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Orpheus Silex quiet running tip.

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My Silex (not my new one that project has not started yet). My original one was not totally silent, very quiet but there was not inky blacks between tracks, but not an issue as very quiet, but you know how it is you start to thing what it might be and why. I put my ear to the plinth when it was running and I could heard a rubbing, slight metallic scraping noise AHHH!! I think. I disengage the motor and spin it by hand and noise was still there, Hmm not motor then.. I dropped the belt off and span the platter much better but not totally silent so two things going on. It has to be idler, but why? Removing the idler wheel the plastic washer on the bottom of the idler shaft was worn through so the idler was running on metal, this was the scraping, well 90% of it anyway. I cleaned out the spindle bearing too and now that is very quiet, I replaced the idler plastic washer and put a plastic on on the top of the idler for good measure and a good oil. Next put it back together (man I hate putting the belt on the Orpheus!!). Now inky black in the gaps between the tracks finally I made the Orpheus super quiet!! :) I still have not pulled the motor down on the Orpheus or redone the idler wheel rubber which I plan to do on the new one. IMO with new rubber bushes (mine has) and things like the idler bush checked and oiled and with motor serviced the Orpheus is a very very quiet turntable indeed. Not sure if motor service can improve it more as cant hear anything now, but from what I am hearing now it is possible to get these turntable direct drive quiet running.

Chris

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Update, I did notice some motor noise or more likely idler rubber when stylus got to the middle run out, darn it..

Looks like I will be re-rubbering the idler after all. Orpheus is very very quiet though now and I am probably being pedantic, but it would be great to see what these turntables are really capable of.

Chris

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Posted (edited)

My experience with rebuilding them focuses on the motor cradle rubbers

I have never got one as quiet as with the eye dropper rubbers. 

I find the idler "on" rod tends to rest on the idler arm and make a small amount of noise that doesn't get through to the pickup but is annoying non the less

So I remove it. 

Means sometimes you have to flick the Platter to start.

I do any way so it's not a problem.

Edited by Colin Rutter
Spelling mistake

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2 hours ago, Colin Rutter said:

My experience with rebuilding them focuses on the motor cradle rubbers

I have never got one as quiet as with the eye dropper rubbers. 

I find the idler "on" rod tends to rest on the idler arm and make a small amount of noise that doesn't get through to the pickup but is annoying non the less

So I remove it. 

Means sometimes you have to flick the Platter to start.

I do any way so it's not a problem.

I also use eye droppers, only thing I have not looked at is motor.

I am probably being over picky buy why not :)

Chris

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I was aware that eye droppers have been used for motor cradle rubbers. 

I believe that Sorbothane has also been used.  Has anyone compared them?

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I've been trying to find the thread on the web where pics of the motor mount eye dropper were shown.

Any chance of positing a pic showing how this is achieved?

Thanks.

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You just burn a hole through the top of the rubbers bulb. 

I put "O" rings on top of the cradle to reduce it rising up when speed changing.

IMG20200528191131.jpg

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The other thing to try pieces of spear gun elastic tubing.

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22 hours ago, t_mike said:

The other thing to try pieces of spear gun elastic tubing.

What type/size?  Where can you buy very short lengths?

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53 minutes ago, audiofeline said:

What type/size?  Where can you buy very short lengths?

Many fishing/diving shops will keep it on a roll as it is a replacement piece. I could be mistaken, but I think the vast majority of it is the one size. A search of the net should show that this has been used before to good effect.

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I could put up with the noisy motor, its the wow and flutter that drove mine into hibernation.

If you were a machinist you could make a new bearing, idler wheel, balance the platter etc and probably get it running to an acceptable level. Or you could buy something that already runs well or has a range of aftermarket components to do so.

I will probably use it for something some day, but it will be all show and no go.

 

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44 minutes ago, awty said:

I could put up with the noisy motor, its the wow and flutter that drove mine into hibernation.

I've had a couple of the Silex's and concluded they are a complete POS.  One of the poorest, low quality built  TT's I've encountered.  They belong in landfill, just my opinion of course.  

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Posted (edited)
On 07/07/2020 at 8:47 PM, audiofeline said:

What type/size?  Where can you buy very short lengths?

 

On 07/07/2020 at 9:44 PM, t_mike said:

Many fishing/diving shops will keep it on a roll as it is a replacement piece. I could be mistaken, but I think the vast majority of it is the one size. A search of the net should show that this has been used before to good effect.

 

As Mike said, af - most dive shops should have it by the metre.

 

As Mike said, most spearfishermen use the one size.  Only those who go after whale sharks and orcas use the 'extra thick' tubing.  :winky:

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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1 hour ago, awty said:

I could put up with the noisy motor, its the wow and flutter that drove mine into hibernation.

If you were a machinist you could make a new bearing, idler wheel, balance the platter etc and probably get it running to an acceptable level. Or you could buy something that already runs well or has a range of aftermarket components to do so.

I will probably use it for something some day, but it will be all show and no go.

 

Mine has 0.05% wow and flutter which is as good as it gets. If you were getting a problem with wow you had either a belt issue, or maybe needed to lube or clean the idler wheel bearing oe edge of the platter. Just got a second one and after a good service the wow is similar ie very very good indeed.

Chris

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38 minutes ago, Peter_F said:

I've had a couple of the Silex's and concluded they are a complete POS.  One of the poorest, low quality built  TT's I've encountered.  They belong in landfill, just my opinion of course.  

They are also 70 years old, rerubber then and redo bushes they perform very well indeed.

My second one from a member here had wow, I stripped it down and it was the idler bush was stiff, a clean and a few drops of oil it was 500% better, relubed the spindle bearing and cleaned the idler wheel and all contact surfaces and running around that 0.05% wow and flutter and very quiet.

Chris

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1 hour ago, cafe latte said:

They are also 70 years old, rerubber then and redo bushes they perform very well indeed.

My second one from a member here had wow, I stripped it down and it was the idler bush was stiff, a clean and a few drops of oil it was 500% better, relubed the spindle bearing and cleaned the idler wheel and all contact surfaces and running around that 0.05% wow and flutter and very quiet.

Chris

I wanted to believe the hype but in the end I couldn't get past the appalling build quality as I don't subscribe to polishing a turd.  Each to their own so if you like it that's all that matters...  

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10 minutes ago, Peter_F said:

I wanted to believe the hype but in the end I couldn't get past the appalling build quality as I don't subscribe to polishing a turd.  Each to their own so if you like it that's all that matters...  

Build quality is excellent, not sure what your issues are with it. It is a 70 year old turntable that will need a rebuild and all rubbers replacing. They have a really decent heavy platter, a very well made cast spider, a good quality easy to maintain motor and a very solid top plate again cast. Not like the flimsy Lenco top plate and a better spindle bearing than the Lenco too. Switch is great quality proved by still working after 70 years. A "turd"cant get 0.05% wow and flutter with a light fettle after 70 years. I would love to see a Rega RP3 after 70 years...

If all rubbers are correctly replaced these run amazingly quiet and sound great. If you dont nothing will line up and they will rumble like a train. Anything 70 years old is going to need work.

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Unless they are completely rerubbered properly they are rumblers of the highest order

Until I was given the eye droppers tip I my OS put aside

If anyone has an OS they dont want I will buy it

ps there is a local chap on ebay who suppies sorbothane bushes for the platter spider that work a treat

They just need a large washer fitted on the bottom of the screw

 

Edited by Colin Rutter
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28 minutes ago, Colin Rutter said:

Unless they are completely rerubbered properly they are rumblers of the highest order

Until I was given the eye droppers tip I my OS put aside

If anyone has an OS they dont want I will buy it

ps there is a local chap on ebay who suppies sorbothane bushes for the platter spider that work a treat

They just need a large washer fitted on the bottom of the screw

 

Exactly.. How is it fair to Judge a turntable that is 70 plus years old? Using my Commonwealth as an example do we judge how it sounds on the first page or how it sounds on the third page or even when it has its new idler wheel at the end? https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=34547

Judging an Orpheus that is not rebuilt is not judging it at all.

Chris

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3 hours ago, Peter_F said:

I've had a couple of the Silex's and concluded they are a complete POS.  One of the poorest, low quality built  TT's I've encountered.  They belong in landfill, just my opinion of course.  

Very "agricultural" but they look cool.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, awty said:

Very "agricultural" but they look cool.

Yes they do  And sound great too.

Chris

20200530_121418 (1).jpg

Edited by cafe latte

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19 minutes ago, cafe latte said:

Exactly.. How is it fair to Judge a turntable that is 70 plus years old? Using my Commonwealth as an example do we judge how it sounds on the first page or how it sounds on the third page or even when it has its new idler wheel at the end? https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=34547

Judging an Orpheus that is not rebuilt is not judging it at all.

Chris

Chris,

 

You seem like a reasonable fella who's obviously passionate about the Silex.  I have made it quite clear that I am not, and perhaps you may consider dialing back the demands for explanations on a social forum just because somebody's opinion isn't in line with yours?  

 

I have no desire to debate the virtues of a Silex or any other TT with anybody just prove who's right and who's wrong on the internet, although I know I'm right! 😉

 

Cheers

 

Pete    

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Obviously a lot of people don't realise just how silently they must run for use in a radio station. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peter_F said:

 

Chris,

 

You seem like a reasonable fella who's obviously passionate about the Silex.  I have made it quite clear that I am not, and perhaps you may consider dialing back the demands for explanations on a social forum just because somebody's opinion isn't in line with yours?  

 

I have no desire to debate the virtues of a Silex or any other TT with anybody just prove who's right and who's wrong on the internet, although I know I'm right! 😉

 

Cheers

 

Pete    

Pete, 

I have 8 tuntables, 7 before the second Silex I just bought, they are an SP10mk2 with an Eminent Technology air arm, a sl1200G, a sl1210mk2 modded, a Denon DD, x2 Orpheus Silex a Commonwealth Broadcast 12d3 idler and a Lenco GL78 so hardly a Orpheus fanboy, I just like good turntables. If there are manufacturing issues ie poorly made bits I am sure we would all like to know what but as not my experience (I would like to add I own an engineering company so think I would spot issues if they existed). The bearing is as good as any, actually better as the Orpheus has a ball bearing at the bottom not a thrust plate like many. Parts are cast and heavy. Platter is VERY true and wow and flutter on mine is similar to my DD's. Motor quality is very good indeed, the one on my Commonwealth is a bit stronger, but that is a broadcast turntable so this is expected. Idler, motor spindle are all very well made and perfectly true. If you know you are right maybe share I am all ears. I have tens of thousands of dollars of turntables to compare the Orpheus to and around 60 carts, so mine is quite well tested..

Chris

Edited by cafe latte

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What am I saying! They are err terrible, sell them for 50 dollars, actually give them away, pm me and send them to me I will err correctly dispose of them :whistle:

Chris

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