There’s also a new Dual Audyssey Preset function that permits switching between two stored Audyssey configurations, allowing users to create separate Audyssey settings for stereo and surround listening and to make quick comparisons between a standard Audyssey calibration and one customized via the Audyssey MultEQ editor app 

Good to see them sort of  finally catching up to Diracs multiple filter presets :)

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7 hours ago, Steam said:

 

same as the denon units a few weeks ago - looks like only 1 hdmi 2.1 input.

 

If they did any more than that, what would they release in 2021!

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Posted (edited)

Regardless of the 8K input, 8K upscaling and 8K output. One big positive regarding the new 2020 models from both Marantz & Denon is the new Pre-Amplifier Mode.

 

Pre-Amplifier Mode

It looks as though Sound United is adding Pre-Amplifier mode to all their newest receivers which provides a clear signal path and more tolerance in clipping levels by disconnecting internal amplifiers when the receiver is used as an AV processor and all speakers are powered by external amplifiers. After years of testing and measuring AV receiver performance, Gene determined the reason why the preamp outputs on most receivers showed high distortion in an FFT plot when driven above 1.2Vrms. The unloaded amplifiers were being driven into clipping causing distortion to be feedback into the signal chain. This can be seen most recently in our measurements of the Marantz SR8012 as well as many other brands and models we've reviewed over the years.

 

Preamp Mode on Denon/Marantz 2020 AV Receivers YouTube Discussion

 

We pleaded with AV receiver manufacturers to offer a "preamp mode" that physically disconnects the signal path to the amplifiers for those wanting to use their receivers as a dedicated preamp by connecting external amplification. 

If listeners want to tap into separate power sources, the latest Marantz SR Series now support “Pre-Amplifier” mode on the SR6015, SR7015 and SR8015 models. Pre-Amplifier mode provides a clear signal path and more tolerance in clipping levels by disconnecting internal amplifiers when the receiver is used as an AV processor and all speakers are powered by external amplifiers.

--Marantz

 

Taken from:

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-8k-sr-series

 

Had a look at the Video linked above.
 

Edited by bizzibee

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10 minutes ago, bizzibee said:

Regardless of the 8K input, 8K upscaling and 8K output. One big positive regarding the new 2020 models from both Marantz & Denon is the new Pre-Amplifier Mode.

hi BB, am not too sure just how new this is though ? pre amp mode has been an option for last 10 years with denon and marantz with the release of the 2010...denon AVR 4311 ?

 

refer pg62 of the denon 4311 manual 

 

https://media.datatail.com/docs/manual/76613_en.pdf

 

PRE AMP mode

You can connect all speakers to an external power amplifier and use this unit as a preamplifier.
Using this unit as a preamplifier, you can perform up to 11.2-channel playback.

When the PRE AMP mode is used, the built-in power amplifier operation of this unit is stopped, and interference to the preamplifier from the power amplifier can be reduced.
To use this unit as a preamplifier, select “Amp Assign” and set “Assign Mode” to “PRE AMP” using steps 3 and 4 of “Set up “Amp Assign”” (
vpage 63).

  • When the PRE AMP mode is used, the MAIN ZONE audio is not output from the speaker terminals of this unit.
    To use the speakers for multizone (ZONE2/ZONE3) in the PRE AMP mode, set “Amp Assign” – “Assign Sp.” to “ZONE2/3” (
    vpage 95). This setting will output the ZONE2 audio from the surround back speaker terminals and ZONE3 audio from the front wide speaker terminals.

  • For connecting power amplifier and speaker systems, refer to the instruction manual supplied with the power amplifier to be used.

 

I can't believe Gene De sala of audioholics would be unaware of this either ? especially since they reviewed the 4311 in sept 2010 by their own Tom Audry ? and specifically called out the feature ? 

 

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-4311ci-fl

"Lastly, the AVR-4311CI has a feature that we've only seen on two other receivers before (Yamaha RX-Z7 and RX-Z11)  - Pre Amp Mode. For years we've been suggesting to our readers that they get a receiver with pre-outs so that, if they feel the need, they can add an amp later. Dedicated separates were (for a very long time) out of the reach of most consumers and were (until recently) usually lacking some of the most recent features. Opponents of using a receiver as a pre amp often sited multiple reasons (not all of which were valid ) for not using one. Denon has addressed all that with their new Pre Amp Mode. Now, the external amplifiers can be disconnected from the power supply section, thereby allowing all other operating components to receive the purest power and also eliminating any chance of “noise” from the amplifier section infiltrating and potentially degrading the audio/video paths.  In a brilliant move, Denon has allowed the  Pre Amp Mode optional setting in which selected amplifier channels may also be configured for multi-zone use, while the main zone amplifiers are shut down. This gives users a tremendous amount of flexibility in setting up their system in a variety of ways without compromising fidelity or features"

 

am I missing something ? or been dropped on models since ? though the video linked to does say the denon 8500 did have this ? perhaps point is the feature was on the upper models but not all ? accept if the case...

 

its a good thing as I know from my own experience going way back to the denon 4308 which in itself was pretty decent as a processor... even showed up a stand alone processor I demoed at the time...not to suggest a dedicated processor wasn't still of benefit and something i added myself down the track :) 

 

ps only reason i raise is ... hope they aren't making a big deal as if something new been invented ...and like wow look at new feature we are adding ? when they have instead conveniently forgotten it was there some years ago and perhaps just dropped :D 

 

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Yes I was wondering what the big deal was,I still use the 4311 with preamp mode engaged.

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Posted (edited)

Guys, please watch the video. I am aware that a Pre-Amp mode has been available on many Receivers for many years. But the Amps were not disconnected from the Pre-Amp in more recent receivers it would appear and this caused the issues that Denon & Marantz have finally resolved. If you watch  the video you will understand. I assumed any receiver with a pre-amp would automatically isolate the pre-amp from the amplifiers. But it seems that this isn’t always the case. My point was that was that these 2020 models address this issue,

Edited by bizzibee

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58 minutes ago, bizzibee said:

Guys, please watch the video. I am aware that a Pre-Amp mode has been available on many Receivers for many years. But the Amps were not disconnected from the Pre-Amp in more recent receivers it would appear and this caused the issues that Denon & Marantz have finally resolved. If you watch  the video you will understand. I assumed any receiver with a pre-amp would automatically isolate the pre-amp from the amplifiers. But it seems that this isn’t always the case. My point was that was that these 2020 models address this issue,

hi BB, I did watch, hence my point is this pre amp mode has been around for donkeys... not some new feature also its untrue what is claimed in the video this is some new thing and yamaha has to follow. as per audioholics themselves even as far back when the 4311 when got it ... the yamaha's at time in z7 and z11 already had this mode.... as will recall if watched the video gene says matter of selecting eco mode so amps switch off... is that all they are doing is preselecting this mode. ? I still think this is trumpeting something new that isn't ? I hope understand where coming from :) 

 

I understand where the sound unlimited guy is saying hey this is an interim thing. use in pre amp mode add a power amp and then dump the avr when want to upgrade the processing.... I understand if they have improved this side of it further...but this is something folks been doing to benefit for decades ! literally :) not new... that I can see...

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5 hours ago, bizzibee said:

Guys, please watch the video. I am aware that a Pre-Amp mode has been available on many Receivers for many years. But the Amps were not disconnected from the Pre-Amp in more recent receivers it would appear and this caused the issues that Denon & Marantz have finally resolved. If you watch  the video you will understand. I assumed any receiver with a pre-amp would automatically isolate the pre-amp from the amplifiers. But it seems that this isn’t always the case. My point was that was that these 2020 models address this issue,

To be precise BB ; the pre amp mode has been around a long time as Al has said ; what they have done is what Gene has been complaining about for ages ie isolating the power amps properly  so that when the volume is turned up the power amps dont clip anymore and drive up the THD+ noise  as shown in the fft plot .  

This is the same sort of thing that you see with ASR reviews and to their credit Denon and Marantz engineers are working with Amir to sort out the lower tier SR6014 B|

 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/marantz-sr6014-avr-review.14615/

Quote

A common problem with many AVRs is that even if you use the preamp out, the internal amplifier stays active and should it reach its maximum power, it will clip and drag down the delicate DAC circuits down with it. Fortunately the Marantz SR6104 similar to Denon AVRs that we have tested allows the two front channels to be decoupled from their amplifier.

 

Quote

Note: as a courtesy I submitted my measurements to Sound United/Denon-Marnatz engineering and they have verified that they measure the same.

Unlike some other brands its fair to say that Denon/Marantz have solid pre amp out levels like 4v which is why its necessary to isolate the power amps when using the pre amp feature . And it is cool to be able to drive 2 surround systems with 1 avr admitedly if needed :)

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Hi Guys,

 

OK, I wasn't saying that the Pre-Amp mode was something new. But that this mode on the 2020 (excluding 5015), now disconnects (isolates) the Amplifiers from the Pre-Amp to stops the issue as Gene outlined in the video and mentioned many times in his reviews (when the volume is turned up, the power amps clip and drive up the THD+ noise as shown in the fft plot).

 

Sorry if I ddn't explain this more clearly.

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1 hour ago, bizzibee said:

Sorry if I ddn't explain this more clearly.

It was fine BB; I was just expounding for clarity [ and mentioning another point of reference ie ASR]:)

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7 hours ago, bizzibee said:

 

Sorry if I ddn't explain this more clearly.

nothing to be sorry for.  You raise a good point.  Interesting to see the problems explained.

 

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On 09/07/2020 at 6:58 PM, Andre28 said:

 

If they did any more than that, what would they release in 2021!

I have read reports that the new range has a 3 year shelf life, so it won't be replaced until 2023.

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2 hours ago, Dunnersfella said:

I have read reports that the new range has a 3 year shelf life, so it won't be replaced until 2023.

Reports?  From where?  
 

am certain the Marantz marketing team wouldn’t be happy about that.  It’s quite simple to paste a different number on the case and claim it’s a new model.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dunnersfella said:

I have read reports that the new range has a 3 year shelf life, so it won't be replaced until 2023.

the SR8012 is nearly 3 years old already though :D was released cedia 2017(7th sept)

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The higher end models that have maximum bells and whistles tend to get upgraded a little less often. The mid range they seem to incrementally release the newer features over a period of a few years.

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You guys might be interested in this avforums video:


 

Quote

 

Podcast: New Denon AV Products, HDMI 2.1, 8K, DTS:X Pro Sound Q&A with Denon Product Specialists

We Interview Denon, Marantz and Sound United product specialists Philip Jones, Oliver Kriete and Roger Batchelor about the new Denon 2020 AV Amplifier and receiver models. We also cover HDMI 2.1 connectivity, 8K/60 and 4K/120 compatibility as well as the new DTS:X Pro sound support.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoocPpIY1as

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