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If you were able to build from the ground up a purpose built listening room, how would you design it? What is the best shape, materials, ceiling height and shape, flooring, size? Not taking expense really into account too much. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone think they already have a very good listening space?

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Posted (edited)

Bigger the better. Everything else, like most things in life,  "it depends"

 

This is my standard at present 

 

 

Edited by Peter the Greek

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Always wanted to build a Greek Threatre. (Doubling up as live venue also)

Reality is it won't happen during this lifetime.

 

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11 hours ago, blakey72 said:

If you were able to build from the ground up a purpose built listening room, how would you design it? What is the best shape, materials, ceiling height and shape, flooring, size? Not taking expense really into account too much. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone think they already have a very good listening space?

Hi Blake,

 

For me the ideal room would be large (30' long), rectangular, of very solid construction, with an even spread of room nodes. It would then be treated with the correct amount of absorption and diffusion.

 

I would want a concrete floor with wood on top, no large glass windows, and a single entry into the room.

 

Cheers

 

David

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Maybe I should do some research. I'm asking because we're possibly looking at building a house, and part of the deal is for me to have a separate dwelling that will function as a listening den. It will be on a farm so space isn't an issue.

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11 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Maybe I should do some research. I'm asking because we're possibly looking at building a house, and part of the deal is for me to have a separate dwelling that will function as a listening den. It will be on a farm so space isn't an issue.

PS Audio have posted some videos of their demo music room builds, dimensions, theory etc, probably worth investigated.

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1 hour ago, awayward said:

PS Audio have posted some videos of their demo music room builds, dimensions, theory etc, probably worth investigated.

That’s exactly what I’m going to say.  PS audio has a calculator, use it to get the right size, that’s the best way to start. 

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Perhaps base it initially on a rectangle room in the minimum stereo triangle and largest size of speakers you would like or already have and want to listen in, say 3-4m Apart Speakers, 4-5m to seat, 2-3m behind speakers, 2-3m either side of speakers, 3-5m+ behind seat, 3m ceilings. 

 

Search many audio room size info sites like https://www.acousticsinsider.com/find-ideal-room-dimensions-using-calculator/ 

 

https://www.psaudio.com/room-calculator/

 

see golden room ratios https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/1237718-room-dimensions-chart.html and http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_golden_trapagon.php

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 21/06/2020 at 2:53 AM, Al.M said:

 

I don't understand their so-called "golden room ratios"??

 

As far as know it ... there is only one set of dimensions that accords with the "golden ratio" - this is: 0.618 : 1 : 1.618

 

iow, say:

  • width = 5m
  • height = 0.618 x 5 = 3.09m
  • length = 1.618 x 5 = 8.09m

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I don't understand their so-called "golden room ratios"??

 

As far as know it ... there is only one set of dimensions that accords with the "golden ratio" - this is: 0.618 : 1 : 1.618

 

iow, say:

  • width = 5m
  • height = 0.618 x 5 = 3.09m
  • length = 1.618 x 5 = 8.09m

 

Andy

 

Yeah I was thinking along those kind of measurements. I was thinking 10mx7mx4m.  I've read a cathedral ceiling works very well?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I don't understand their so-called "golden room ratios"??

 

As far as know it ... there is only one set of dimensions that accords with the "golden ratio" - this is: 0.618 : 1 : 1.618

 

iow, say:

  • width = 5m
  • height = 0.618 x 5 = 3.09m
  • length = 1.618 x 5 = 8.09m

 

Andy

 

I also thought that was fairly absolute.

All I could garnish from a little research is as follows:

 

 

  H   : L :  W
0.618 : 1 : 1.618
        or
 1   : 1.543  : 2.618
 

official Golden ratio >> L/W = (a + b)/a = 1.618

--  seems like height doesn't come into the equation, only the area.

 

Golden rectangle - Wikipedia

 

I could be very wrong in this conclusion. Happy to be corrected.

Edited by Auracle
addition

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28 minutes ago, blakey72 said:

Yeah I was thinking along those kind of measurements. I was thinking 10mx7mx4m.  I've read a cathedral ceiling works very well?

According to this site the dimensions you listed are not ideal and do not create evenly distributed modes which fall into the "golden ratios of the Bolt-area. Worth a look and some good explanations.

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image.gif.c119395dfa3a65b44ac93ec87b157a0f.gif

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1 hour ago, blakey72 said:

Yeah I was thinking along those kind of measurements. I was thinking 10mx7mx4m.  I've read a cathedral ceiling works very well?

 

"Cathedral ceiling" - by which I mean ... the ceiling is higher in the middle of the room, going down the long axis - is problematic, in terms of room dimensioning simulations.

 

All I can say is ... I was able to design the listening room in my last house, when I built it in the late 80s, and this was:

  • 5 x 8 metres,
  • with a ceiling that was 2.7m at the sides of the long walls and went up to about 4.5 in the centre.  (The critical part was to make the 2 slopes of the ceiling meet at 100 deg - not 90 deg - so ceiling to floor vibrations never repeated.)

It worked very well:thumb:

 

Andy

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

"Cathedral ceiling" - by which I mean ... the ceiling is higher in the middle of the room, going down the long axis - is problematic, in terms of room dimensioning simulations.

 

All I can say is ... I was able to design the listening room in my last house, when I built it in the late 80s, and this was:

  • 5 x 8 metres,
  • with a ceiling that was 2.7m at the sides of the long walls and went up to about 4.5 in the centre.  (The critical part was to make the 2 slopes of the ceiling meet at 100 deg - not 90 deg - so ceiling to floor vibrations never repeated.)

It worked very well:thumb:

 

Andy

 

 

 

Love your work Andy. Just what I was thinking (except the 100 deg bit). 

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1 minute ago, blakey72 said:

Love your work Andy. Just what I was thinking (except the 100 deg bit). 

 

The 100 deg subtended angle is important, Blake.  Or, at least, an angle which is 100 - 170 deg.

 

Andy

 

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Great, thanks.

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I wonder if a shape other than rectangle like a hexagon for example would be better. I'll have to do some research.

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4 hours ago, andyr said:

 

I don't understand their so-called "golden room ratios"??

 

As far as know it ... there is only one set of dimensions that accords with the "golden ratio" - this is: 0.618 : 1 : 1.618

 

iow, say:

  • width = 5m
  • height = 0.618 x 5 = 3.09m
  • length = 1.618 x 5 = 8.09m

 

Andy

 

My fantasy room is a pentagon.  With sides 5mts long and 8mts point to point.  5 an 8 are part of the Fibonacci sequence.   Dividing 8 by 5 gives 1.168 which is phi or the golden ratio.  The most beautiful number in the world.  The golden ratio is everywhere.  The ceiling would be pitched with curved intersecting beams in a Fibonacci sequence.

 

John

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Posted (edited)

Received Architectural plans today for my new sound lounge (house) , 12m x 5m x 2.7m (that one has a kitchen stuffed into a corner), if I get bored in that one there is the other 5 x 7 x 2.7m (bar fridge only and planned vinyl storage). Happy days and CLC from the Council in a month or so. I'll report back in a year or so :)

EDIT, these are separate dedicated "listening areas" not bed rooms although one has a kitchen

(sorry had to tell someone, excited my rig gets a new play area) 

Edited by Dirkgerman

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9 hours ago, Assisi said:

My fantasy room is a pentagon.  With sides 5mts long and 8mts point to point.  5 an 8 are part of the Fibonacci sequence.   Dividing 8 by 5 gives 1.168 which is phi or the golden ratio.  The most beautiful number in the world.  The golden ratio is everywhere.  The ceiling would be pitched with curved intersecting beams in a Fibonacci sequence.

 

John

 

That would indeed be a special room, soundwise, John.

 

However, being a mathematician by degree ... I need to correct your arithmetic (lest others get the wrong idea).  :)

 

Dividing 8 by 5 gives you ... just 1.6.  So you would need to make your pentagon with 4.94m sides (to get 8m between points).

 

And the 'golden ratio' is 1.618 - not 1.168!

 

Andy

 

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More walls would actually be bad as the more sides you have the more you start approaching a circle, or a sphere, which means you concentrate nodes around the one common length. Now if you made the walls curve inwards that might be a different story (and look pretty funky).

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How about one of these?

Dome Structure and Design | Precision Structural Enginnering

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I don't know why people keep getting caught up with room ratios. Every room will have bass troubles, its a given. Construction will vary, its a given. The best approach to sizing is like what @Al.M outlined - decide on how many chairs, how many rows, ad adequate offset around the edge of those seats so no one is sitting near a wall or speaker. If its a HT, draw some triangles and work out viewing angles - that'll give screen size and room depth. Add extra for baffle walls, gear racks etc. Done.

 

Then treat as needed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd take a massive cube ANY DAY over a small "perfect" ratio space

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