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Musical Paradise MP 701 Mark II - Tube rolling recommendations


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1 hour ago, Ram18 said:

Awww. that was a stab to the heart ;) .. What is your model as in brand  by the way. Now am not sure if the sales chap said 5U4G Svetlana or Sylvania - the latter is a US tube right which I gather is more expensive. The other thing am reading now is how much do rectifiers make a difference. Some are saying they don't as they just  regulate voltages.  Certainly in Mr Burns case, it does. So I rather go with tried and tested methods, than theories. I don't mind getting a slightly more expensive rectifier tube like the Sylvania, if it does make  a difference. However, I don't think will be up to spending so much like the NOS Mullards.

There's always 2 camps on this.  When i got into tube amplification 10 years ago, i was told that a rectifier was to convert AC to DC.  I did not think that it mattered.  So i used the stock 5R4 Jan Cetron and couldnt work out why there was no bass, and if any, it was soft.  A friend came over with his stash and loaned me a few to try out.  I rolled a few 5AR4s, GZ34s, 5U4s and they all had some differences that changed the sound for the better or worse.  There's no right or wrong here, just what works on the pre and in 'your' system.  I spent some crazy dollars on a GEC U52, and i thought it was Ok on my modwright. 

 

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OK - a few quick comments about valve rolling here. If you reduce the filament voltage then you have more tolerance on the filament current draw. This means you can run higher current draw without ove

Glad more people are enjoying Musical Paradise gear. Garry’s stuff is really great value and he provides good after sales support.  I don’t have this pre-amp but I’ve got the MK3 DAC and also his phon

Hey Ram, Just food for thought.  Why not just try the preamp in stock mode first, let it run in and see where the shortfalls are (if any) in your system.  Its all about synergy, like tube rolling

45 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

There's always 2 camps on this.  When i got into tube amplification 10 years ago, i was told that a rectifier was to convert AC to DC.  I did not think that it mattered.  So i used the stock 5R4 Jan Cetron and couldnt work out why there was no bass, and if any, it was soft.  A friend came over with his stash and loaned me a few to try out.  I rolled a few 5AR4s, GZ34s, 5U4s and they all had some differences that changed the sound for the better or worse.  There's no right or wrong here, just what works on the pre and in 'your' system.  I spent some crazy dollars on a GEC U52, and i thought it was Ok on my modwright. 

 

Thanks Mr Burns,  for your  balanced  perspective.   Going by your experience, I gather it does make a difference. Glad to hear that, so I have one more experiment  to unveil with my rectifier tube :) .  Hope changing it will give me an even more pleasant experience.

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OMG!  Love the Orange!!!! I hope locally I can find this tube.  Looks long and its good that's  long, so more orange glow.... sorry just love the effect. Caps wise, what was offered initially to me was Mundorf Silver Gold Oil. I stuck  with the Obligattos; will run it  for a while. But I guess now I have my eyes on this rectifier.

 

Think I may cap roll at a later stage. For now just sorting out the tube roll

 

 

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Yeah that mesh plates glow.looks awesome in the dark. .If you like that, look at the Sophia electric 274b mesh.  Both these tubes are not cheap though.

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1 minute ago, MrBurns84 said:

Yeah that mesh plates glow.looks awesome in the dark. .If you like that, look at the Sophia electric 274b mesh.  Both these tubes are not cheap though.

Love the look. But just saw the price USD300? The price is as good as it looks!

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Update: I've been trying these tubes for couple of weeks:

dWxBtU4.png?1

 

The W 5u4g seem to provide more warm fluid (aka tubey) sound at to bottom end, resulting to more warmth in musical presentation. My wife was asking me "Are compensating?" lol this thing is huge.

 

The new production Tungsol 12au7 are very good too compared to my other NOS 12AU7 (GE, ECA, RCA all these have the best mids though). The Tungsols have more punch in the bass. Initially boomy but now have balanced sound all around. I like it since it's warmer than stock. I think the JJ 6922 gold pins have the same tonal balance as the Tungsols but the JJs have more gain.

 

I am impressed with the EH 6h30pi. Best in detail and imaging so far. The instrument separation is so much improved. I only have one so I combined it with the JJs at V2 and V3. So that's my best combo at this point - JJs: warm and punchy, EH detail and imaging. The bass is also strong in this combo and not boomy at all.

KdOpsKQ.png?1

I think I'll settle with this for a while and then fiddle with the filter caps :)

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1 hour ago, ferdzb said:

Update: I've been trying these tubes for couple of weeks:

dWxBtU4.png?1

 

The W 5u4g seem to provide more warm fluid (aka tubey) sound at to bottom end, resulting to more warmth in musical presentation. My wife was asking me "Are compensating?" lol this thing is huge.

 

The new production Tungsol 12au7 are very good too compared to my other NOS 12AU7 (GE, ECA, RCA all these have the best mids though). The Tungsols have more punch in the bass. Initially boomy but now have balanced sound all around. I like it since it's warmer than stock. I think the JJ 6922 gold pins have the same tonal balance as the Tungsols but the JJs have more gain.

 

I am impressed with the EH 6h30pi. Best in detail and imaging so far. The instrument separation is so much improved. I only have one so I combined it with the JJs at V2 and V3. So that's my best combo at this point - JJs: warm and punchy, EH detail and imaging. The bass is also strong in this combo and not boomy at all.

KdOpsKQ.png?1

I think I'll settle with this for a while and then fiddle with the filter caps :)

 

Hey @ferdzb Love the YT channel!  Lol re: the 5u4g westinghouse... you should pop in a KR274b or EML 5u4g in there, she'd notice that even more..   I'm sold on the 6h30 tubes in this preamp,  its very balanced, musical seperation is good, and has a nice tone to it.  Can only imagine how much better the Reflecktor versions are, but at $200US a pop, not gonna happen for me.  My only concern with JJ tubes are their reliability.. i just havent had a good run with their tubes.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MrBurns84 said:

 

Hey @ferdzb Love the YT channel!  Lol re: the 5u4g westinghouse... you should pop in a KR274b or EML 5u4g in there, she'd notice that even more..   I'm sold on the 6h30 tubes in this preamp,  its very balanced, musical seperation is good, and has a nice tone to it.  Can only imagine how much better the Reflecktor versions are, but at $200US a pop, not gonna happen for me.  My only concern with JJ tubes are their reliability.. i just havent had a good run with their tubes.

Thanks @MrBurns84 I can only dream of those tubes! Hmm I should get a pair of 6h30 or 6922 for backup then just in case the JJ fails. I think at least one of my stock chinese 6n11 is running bad. I just had loud fart sound happening twice already with those tubes.

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2 hours ago, demoiree said:

thank you @ferdzb for sharing your tube rolling experience! 

 

i like how you mix 6volt tubes , 6922 + 6h30 :) 

 

combination for this preamp is endless...

Ha ha, together with variations of 12au7s, I spent endless repetitive comparison of tracks - driving my family crazy. 

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the only thing i worry is that it may cause damage to the the tube pins if swapping too often . 

 

also need to turn on and off power amp , as the MP701 does output high DC voltages when powering up and down.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, ferdzb said:

 I just had loud fart sound happening twice already with those tubes.

@ferdzb lol, yep..they're getting microphonic. 

 

41 minutes ago, ferdzb said:

I can only dream of those tubes! Hmm I should get a pair of 6h30 or 6922 for backup then just in case the JJ fails.

Same here too!  I got the EMLs a few years back when i was earning good coin no kids etc...haha.   Yeah i think its just me and JJ dont mix, they usually go bad on me after a few weeks.   Good to have spares, nothing worst then a tube goes bad and you cant use the system.

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43 minutes ago, ferdzb said:

Ha ha, together with variations of 12au7s, I spent endless repetitive comparison of tracks - driving my family crazy. 

Haha me too.. missus thinks that i ONLY have 2 records..

 

34 minutes ago, demoiree said:

the only thing i worry is that it may cause damage to the the tube pins if swapping too often . 

 

also need to turn on and off power amp , as the MP701 does output high DC voltages when powering up and down.

 

 

It can happen just be gentle wiggling them out and into the sockets.  Yes definately do let the pre cool down for an hour or so.. i made a mistake changing tubes 15mins after and there was residual charge in pre.  I could hear that 'bzzrr' sound through my speakers when the pins of the new cold tube touched the socket pins... eeekk!!

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My EH 6H30pi gone Microphonics in less than a week of used. All 3! Can't believe it. And that was after my EH 6922 on V4 gone faulty! Now waiting for a replacement (6H30pi). Chap wasn't happy at all. He has stopped responding to my email. Just hope he will shipped it out as agreed. Anyway, I rolled back the 12BH7 and I must say I quite like it. It has more texture and also good sound stage on my system. Maybe I was sick with 6922 and 6h30pi failed on me! Anyways, ordered the caps since Tuesday but have yet to ship them out to me. Ok.. that's my rant for today. 

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2 hours ago, R-Y74 said:

My EH 6H30pi gone Microphonics in less than a week of used. All 3! Can't believe it. And that was after my EH 6922 on V4 gone faulty! Now waiting for a replacement (6H30pi). Chap wasn't happy at all. He has stopped responding to my email. Just hope he will shipped it out as agreed. Anyway, I rolled back the 12BH7 and I must say I quite like it. It has more texture and also good sound stage on my system. Maybe I was sick with 6922 and 6h30pi failed on me! Anyways, ordered the caps since Tuesday but have yet to ship them out to me. Ok.. that's my rant for today. 

Whoa..that aint good...all 3? I'd imagine he would be too :)  Good to at least have some backup tubes in this situation.  Lets hope that the next lot survives.

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4 hours ago, R-Y74 said:

My EH 6H30pi gone Microphonics in less than a week of used. All 3! Can't believe it. And that was after my EH 6922 on V4 gone faulty! Now waiting for a replacement (6H30pi). Chap wasn't happy at all. He has stopped responding to my email. Just hope he will shipped it out as agreed. Anyway, I rolled back the 12BH7 and I must say I quite like it. It has more texture and also good sound stage on my system. Maybe I was sick with 6922 and 6h30pi failed on me! Anyways, ordered the caps since Tuesday but have yet to ship them out to me. Ok.. that's my rant for today. 

Oh dear. Hope the next batch survives.

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8 hours ago, R-Y74 said:

My EH 6H30pi gone Microphonics in less than a week of used. All 3! Can't believe it. And that was after my EH 6922 on V4 gone faulty! Now waiting for a replacement (6H30pi). Chap wasn't happy at all. He has stopped responding to my email. Just hope he will shipped it out as agreed. Anyway, I rolled back the 12BH7 and I must say I quite like it. It has more texture and also good sound stage on my system. Maybe I was sick with 6922 and 6h30pi failed on me! Anyways, ordered the caps since Tuesday but have yet to ship them out to me. Ok.. that's my rant for today. 

One 6922 failed on me and it was a little outside the 30 days , but Neil was happy to replace it . 

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finally some quality caps have arrived , preliminary observations of mine... Definately improvement towards "airyness" of the sound , it sounds more holographic and spacious .

 

I initially swapped in the bypass cap , I can't seems to hear any major diff, as soon as I swapped in the coupling caps , it sounded really airy and holographic . 

 

 

 

 

20200905_150516.jpg

20200905_150522.jpg

20200905_150530.jpg

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7 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

@demoiree Very nice!!  Does the Jantzens sound more spacious, wider than the Obblis?

Yeah , it appears so , hopefully not placebo effect ! Haha

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1 hour ago, demoiree said:

finally some quality caps have arrived , preliminary observations of mine... Definately improvement towards "airyness" of the sound , it sounds more holographic and spacious .

 

I initially swapped in the bypass cap , I can't seems to hear any major diff, as soon as I swapped in the coupling caps , it sounded really airy and holographic . 

 

 

 

 

20200905_150516.jpg

20200905_150522.jpg

20200905_150530.jpg

Looks lovely demoiree. Are you referring to the Jantzens?  Glad you like the feel.

 

May I know if they sound warm or neutral;  pretty detailed? Hows the bass?  Guess it doesnt affect gain right.  Right now I have sufficient gain.

 

 Is it a significant upgrade from Obligattos in terms of  the holographic  feel? I am thinking of getting a pair as well as opposed to the Mundorf Silver Gold and Oil which I was initially considering.

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2 hours ago, demoiree said:

Yeah , it appears so , hopefully not placebo effect ! Haha

Listen to them for a week and then swap them around.  And then listen to them again.

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3 hours ago, Ram18 said:

 

Looks lovely demoiree. Are you referring to the Jantzens?  Glad you like the feel.

 

May I know if they sound warm or neutral;  pretty detailed? Hows the bass?  Guess it doesnt affect gain right.  Right now I have sufficient gain.

 

 Is it a significant upgrade from Obligattos in terms of  the holographic  feel? I am thinking of getting a pair as well as opposed to the Mundorf Silver Gold and Oil which I was initially considering.

Hey Ram 

Yea I'm referring to the jantzens , I'd say it also improves the clarity and less noisy when compared to obbligattos . 

 

 

Did not notice any change to gain

 

3 hours ago, Ram18 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't say it is night and day change , but for the price I feel it is worth the upgrade. 

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14 minutes ago, demoiree said:

Hey Ram 

Yea I'm referring to the jantzens , I'd say it also improves the clarity and less noisy when compared to obbligattos . 

 

 

Did not notice any change to gain

 

 

I won't say it is night and day change , but for the price I feel it is worth the upgrade. 

Thanks demoiree for sharing the useful insights 

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received my new SGO on father's day. Best father's day gift ever from Auspost. Been listening to it for 4 days now. The preamp is really quiet now. I had buzzing issue previously, but after swapping the caps... gone. definitely an improvement from the obblics. it's a lot quiet now. i think the mundorf caps has made this pre more transparent. not sure if it's placebo but tube rolling now is a lot more noticeable. anyway, i thnk this is the best upgrade among all upgrades i have done at the moment. i think i'll leave the power filter caps as it is. I can now "feel" the difference between 12BH7 vs the 6922... before that everything sounds like SS preamp. 

 

 

 

20200906_211932.thumb.jpg.72b357fd51849fb9c531d113c7e3c6c1.jpg

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@R-Y74 

 

thanks for sharing!

 

i'd suggest use the stock tubes to run them in for at least 50 hours , i  left mine on for days :D , and it did further improve the sound.

 

 

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Well done @R-Y74!  The Obbligs are good but i do find them noisy somehow...swapping them over even to the basic Mundorf evo oils dropped the noise down a fair bit.   These SGO's will take the pre to another whole level and does help clearly delineate the tube rolling differences.

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6 hours ago, demoiree said:

@R-Y74 

i'd suggest use the stock tubes to run them in for at least 50 hours , i  left mine on for days :D , and it did further improve the sound.

I havent burned in mine for long yet, but the cheaper evo oils have opened up more than the evo supreme oils.   Mundorfs do have a house sound.

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53 minutes ago, MrBurns84 said:

I havent burned in mine for long yet, but the cheaper evo oils have opened up more than the evo supreme oils.   Mundorfs do have a house sound.

Hi Mr Burns curioous to know what the house sound is like. Toggling between the Mundorf and Jantzens for caps. Both seem to be pretty good.

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21 hours ago, Ram18 said:

Hi Mr Burns curioous to know what the house sound is like. Toggling between the Mundorf and Jantzens for caps. Both seem to be pretty good.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

 

His findings are quite spot on the mundorf evo oils and supreme evo oils that i have heard.

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I replaced the Bennic filter caps with Mundorf Supremes.  Huge! :D same length but fatter than the coupling caps. Man, it's a pain feeding the wires into the terminals. 

 

I tested a bit and I was greeted by clarity in voice and overall airiness  (perhaps it's due to lower noise floor?) and bass is more defined, I didn't expect that.  I like it!

 

ym2y0KK.png?1

 

 

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1 hour ago, ferdzb said:

I replaced the Bennic filter caps with Mundorf Supremes.  Huge! :D same length but fatter than the coupling caps. Man, it's a pain feeding the wires into the terminals. 

 

I tested a bit and I was greeted by clarity in voice and overall airiness  (perhaps it's due to lower noise floor?) and bass is more defined, I didn't expect that.  I like it!

 

ym2y0KK.png?1

 

 

Haha.. welcome to the club of cap rolling.  They're big but well worth it imo.  Yes, swapping out the stock caps does yeild a lower noise floor, the tube noise is also lowered by quite a bit.   

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Sorry for being ignorant. What does tube noise or  floor noise actually mean? I somehow dont experience this noise from my MP. Or maybe I am not looking at the right things.

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On 16/09/2020 at 11:49 PM, Ram18 said:

Oh My such details. Most beyond me R-Y74. 

Hey @Ram18.  Do this.  When the system is on, just turn up the volume on the preamp to you normal listening loudness.  Without playing any music, sit at your listening position, listen out if you can hear any audible hiss from the speakers.  

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