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Posted (edited)

Hi guys, 

I would really appreciate any guidance.

I have front right/left speakers which are 6ohm 250w (nominal)

central, rear left and rear right are 8ohm 150w (nominal)

My amp is at the moment struggling to push all those speakers so i was wanting to upgrade.

budget wise i think up to about 1k would be something for a 5 channel (just guessing here), if more how much more would be needed ?

would there be one the would be HDCP 2.2-compliant ?

if some that have atmos capability so i can buy some speakers and add in the future would be great.

so would be 5.1.2 i'm guessing here?

 

would a 7.1.2/7.2.4 be better ? havent seen a lot of bluray that comes with 7channel capability like that.

the 7 i see usually are counting the atmos speakers.

 

Thanks in advance for reading and for any suggestions that comes my way.

 

Current Setup

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-3066

Front: NHT C4

Centre: Gale 20

Rear: Axis LS28

Subwoofer: Sound Dynamics THS-10

Edited by mfroes

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can you keep AVR you have and add a power amp if thats all thats struggling ? might be a 5-7ch power amp is all need ? beauty with this is you could upgrade to an avr later that can cover the rest of speakers and keep the 5-7ch power amp that will get you driving speakers you have now.  

 

because otherwise $1k is not a heck of a lot. 

 

there is a ton of stuff thats atmos and yes well and truly will do 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 but you'll need to spend more on your budget i would suggest if your AVR is struggling now with speakers you have ....

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op please post your existing avr.. also why not post your speaker and sub just to round off your info.

 

 

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1 hour ago, betty boop said:

can you keep AVR you have and add a power amp if thats all thats struggling ? might be a 5-7ch power amp is all need ? beauty with this is you could upgrade to an avr later that can cover the rest of speakers and keep the 5-7ch power amp that will get you driving speakers you have now.  

 

because otherwise $1k is not a heck of a lot. 

 

there is a ton of stuff thats atmos and yes well and truly will do 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 but you'll need to spend more on your budget i would suggest if your AVR is struggling now with speakers you have ....

Hi betty boop,

I was hoping to upgrade the AVR so i could have 4k support.  i've added my current setup in the original post.

What would be roughly the price of a good 5/7 power amp ? arent they usually same price or more expensive than an average AVR?

I've been suggested to use Marantz SR6009, but no idea on that one.

 

I'm not wanting anything new, so i thought that 1k would be ok.

How much would be one that would be worth it ?

 

for a 7.1.2 it would be good, but only if on sale, close to the 5ch. i'd say. try finding another 2 speakers would take a while.

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1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

op please post your existing avr.. also why not post your speaker and sub just to round off your info.

 

 

Hi hopefull

added to the original post. thanks

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14 minutes ago, mfroes said:

Hi betty boop,

I was hoping to upgrade the AVR so i could have 4k support.  i've added my current setup in the original post.

What would be roughly the price of a good 5/7 power amp ? arent they usually same price or more expensive than an average AVR?

I've been suggested to use Marantz SR6009, but no idea on that one.

 

I'm not wanting anything new, so i thought that 1k would be ok.

How much would be one that would be worth it ?

 

for a 7.1.2 it would be good, but only if on sale, close to the 5ch. i'd say. try finding another 2 speakers would take a while.

No own experience on speakers in question, can only go on what can glean from specs. At 86-88db efficiency speakers none would be classed as easy and need power behind them especially for movies.

 

problem with the yam avr is not that big power supply 470w max consumption and 40% be lost not leaving lot watts driving all those channels and that’s flat chat so can understand if sounding bit strained.

 

if buying 2nd hand a rotes 1075 which is good honest power should pick up for under $500 and seen them come up look out ...

 

problem with avrs even a flagship avr won’t have likes of power stage of the  rotel 1075 .... so hope get my gist

 

with avrs I’d still look at $2k-2.5k that might find 2nd hard bit cheaper eg in denon/marantz a model from 2016 onwards would do ... don’t need latest greatest and will do all asking for ...

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Posted (edited)

I wonder if one of this would be up to the task atm

then, when a rotel comes up get that to drive them and keep growing with a 11ch...

start separating amp/receiver

 

Marantz sr6010

https://www.marantz.com/en-gb/shop/avreceiver/sr6010?status=discontinue

or

denon x2400h

https://www.denon.com/en-gb/shop/avreceiver/avrx2400h

 

the marantz had the advntage of processing 9 channels instead of just 7.

 

Looking at specs some of them just say 100w/ch other say 100w/ch (when 2ch driven).

does that mean that when connecting more speakers the 200w will be splitted with all speakers?

 

 

Nice setup by the way betty, a thing that one can only hope for is to get close to it

Edited by mfroes

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Posted (edited)

Hi @mfroes

 

Looking on the Yamaha site the Yamaha HTR-3066 is only a 5.1 receiver so if you want to go 5.1.2 you will need a new receiver.

 

The Marantz you mention only has 650w power sonsumption, so splitting that between 9 channels, after losing 40% loss due to heat etc, that leaves about 400w to power 9 channels or 45w per channel, less for inefficient speakers.

 

As @betty boop says your speakers need lots of power to perform well, new AVRs are expensive and most of the money is spent on the extra 'bells and whistles' of Dolby this, THX, DTS xx, and other processing formats, little is left to power.

 

A secondhand Pre and Power setup will give lots, but will cost around $2.5K

 

You could use an older AVR as a Pre amp

And a Power amp to power the speakers

 

 

JJ

Edited by Janjuc

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Posted (edited)

hi @Janjuc,

thanks for the support and suggestions.

I'm unsure why nht are not that known here in AU.

they are current models and was cheap cheap.

so i moved a few of the speakers around to have these as front. hence the need for upgrading

At the moment, i have a bit of a mess.

yamaha driving rear 2 and sub with the stereo out connected to my technics SU-X901 amp which can drive the speakers a bit better.

 

I think i'm gonna have to a bit more than double my budget then. so no extra speakers for 3D sound at this point.

and maybe stick with a 5.1 until able to save some more $$

 

My I understand that the AVR does not have RCA out for all channels so it couldn't be used as a pre-amp. or am i wrong?

they only have stereo out.

 

Will start looking for some amps..

my guess is that LX-7 is better than the hotel 1075 as it is 200w X 7 and nor 120w X 7.

 

 

forgot to ask as well... the NHT C4 says it is a 250W speaker, would it be good to have a 250W amp running them or something like the LX-7 (200w) would be ok ?

sorry if those are too much of a newbie questions. just trying to learn more.

Edited by mfroes

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Would this preprocessor be suitable? any suggestions?

this guy is close to home and has 7.2 rca out. that combined with LX7 should make a good setup with about 2k

what are your thoughts ? maybe ?

or for what i am wanting id better to go so me other path?

not really diving into the 3d sound at the moment with the budget increase.

 

 

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Hi @mfroes

 

The NAD would be very good to match with an amp with 7 channels of 100w or more.

 

The NHT C4 is 86dB sensitivity, with is lowish, but should not be that difficult to drive with 100W or more amps, but that is proper 100w per channel RMS, all channels driven, so the actual power consumption should be around 900w for the 7 channels. As for saying 250w speaker, this is usually a guide to maximum watts, as depending on the music or scene it varies depending on the load placed on it which could vary from 1-2 watts in a quiet scene to 200+ if there are explosions etc, and this is where the amp is important, as if it doesn't have the power to do these changes then the speaker may begin to clip / distort which could cause speaker damage.

 

JJ

 

 

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sorry op and no offence meant to others but waiting around and trying to pick up a rotel 1075 for $500 could mean missing other possible amps that come up... last 3 sold on this forum for an ave of $650.

 

your speakers are inefficient so seemingly need more power than normal to get volume out of them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, hopefullguy said:

sorry op and no offence meant to others but waiting around and trying to pick up a rotel 1075 for $500 could mean missing other possible amps that come up... last 3 sold on this forum for an ave of $650.

 

your speakers are inefficient so seemingly need more power than normal to get volume out of them.

 

 

Hi @hopefullguy,

sorry to bother you with a silly question, but just so i dont have this problem again,

how do i know if the speakers are inefficient? is that by the sensitivity ? my previous was 89db. was loud but not even close to the fidelity(clarity on shows) that this one gives me. and i thought that 86db was close enough to the 89 i had before.

 

what would be a good one ?

not that i will buy right now, but just to learn really.

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https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-sensitivity-3134850

 

guess it depends on what speakers you are use to. i use a combination of klipsch/psa so around 95 db sensitivity.

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The thing with sensitivity is that many brands actually have a lower sensitivity than they state, often 1-2dB less when tested, which requires more power to bring them up to a decent level, also if you are using 10 watts to listen at nearfield level, then you need 100watts to double the volume, then to double it again you will need 1000watts, its a logarithmic progression, and doesn't account for losses due to heat,  poor placement etc..

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Greets.

Thing is the Yamaha HTR3066 is an entry level AVR, the sort used to package up with an entry level speaker pack at Harvey Norman etc.  here and Walmart etc. in the US. Therein lies your immediate limitation. It just doesn't have the oomph to run the NHT's nicely.

10yrs ago, before I left the hi-fi industry and ran away to become a gardener and pensioner, I was recommending to people that a good option for around $2.5 - 3k was to get an AVR which could do bi-amp and main speakers that could make use of that with bi-wirable terminals. Typically, this was a Denon or Marantz AVR with Monitor Audio Bronze series or Jamo 606/608 speaker kits. 

Set up properly, these systems were great value for money and could be very satisfying which gave me a bunch of happy camper customers. 

If I apply the same thinking to what I see available today and I was looking for an AVR for around $1k, the one that keeps coming across my radar is the Onkyo at around $1400. Current model is TXNR696.

https://www.intl.onkyo.com/products/av_components/av_receivers/tx-nr696/index.html

I have seen them and/or their predecessor down to around $900 on sale/promotion at JB. I think Selby have done a few deals too. 

Now the flaw in my proposition here is that the NHT C4 speakers are not bi-wirable from what I can determine which means you couldn't get the benefit from that feature on this AVR. However, the AVR does have front pre out which means you could add a 2 channel power amp at a later date if you decide to keep going with the NHTs or you could go for the bi-amp option if you changed/upgraded speakers. The power output and quality of this AVR should still be a good step up from the Yamaha and it has more home theatre capabilities than I can decipher these days. 

I guess I just see something like this as a neat, clean solution with the possibility of future upgrades and within the region of your budget but I know it won't be the answer on everyone's lips and plenty will choose to disagree with me.

As an added bonus it has a phono input so you can play records :)

Whenever I see them come up on a deal, I try to think of a good enough reason to buy one and have a play but I just haven't come up with a good enough reason yet. Probably, if my Sony STRDN1050 bit the dust, this is what I would look out for if I didn't find anything second hand. It is in my second system in the kitchen/family room and does the job.

 

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