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Food for thought on pixel level resolution and hdr backlighting :)

 

 

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No sense rushing into the underdeveloped tech too early IMO. Although not entirely sure pitting OLED v QLED is comparing "apples to apples" still tend to agree with the most of the reasoning here.

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Every time I look at 8k or 4k tv, I still prefer my old 1080p plasma. And CRT over plasma, the only downside is that its bulkiness. 

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We are just at the point in the UHD journey where the "full resolution" is available in the marketplace.

 

This is the equivalent of the time in the HD rollout when 1080 displays started to be released but had not yet displaced 720.

 

ie. still very early on in the UHD standards rollout....  it will be another decade before it's anything like ubiquitous, or manufacturers are really pushing its performance.

 

There's a lot more to come.

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47 minutes ago, vinilink said:

Every time I look at 8k or 4k tv, I still prefer my old 1080p plasma. And CRT over plasma, the only downside is that its bulkiness. 

vini... most folk sit at a distance not even to resolve 1080p...let alone 4k (which is beyond what used to be imax) or 8k for matter which is beyond ridiculous for home.

 

i say this as a 4k early adopter... i had uhd discs before released in this country... a 4k uhd player the day one was released here. I was same with blu-ray and hd-dvd with media and players on prior or on day one. with dvd i was at the aussie launch to see the tech. with a disc bought on that day..

 

but 8k ? pass... no relevance ....

 

ps while for uhd i have a 4k native projector... for everyday tv i run a 10+ year old 1080p pioneer kuro .... THE last and the best...see no reason to replace it till it dies for everyday tv.... which is barely even 1080i let alone 1080p ! :D  

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9 minutes ago, betty boop said:

 

but 8k ? pass... no relevance ....

 

ps while for uhd i have a 4k native projector... for everyday tv i run a 10+ year old 1080p pioneer kuro .... THE last and the best...see no reason to replace it till it dies for everyday tv.... which is barely even 1080i let alone 1080p ! :D  

Pretty sure you’ll adopt to 8k....... just need time to work on it!   😂

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4 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

Pretty sure you’ll adopt to 8k....... just need time to work on it!   😂

i won't be an early adopter I can assure. that is my point. while early adopter with dvd, blu-ray, 4k won't be for 8k given non relevance in the home. will i end up with it in years to come possibly... if there is no choice or all get or something. oems seem to make choices like that at times... try buying a SD 576p TV anywhere these days... even though for many folk thats about what they need given telly choice/size and viewing distance :D  

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13 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

Pretty sure you’ll adopt to 8k....... just need time to work on it!   😂

Look at BB signature... 🤣

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."
 

PS. Just in case, this is just for a fun for a laugh.

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28 minutes ago, betty boop said:

vini... most folk sit at a distance not even to resolve 1080p...let alone 4k (which is beyond what used to be imax) or 8k for matter which is beyond ridiculous for home.

 

i say this as a 4k early adopter... i had uhd discs before released in this country... a 4k uhd player the day one was released here. I was same with blu-ray and hd-dvd with media and players on prior or on day one. with dvd i was at the aussie launch to see the tech. with a disc bought on that day..

 

but 8k ? pass... no relevance ....

 

ps while for uhd i have a 4k native projector... for everyday tv i run a 10+ year old 1080p pioneer kuro .... THE last and the best...see no reason to replace it till it dies for everyday tv.... which is barely even 1080i let alone 1080p ! :D  

Same here. I have KRP500 and 427 and happy with them after more than 10+ years. Even with the 427 being only 728p HD ready, just love the overall pq and the way it renders the colours is beautiful without even being calibrated. 

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7 minutes ago, vinilink said:

Same here. I have KRP500 and 427 and happy with them after more than 10+ years. Even with the 427 being only 728p HD ready, just love the overall pq and the way it renders the colours is beautiful without even being calibrated. 

yep krp-500M here as well :D god they are gorgeous things. i remember the 427 as well remember clearly when came out and they were really quite mantle of what good PQ was for the time...can imagine it still doing very well even now ! 

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57 minutes ago, betty boop said:

but 8k ? pass... no relevance ....

Like 1080P is the available pixel layout for HD (you basically cannot purchase a 720 pixel display) ...... so too will 8k pixel layouts be "what is available" once UHD is ubiquitous.

 

Sure... it's not something worth "upgrading" for today.... just like the first 1080 displays in the market.

52 minutes ago, Addicted to music said:

Pretty sure you’ll adopt to 8k....... just need time to work on it!   😂

Of course... it's like someone in 2003 saying they will never part with their SOTA 720p display.    Two things happen, display technology moves on (not just measured in pixel density), and eventually 720 pixels are no longer available for purchase.

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Only problem with 8k screens is the price, nothing else. 

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32 minutes ago, Sime said:

Only problem with 8k screens is the price, nothing else. 

And choice of content ATM.

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1 hour ago, Sime said:

Only problem with 8k screens is the price, nothing else. 

There is a major problem and that is much of what we view today and what most watch isn’t HD even ! SD dvds are still the rage....

this is the challenge in upscaling...

if watching
 

sd  500,000 pixels map to 33,177,600 For 8k screen, only 1.5% of original picture will be from original  ... rest invented 

Hd 2k map to 8k ... resulting picture only 6.25% from original rest invented ...

4k with its 8,847,360 pixels mapping to 8k or 33,177,600 pixels has to invent some 24,330,240 pixels content ! The 8k image only have  73% of its content not from the original source material....
 

as the director intended :D ????

 

 

 

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Anyone still watching DVD’s won’t be buying an 8k screen. 
 

But anyway, not interested enough to continue this conversation. 

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5 minutes ago, Sime said:

Anyone still watching DVD’s won’t be buying an 8k screen. 

 

I strongly suspect that anyone who has seriously investigated the benefits of a 8k screen over a 4k screen won't be buying one either.

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1 hour ago, Sime said:

Anyone still watching DVD’s won’t be buying an 8k screen

I think might be surprised that some things are only available on DVD :) it is still the king of formats for video for buying public... people be still watching dvds for many years and as I suggested much of what we watch today is sub HD... switch on ftatv... and even if hdtv... look how little in the fabricated 8k image comes from the source 6.25% of content where source is 2k HD  :D

 

this is aside from problems with 8k and current issue with display tech in the opening Posts video ... no one is saying that to get 8k real detail we need way above that in 12-14k cameras... just as we use 5-8k now to get 4K due to Nyquist losses and mtf 

 

1 hour ago, Sime said:

But anyway, not interested enough to continue this conversation.

Understand however if it’s said only problem is price nothing else and that’s not true... it has to be said :) 

 

a greater issue is this continued push for more pixels beyond 4K in home  which is plain wrong and needs to be called out... Even with 4K a very very small minority will ever be watching actual 4K detail most cases it’s 2k at best with other benefits of HDR and wcg 4K uhd brought :)

 

what I hope doesn’t happen is the likely push by oems of 8k as upgrade for upgrade sake where folks forced to buy and pay for it no matter need it or not...just because need a telly :)

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I was reading an article stating that blu-ray could very likely not adopt the 8k standard, and UHD will be 4k only.

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m-sony8khdr.jpgSony files for  "8k hdr trademark " . Doesnt mean 8k blurays though ;its logo is listed for led tv's only 😉 Streaming is the future as it will be very hard to compress 8k onto the maximum 128gb bdxl bluray disc platform we have atm ..

If it happens a new compression codec [better than h265] is developed we still have very little material that is even 4k . So do we want 4k DCI'S upscaled to 8k discs like we have now with 2kDCI upscaled ? We have WCG and HDR now ; how big a screen will be needed to even see a difference ; Ide rather they concentrate on better nits for 4k tvs and projectors :$

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Its simple economics for manufacturers - create a demand for a new product to meet our consumerism society.  The general population don't get the more technical aspects of improving quality (eg nits) but know that 8K 'must' be better than 4K so they must have it.

 

Nevertheless I generally remember many of us  being wary of previous advancements (eg CRT to digital,  720p/1080i to 1080p to 4K, 5.1 to 7.1 to Atmos etc). In the end most of us eventually get on the bandwagon to enjoy the new technology. 

 

Tokyo Olympics was/will be a real kick along for 8K.

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4 hours ago, lucmor444 said:

Its simple economics for manufacturers - create a demand for a new product to meet our consumerism society.  The general population don't get the more technical aspects of improving quality (eg nits) but know that 8K 'must' be better than 4K so they must have it.

 

Nevertheless I generally remember many of us  being wary of previous advancements (eg CRT to digital,  720p/1080i to 1080p to 4K, 5.1 to 7.1 to Atmos etc). In the end most of us eventually get on the bandwagon to enjoy the new technology. 

With  8k tv's its a consequence of profit dropping over a new technology lifespan ; as led and oled etc gets cheaper with mass production new expensive tech like 8k is necessary to make a decent profit once again ; driving r&d  . This upgrade cycle will happen as 4k is phased out like it or not and yes for sure 8k sounds better than 4k to most :)

 

Thankfully for us that know better samsungs microled will improve on oled  and supplant it eventually B)

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On 04/07/2020 at 4:26 PM, betty boop said:

as the director intended :D ????

Yes.

There are plenty of scaling algorithms which do better (look perceptually bettr) than simple "pixel stretching".

 

 

 

"invented" infers that the scalers are not doing a good job of stretching the content ... which is laughable.    If it were true, we could just use simple pixel "doubling", or other super simplistic scaling.     But we don't, because other common scaler do a better job.

On 04/07/2020 at 5:01 PM, Sime said:

Anyone still watching DVD’s won’t be buying an 8k screen.

Nonsense.     I'm about to buy a new telly, and I won't be throwing away all my DVDs.

 

Buying a top of the range display is a good idea no matter what the source content.    Just like buying good speakers is a good idea if you are listening to cassete tapes.

 

On 07/07/2020 at 1:08 PM, Andre28 said:

I was reading an article stating that blu-ray could very likely not adopt the 8k standard, and UHD will be 4k only.

8K will come...  one way or another.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7291734

 

On 07/07/2020 at 3:10 PM, cwt said:

Ide rather they concentrate on better nits for 4k tvs and projectors :$

They are .... but 8K is coming.   UHD has always going to be 4k / 8k .... just like HD was 480(576) / 720 / 1080.

 

The R&D and planning for this pixel layout started long ago.   It will be here for a long time.

19 hours ago, cwt said:

With  8k tv's its a consequence of profit dropping over a new technology lifespan

Nonsense.

R&D for the format started over 20 years ago... and it was standardised during 2010-2012.   It isn't marketing clickbait.

 

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28 minutes ago, davewantsmoore said:

Nonsense.     I'm about to buy a new telly, and I won't be throwing away all my DVDs.

Are all you movies DVD, so your entire home movie experience is DVD?

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35 minutes ago, Sime said:

Are all you movies DVD, so your entire home movie experience is DVD?

Using decent quality upscaling, my home movie exeperience is awsome no matter what the source resolution, within reason.

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Posted (edited)

Only reason I purchased a 4K tv was because that’s all you can buy apart from 8k. The 1080p plasma it replaced was still fine for me.

 

I'm tipping the only reason I’ll be buying an 8k will be for the same reason, they will all be 8k one day.

 

upscaled 1080p blu-rays look pretty damn good on a 4K tv too, my want for 4K content stopped when I purchased a player with decent 4K upscaling.

Edited by Hi-Fi Whipped

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