t_mike Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 $20k speakers are actually $17k speakers with $3k worth of cabinet finishing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, t_mike said: $20k speakers are actually $17k speakers with $3k worth of cabinet finishing. I was actually thinking the other way around! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwstereo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, t_mike said: $20k speakers are actually $17k speakers with $3k worth of cabinet finishing. 2 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: I was actually thinking the other way around! Sadly you are probably both correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, pwstereo said: Sadly you are probably both correct Yeh you are right, $20k speakers are $4k parts top! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hi-Fi Whipped said: Yeh you are right, $20k speakers are $4k parts top! yeah no one wants to talk of all the research and development time, blood sweat tears, number of prototypes that got burned through to make the speakers... let alone infrastructure and resources and costs to get to market people will always of course talk of the costs they can see or identify... far too many DIY efforts that take the very best of everything and still sound like junk... the real skill id suggest is taking some really quite affordable and available parts and getting to work together in a design to create some magic that is more rare... see the design and engineering going into some great speakers and its no wonder they cost what they do... ... I am also of belief prices of hifi have in last 10 years simply skyrocketed for another reason... there is a great slab of market that won't buy something unless it costs a lot must be rubbish otherwise .... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwstereo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, betty boop said: yeah no one wants to talk of all the research and development time, blood sweat tears, number of prototypes that got burned through to make the speakers... let alone infrastructure and resources and costs to get to market That has to be acknowledged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Fi Whipped Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, betty boop said: yeah no one wants to talk of all the research and development time, blood sweat tears, number of prototypes that got burned through to make the speakers... let alone infrastructure and resources and costs to get to market people will always of course talk of the costs they can see or identify... far too many DIY efforts that take the very best of everything and still sound like junk... the real skill id suggest is taking some really quite affordable and available parts and getting to work together in a design to create some magic that is more rare... see the design and engineering going into some great speakers and its no wonder they cost what they do... ... I am also of belief prices of hifi have in last 10 years simply skyrocketed for another reason... there is a great slab of market that won't buy something unless it costs a lot must be rubbish otherwise .... Thank you Al, a delicate reminder (or smack in the face) of what most of us enjoy everyday, the cost of industrial design and sound engineering should not be understated! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloth Ears Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 On 21/05/2020 at 2:29 PM, SBM said: Hi Guys, Greetings , just out of curiosity want to know what is the difference you find in the speakers say cost <4000$ and >20000$ and above. Really is there any thing that makes the money spent justice? Excuse me if its not right question. Always puzzled if some one own a 15000$ Spendor or Wilson !!!! At the end everything is music and sound. What is the difference? I am sure here in SNA mostly everyone would have moved from lower to higher cost speakers. Want to know how do you justify the money spent on speakers and electronics? Is it like Mercedes to Rolls Royce of music? No offence just my thoughts. Thanks One thing to think about is that $500 worth of speaker driven by $20K worth of amplifier will unquestionably sound better than $20K worth of speaker driven by $500 worth of amplifier. The two things cannot be thought about separately. I've heard my speakers (the same model) driven by a TA-N1 and they definitely had the edge on my pair of Rotels. It's possible there are exceptions - if so, I want to know the amp!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuDog78 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 4k speakers are probably are more then fine but keeping with the car analogy. Sometimes you just have to pay more for something a little more desirable. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 18 hours ago, Cloth Ears said: One thing to think about is that $500 worth of speaker driven by $20K worth of amplifier will unquestionably sound better than $20K worth of speaker driven by $500 worth of amplifier. The two things cannot be thought about separately. I've heard my speakers (the same model) driven by a TA-N1 and they definitely had the edge on my pair of Rotels. It's possible there are exceptions - if so, I want to know the amp!!! this is a very good point. my example I gave earlier... definitely $8k of amplification(pre and pwr) had my old speakers punching way beyond weight... but that same $8k amplification on my current speakers (~$20k) back n day sounded quite a step up...as did upgrading later to $15k (pre-pwr) combo that took things significant step further again.... do get what pay for ...but have to sometimes make significant steps up to get gains worth justifying the change over .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey72 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 I spent $20k on my speakers. RRP was $3999 but he was a nice guy and they sounded good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Because while you may definitely get less than you paid for, at most you can only get what you paid for. The best componentry and construction doesn't come cheap. 95% of $20K speakers sound better than ALL $4k speakers , but there is NO speaker at $4k that sounds as good as the best $20K speakers (whatever best may mean.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey72 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ittaku said: best $20K speakers (whatever best may mean.) Yeah I wanna see best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ittaku Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Just now, blakey72 said: Yeah I wanna see best Hence the qualifier Best is very personal, or perhaps it's philosophical, or technical, or artistic, or maybe all of the above, or none... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 every maker tends to think theirs is the best as with their requisite harem of fans but yeah best will be different through each persons lens. one mans wine is another vinegar and all.. many roads lead... etc... as i mentioned earlier, price is really not a good indicator... especially given there is certainly something going on in more recent years where things are priced because thats how they'll sell. if it isn't priced at $20k it can't compete with $20k speakers and can't be any good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussievintage Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Just now, betty boop said: as i mentioned earlier price is really not a good indicator... especially given there is certainly something going on in more recent years where things are priced because thats how they'll sell. if it isn't priced at $20k it can't compete with $20k speakers and can't be any good Exactly. Self justifying pricing. It works. It can be seen at work on SNA every day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwstereo Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 20 hours ago, Cloth Ears said: One thing to think about is that $500 worth of speaker driven by $20K worth of amplifier will unquestionably sound better than $20K worth of speaker driven by $500 worth of amplifier. That's an extreme difference in pricing between amp and speakers, but it's also the opposite of what I'd always been led to believe and had understood. The electrical-mechanical-acoustical interface that the speaker perfoms is the weakest link in the chain of audio playback surely? The electronics are largely well-sorted and even mass-market amps are well and truly good enough, and good ones are close to perfection. But loudspeakers are more difficult to get close to perfection. Cheap speakers are nowhere close to perfection and sound it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty boop Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 minute ago, aussievintage said: Exactly. Self justifying pricing. It works. It can be seen at work on SNA every day. as example lets say compare three speakers A , B and C all costing $20k on our home market... but hey what if speaker B is only worth $10k back in its own home country...and only costs $20k here due to range of reasons (valid or invalid) .... even just there price breaks down in being valid as justification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrSK Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 On 21/05/2020 at 6:25 PM, SGS said: I've always compared speakers to a bottle of red. Spend $20 on a red and you will get a decent drink. Spend 5 to 10 and chances are its not very good. Now spend 40, it may be only a little better, spend 80 maybe a little better again. So the higher you go, the less it improves. In speakers a comparable price could be 2000. Spend double a little improvement and so on and on. You get the idea. And you find that the winemaker moves around a bit and sometimes the winemaker used by some big brands actually has their own brand too which is just as good or better for less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrSK Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) Generally increased clarity, realism and holographic imaging. However sometimes going from $8k to $30k, you can get same or worse speakers and a lighter wallet. Edited May 29, 2020 by DrSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders3 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 $20k speakers gets you both respect on SNA and fast track to the Family Court. Good luck! (let someone else deal with lawyer, go secondhand on here mate). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 I just watched a video by Zero Fidelity and it sums up some interesting views. That all speakers are a compromise and as you spend more the compromises get less (in his view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrSK Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, rocky500 said: I just watched a video by Zero Fidelity and it sums up some interesting views. That all speakers are a compromise and as you spend more the compromises get less (in his view). Yes but depends on the builder and power of the brand (ie what profit margins and price tag can they maintain for various amounts of compromise). There are certainly some big names trading on their brand while some less known names build better less compromised speakers for less. Some hifi stores trade on this. Won't sell or show some other brands until they know you can't afford the brands that cost a whole lot more with their % take. I recommend finding perfectionist builders that aren't big names. I have heard plenty of compromised $20k speakers. Edited May 29, 2020 by DrSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky500 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DrSK said: I have heard plenty of compromised $20k speakers. He mentions they all do even 100k speakers have compromises. Edited May 29, 2020 by rocky500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DrSK Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, rocky500 said: He mentions they all do even 100k speakers have compromises. They will. That's engineering. I'd hope they aren't as blatant as some I've heard in the sub $30k region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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