mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Been thinking to upgrade my speaker for a while now. My current speaker is liquid base sonic blade don't think many people heard of them but they are basically er audio electrostatic panel with 8 inch base driver hybrid. I think there are a few similar diy er audio hybrid setup around in SNA. They have served me well for 4 years but now time to try something new. My current amplifier is McIntosh MC2505 and out of my research there are 3 speaker I'm interested with Yamaha ns1000, diatone ds2000 and for something new focal chorus 726. All I chose because I prefer more detailed sound with large sound stage. What you guys think? Considering something under $2k. The room size is 4*4.5m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anandpkumar Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 If you are open to buying used gear, lots of bargains to be had in the classifieds section of the forum A few examples in your budget And for a bit more than your budget..... If I had the money, the PMC would be my pick Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) @anandpkumar used definitely no problem actually the one I actually listed is used or demo price. Don't think I will get any upgrade over mine for $2k new. However don't think the ones you listed suits my style on more detailed sound. As a reference my preference in headphones land is Sennheiser hd800. And instruments separation is also critical to my preference Edited June 7, 2020 by mloutfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anandpkumar Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, mloutfie said: As a reference my preference in headphones land is Sennheiser hd800. And instruments separation is also critical to my preference The Focals are a good choice then, known for being detailed - maybe something from higher in the Focal range than the chorus - the Arias as an example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) I have NS1000 in a 4-5m room and like them for their extreme detail and strong output but the bass is too thin for me so needs a sub or made into DIY ported cabinets. The speakers I gravitate to long term are Acoustat ESL 121 full panels, which sound like Quad 2905 only more reliable. Havnt heard the Diatones but read they are good. The Focal 726 would be a let down from both these. In the $2k used price range higher end Focals like 826 ($1300), 1027s ($2k) Electra 926 and other brands like Spendor S100 ($2-3k), Martin Logan ($2-3k), Jamo Concert 11 ($1500), Ambience hybrid ribbon ($1-2k), VAF I-66 older models ($1500), Dynaudio 82 and similar ($1-2k) are worth considering. I also have similar ER Audio ESL panels in DIY setup and if you are expecting similar midrange voice detail only things like the VAF I-66, Spendor S100, Ambience, NS1000, ML and other ESLs would satisfy you. Edited June 7, 2020 by Al.M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5L15 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 considering that you are in Melbourne have you thought about auditioning Osborn Speakers F4 or Eos? shop local while Vic borders are closed. https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/f4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Al.M said: I also have similar ER Audio ESL panels in DIY setup and if you are expecting similar midrange voice detail only things like the VAF I-66, Spendor S100, Ambience, NS1000, ML and other ESLs would satisfy you. Thanks that is really relevant for me. Yes I would want to beat the current details. The only issues with the ESL panel is the high rolled off which I hope to get with a new speaker. Ns1000 seem to be good match for me from what I read and from the net diatone is similar with its belyrium mid and tweeter. 2 hours ago, Al.M said: The Focal 726 would be a let down from both these. In the $2k used price range higher end Focals like 826 ($1300), 1027s ($2k) Electra 926 I heard 826 is a better finished 726? 1027 and 926 would be good if I can find one also 2 hours ago, 5L15 said: considering that you are in Melbourne have you thought about auditioning Osborn Speakers F4 or Eos? shop local while Vic borders are closed. https://www.osbornloudspeakers.com.au/f4 Thanks for the link. What kind of sound signature does it have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, mloutfie said: The only issues with the ESL panel is the high rolled off which I hope to get with a new speaker. Ns1000 Very few or virtually no conventional cone speaker images as well compared to an ESL so that is another trade off, certainly not in the price range except maybe fullrange dual concentric cone speakers. Havnt heard but maybe Zu audio speakers and similar may suit. The Ns1000 doesn’t image very well. Of all the cone speakers I mentioned VAF I-66 images the best, much better than the Focal 1027s I sold last year for $2100. There is a Martin Logan Theos ESL hybrid for sale here yesterday for $2500. Edited June 7, 2020 by Al.M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 24 minutes ago, Al.M said: The Ns1000 doesn’t image very well. Of all the cone speakers I mentioned VAF I-66 images the best, I might need to rethink the ns1000 if it doesn't image well. With ESL it is true it images amazing bit it has a narrow sweet spot for imaging. Most of the time it's only me so no problemo but when I have people over it's hard to share the sweet spot i was considering the Martin Logan also but it seem to have the same narrow sweet spot same like the er ESL. Or maybe I just have to be selfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Looking at your amplifier and room size I think Osborn Eos with focal driver might be the best choice. They are small but crazy. Your amp might not have enough power for Focal Electra or PMC. Generally speaking Osborn, Focal and PMC are very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al.M Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) wrong post. Edited June 7, 2020 by Al.M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Irek said: Looking at your amplifier and room size I think Osborn Eos with focal driver might be the best choice. They are small but crazy. Your amp might not have enough power for Focal Electra or PMC. Generally speaking Osborn, Focal and PMC are very similar. Do you reckon 50-70watt is not enough even for 1008? Does it really need 100? Osborne Eos looks promising thanks I'll put it into my list especially the Eos reference looks good for my room size. The focal tweeter model is an old one so might be rarer to find Edited June 7, 2020 by mloutfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) I owned some Martin Logan Vantage( Theos with Active Sub) Phenomenal detail & Speed but my 5.5 x 5 metre room was even a tad small... These shine further out from the wall. I got them to work perfectly by taming/cutting the excessive bass with 'Studio Grade' Parametric EQ from my recording studio. Edited June 7, 2020 by bryansamui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 39 minutes ago, bryansamui said: I owned some Martin Logan Vantage( Theos with Active Sub) Phenomenal detail & Speed but my 5.5 x 5 metre room was even a tad small... These shine further out from the wall. I got them to work perfectly by taming/cutting the excessive bass with 'Studio Grade' Parametric EQ from my recording studio. Yeah didn't think about the excessive bass might need to reconsider that. For wall distance my ESL also need distance at the moment it's 1.7m from the wall.that should be plenty for the Theo's also right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioGeek Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I think the Focal house sound is what your after, which brings Osborne into play as allready suggested. Higher end B & W is probably the other "house sound" you would appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Yes.. 1.7 sh 21 minutes ago, mloutfie said: Yeah didn't think about the excessive bass might need to reconsider that. For wall distance my ESL also need distance at the moment it's 1.7m from the wall.that should be plenty for the Theo's also right? Yes. 1.7m would be good.. My ML's were closer (.800 - 1M)and would have been better at 1.7.. Those Theos are a bargain.. I only sold mine to scratch a 5 yr itch.. Not an upgrade but a sideways move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) This is what replaced my $8000 M Logans.. Custom designed (1 offs) Ascencion very large Standmounts (Harbeth HL5/ Spendor 1/2 inspired) Won't suit everyone as audition is all but impossible... I bought as i new the parts quality used drivers etc could not be found in anything i could audition and was confident with the implementation/build.. Auditioned were: B&W 603, Wharfedale Lintons, Elac 247.3 and some Preowned Proac response 2'... Better in some areas that the Logans and not quite as good in others... On par with owith the Logans Speakers up to the $4000 mark that i tried didn't really rate... These cost me $1650 direct from manufacturer but if they had the normal 2 extra margins would be around 4k i would think? Use SB acoustics drivers which are in Wilson Acoustics and Revel's better offerings.. If you are in Sydney, more than welcome for a listen.. Edited June 7, 2020 by bryansamui 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 @bryansamui That looks good is that their MONITOR M823SQ range? and would you consider the imaging and sound stage compare to the martin logan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 48 minutes ago, AudioGeek said: I think the Focal house sound is what your after, which brings Osborne into play as allready suggested. Higher end B & W is probably the other "house sound" you would appreciate. yeah I've heard 805d2 and I'd be happy with that. Just can't find anything yet under 2k with that quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, mloutfie said: @bryansamui That looks good is that their MONITOR M823SQ range? and would you consider the imaging and sound stage compare to the martin logan? Comparable Soundstage and imaging i think.. Main Differences :Logans have more ' speed and immediacy' on transients...so fast. No cone can compete really. Also more air and a bit more upper treble detail retrival than the Ascensions (but i was expecting that ) Acencions are still very good though. Midrange : 50/50 call. Logans may win in imaging shootout? Acencions win in timbral correctness.. Instruments sound more real. It sounds like a real piano in the room etc.. Bass: Ascencions win all day.. The SB 8" driver in the TL cabinet eats the ML bass for breakfast. . So Clean and fast and no roll off even at 30Hz..This is the result of a brilliantly designed Transmission line.. Most manufacturers won't do them because they are too difficult to get right and too expensive to build.. This guy (Edward) has been refining the art for 30yrs..Has the transmission line nailed.. Upright bass etc is just magic.. He Called it the M853SQ ( new model name as they were a custom order) 650x 300x400.. 28kg! Took about 20 - 30hrs on them before the speaker drivers integrated ( crossover burning in???) They came with Black Grills. They are from the monitor series but i don't think they really sound like a studio monitor... I have a recording studio and studio monitors by and large have great detail retrival so you can hear deep into the recording but sound flat, bland and lack soul. Edited June 8, 2020 by bryansamui 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 11 hours ago, mloutfie said: Do you reckon 50-70watt is not enough even for 1008? Does it really need 100? Osborne Eos looks promising thanks I'll put it into my list especially the Eos reference looks good for my room size. The focal tweeter model is an old one so might be rarer to find I was referring to mid bass driver W cone. It's unbelievable. Tweeter is not from Focal. I think Eos is design to work well with less power amplifiers or tube amps. To get a big sound from Electra 1008 your amp may not have enough juice, but I never heard them with your amp so can't be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 Eos reference and the ascension M853SQ seems to have similar characteristics unless I'm understanding it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mloutfie said: Eos reference and the ascension M853SQ seems to have similar characteristics unless I'm understanding it wrong. Superlatives and descriptions can only so far to describe 'tone' in sound, as does the description of 'Sweet' in taste does.. Eg A grape can taste 'sweet' as does an orange, mango, or chocolate., but they all taste different. ... So you to take the descriptions with ' a grain of salt' do to speak... The English language is simply not rich enough to describe sound accurately.. Edited June 8, 2020 by bryansamui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mloutfie Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 That's so true it would be so hard to give a comment on 2 speaker I never heard. But just from reading the comments as a really broad generalisation both speaker I gather seem on the detailed sound spectrum rather than smooth spectrum. And both has decent imaging. That's the characteristics that I'm thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansamui Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) One attribute of the Ascensions was you can play them loud and yet it doesn't seem loud if that makes sense.. ( Easy Going).. I have sensitive ears (minor tinitus) from years of playing guitar in bar bands so am intolerant to speakers with 'hot' tweeters( hurts my ears) .. Theses have smooth but extended tweeters so i can listen at low or high volume for extended periods without it grating on my ears. ( Just grates in the neighbours haha) Edited June 8, 2020 by bryansamui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts