Janjuggler Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Hi All, Still yet another Denon deal on Amazon AU, JJ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbasement Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Great price! I need to sell some stuff for that. Thanks JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 is there a noticeable difference between 103 and 103R? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Quiet...Listen Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Spider27 said: is there a noticeable difference between 103 and 103R? Good question! Anybody?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08Boss302 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I'll offer what I know as I have been interested in the Denon LOMC and HOMC carts and reading about these over the past month or so. I have come to understand each cart step increases the level of refinement (subjectively as all things are). The 110 is of course HO so not relevant here to the question above. The 103 been around like 50yrs and was the broadcast favourite for aeons, tracks like a trooper and performs very well but is said to maybe lack some refinement but has warmth - that said, I have not read anything inherently negative on it at all and like many things some prefer it over its newer family member the 103R which is attributed to being more refined but can be an analytical affair albeit with a bit more bass and high end to it than the 103. Everyone hears differently I guess. There was also improved suspension in the 103R and it has an ever so slightly lower output. I am sure those that have had both carts will chime on this. Tonearm matching is of course is a factor with a reletively low compliance cart at 8.2grams too. There are some good clips on YouTube detailing the Denon range and comparisons. Recently there is a one with LP gears own Bin cart vs the DL110 and the 103R. I know YouTube isnt the ideal medium but its a reference starting point. I googled "Denon 103 vs 103R" and there was plenty of great informative user experiences on many forums, I won't link to another forum here but type the search in and grab a beer or coffee for a good read. ....Not sure If I have actually helped any but after my research with the price the 103R actually with the price Amazon has all the Denon carts they're all a very appealing prospect. cheers 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 The Denon DL-103R is a substantial step up in performance in my experience. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Luc said: Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices. Is the wooden body that improves to another level only apply to 103R or it also applies to 103? Not sure how much it improves and I guess that it applies to both and improve to another level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Luc said: Geoff Blundell at @Toma Audio is a big fan of the 103R and says fitted with a wooden body it enters into another level and punches well above it's weight and class. The late Duc from here, friend to many, made superb wooden bodies. A Sth Korean audiophile company also makes superb bodies for these also and the German guy who's all over eBay makes good ones at reasonable prices. 103R in Duc's Black Ebony body - Duc's 12" Univector arm. Was a beautiful combination. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telecine Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: 103R in Duc's Black Ebony body - Duc's 12" Univector arm. Was a beautiful combination. Still is Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Telecine said: Still is Keith That's good to hear, J. Cheers, Keith Edited June 2, 2020 by cheekyboy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honreekea Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 does anyone know how the 103R will go with a Clearaudio Clarify arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinilink Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Does anyone using this cart on rega rb300 arm? Currently using sumiko bps which I am happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulinap Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Honreekea said: does anyone know how the 103R will go with a Clearaudio Clarify arm? I have used Vinyl Engine tool to check the suitability..... https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php You need to know the effective mass of your tonearm and cartridge weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekyboy Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, vinilink said: Does anyone using this cart on rega rb300 arm? Currently using sumiko bps which I am happy with. 3 minutes ago, pulinap said: I have used Vinyl Engine tool to check the suitability..... https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php You need to know the effective mass of your tonearm and cartridge weight. The tonearm mass is 11.5g and I have fitted both the DL103 and DL103R to both a RB300 arm and a RB600 arm and they worked fine. I would advise adding 2 or 3 grams to the headshell to give it a little more mass, but even without the added weight, they'll perform well in that arm. Cheers, Keith 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinilink Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, cheekyboy said: The tonearm mass is 11.5g and I have fitted both the DL103 and DL103R to both a RB300 arm and a RB600 arm and they worked fine. I would advise adding 2 or 3 grams to the headshell to give it a little more mass, but even without the added weight, they'll perform well in that arm. Cheers, Keith Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honreekea Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, pulinap said: I have used Vinyl Engine tool to check the suitability..... https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php You need to know the effective mass of your tonearm and cartridge weight. Thanks. But,... call me stupid, how do i work out the effective mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulinap Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Honreekea said: Thanks. But,... call me stupid, how do i work out the effective mass? Need to ask the tonearm manufacturer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honreekea Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, pulinap said: Need to ask the tonearm manufacturer..... thanks......I will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulinap Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Denon 103 variants (original body) 'usually' work with medium to heavy arms..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Spider27 said: Is the wooden body that improves to another level only apply to 103R or it also applies to 103? Not sure how much it improves and I guess that it applies to both and improve to another level? You'll have to buy a wooden body and find out...only way. No amount of back and forth here will tell your ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMac76 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 01/06/2020 at 12:19 PM, Spider27 said: is there a noticeable difference between 103 and 103R? Hi Jim, I’d be surprised if a stock 103R beat the rebuilt woodbody 103 you bought from me. That was one of Duc’s as well. Just my opinion, but there’s only one way to find out. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider27 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, PMac76 said: Hi Jim, I’d be surprised if a stock 103R beat the rebuilt woodbody 103 you bought from me. That was one of Duc’s as well. Just my opinion, but there’s only one way to find out. Peter I guess that the only way to quantify the difference it makes is to compare among 4 different scenarios into same system (TT, PhonoPre and Speakers). 1. Stock 103 vs 103R 2. Stock 103 vs Woody Stock 103 3. Stock 103R vs Woody 103R 4. Woody 103 vs Woody 103R What's even more interesting (confusing?) is there are so many different types of woods (Cocobolo, Teak, Ebony, Bubinga, Zebrawood, Mahogany, Walnut, Snakewood etc etc). Some people say that different wood housing even makes difference due to variety of density and unique characteristics of wood. And, there is another twist, Aluminum and magnesium body from Zu Audio and other companies which people claim that it also makes sonic difference in sound comparing with wood housing. Just thinking of how daunting this might be, Ignorance might be a blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I had an aluminium bodied 103 with a Soundsmith ruby cantilever and top of the range stylus profile, replaced it with a VdH DDT-II which I now have in my Rock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I too run a 103r in a Duc wood body - just fantastic. It just seems to find a beautiful road between detail, vibe, tone and cost! There are still plenty of people who can make a wood body, and plenty of vids about putting one together oneself if you're so inclined..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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