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Potentially, and unfortuantely, might need to be looking at slimline AVRs.

Seems like the best are the Yamaha Rx-AS710 and the Marantz NR1710.
Seems like the Marantz is newer and a little more future proofed. The Yamaha seems to be beefier though. I dont know if this correct, but from what I can find, the max power cosnumption on the Yamma is 500w, and the Marantz is 250w. Could that be right?

Any other thoughts on what would be a better option? I will only be running a 3.1 setup with bookshelf speakers.

 

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16 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

. I dont know if this correct, but from what I can find, the max power cosnumption on the Yamma is 500w, and the Marantz is 250w. Could that be right?

 

 

The downloadable owners manual shows 190W max consumption for the Yamaha:

 

 

yamaha.PNG

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23 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

Potentially, and unfortuantely, might need to be looking at slimline AVRs.

Seems like the best are the Yamaha Rx-AS710 and the Marantz NR1710.
Seems like the Marantz is newer and a little more future proofed. The Yamaha seems to be beefier though. I dont know if this correct, but from what I can find, the max power cosnumption on the Yamma is 500w, and the Marantz is 250w. Could that be right?

Any other thoughts on what would be a better option? I will only be running a 3.1 setup with bookshelf speakers.

 

denons heos slim line avr is another ...

 

https://www.denon.com/en-au/shop/preamplifiers/heosavr

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Yeah was just looking at the HEOS actually. Less features but still everything I need. Could be an option.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, pete_mac said:

The downloadable owners manual shows 190W max consumption for the Yamaha:

 

 

 

The manual also has this spec. I still dont fully grasp which one is comparable to the Marantz spec

 

 

cons.jpg

Edited by Andre28

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as per pete I would be going on the stated. whether 250w or 190W between brands is neither here or there.

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Posted (edited)

Comparing the power output of receivers like this is a real crap-shoot.

 

Given the ambiguities around how certain manufacturers tend to quote the power output of receivers (e.g. one channel driven, 1% THD etc) it's nigh upon impossible to know the actual output with more than two channels driven at once - unless a magazine, online review website or reputable enthusiast has bench-tested the receiver.

 

For a simple comparison, I personally would compare the following:

 

The Marantz is claimed to be 50WPC, two channels driven, 20hz to 20khz, 0.08% THD, 8 ohm load

 

The Yamaha is claimed to be 60WPC, two channels driven, 20hz to 20khz, 0.07% THD, 8 ohm load

 

10WPC is neither here nor there and is barely audible.

 

I'd wager that in real-world situations these two receivers would be neck-and-neck in the power output stakes, and the 500W max figure of the Yamaha is largely meaningless. 

Edited by pete_mac

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Cheers. The Heos is rated:

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.1% 2ch Drive) 50 W
 
Is that extra .02 or .03 of THD anything to be concerned about?
 

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There are a few good integrateds with sub out that will do everything you need in that budget and size constraint. All will sound miles better

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How do they go about processing/passing through from a source unit. This will be nearly exclusively HT and already have the speakers.

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I just run a toslink cable from TV into DAC section. Set TV sound output to PCM. Easy peasy
Sounds far better than my Denon AVR 4520 and use it for all TV, movies and majority of music listening too

Might not be the solution for you though and won't utilise the centre but I couldn't be happier.

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45 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

Cheers. The Heos is rated:

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.1% 2ch Drive) 50 W
 
Is that extra .02 or .03 of THD anything to be concerned about?
 

 

Nah, not really  - the amp would put out slightly less power at an equivalent distortion reading to the other two amps, but we are splitting hairs.

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Cheers. The HEOS is also the smallest (depth wise) so I may even end up only having that as an option anyway!

 

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I would also recommend an integrated with optical input. Anything HDMI out ->TV HDMI in -> TV optical -> integrated
 

What's your attraction of 3.1 vs 2.1? Good integrated in stereo will sound better than AVR downmixed 5.1 to 3.1 . I've tried both so that's a comment from experience. I upgraded the 3.1 to 5.1 for effects but the sound coming out the front is much better through integrated.

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Posted (edited)

So say I am running an Nvidia shield, wouldn't any dolby digital or "higher" source just be downmixed to 2.1 anyway?

Edit: I do like the "voice" coming from directly under the TV though, which is why I like 3.1 setup.

Edit 2: If I go the 2 channel route, this looks promising https://www.audiotrends.com.au/denon-dra-800h.html

Edited by Andre28

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37 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

So say I am running an Nvidia shield, wouldn't any dolby digital or "higher" source just be downmixed to 2.1 anyway?
 

Not necessarily I believe. Will stay surround/multi channel

 

37 minutes ago, Andre28 said:



Edit: I do like the "voice" coming from directly under the TV though, which is why I like 3.1 setup.

 

Very understandable but even with my bookshelves sat beside tv on tv unit voices come from all across the screen rather than a box underneath. Seems more natural to me

 

40 minutes ago, Andre28 said:


Edit 2: If I go the 2 channel route, this looks promising https://www.audiotrends.com.au/denon-dra-800h.html

If this is the option stick with the slimline AVR and have the extra channels.

 

Something like this is what I would buy if new but plenty from Nad, Rotel, Marantz etc too

https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/6056/s/cambridge-audio-cxa80-integrated-amplifier/category/235/

 

Anyways will stop trying to talk you out of it just wanted to provide an alternative. Wish you the best of luck

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Andre28 said:

So say I am running an Nvidia shield, wouldn't any dolby digital or "higher" source just be downmixed to 2.1 anyway?

Edit: I do like the "voice" coming from directly under the TV though, which is why I like 3.1 setup.

Edit 2: If I go the 2 channel route, this looks promising https://www.audiotrends.com.au/denon-dra-800h.html

Check the shield sound options. 
If you have Dolby, surround, something else that is multi channel then it will output multichannel. It will then be downmixed somewhere if it's being played through stereo output. Is it downmixed at the TV for TV speaker output? Do you have a TV or soundbar or something else that that does surround, if that's the case then it will be downmixed to 3 channel if there is no rear speakers.

If you have stereo as the sound output on your shield then it will natively get the stereo soundtrack and pass that on to the output, there will be no downmix as stereo is a separate audio track to the multi channels one.

One of the benefits of stereo is that some multi channel is compressed whilst stereo isn't. Newer multichannel is not compressed but not everything has it.

 

If you don't place your L/R speakers far enough apart then the L/C/R separation won't be great. My stereo setup makes the 'voice' seem like it's coming from the middle of the screen and that is due to speaker and couch placement.

 

When I mention integrated, around your budget, then I mean something like:

https://www.deniswhitehomecinema.com.au/audiolab-6000a-integrated-amplifier-en.html


https://www.digitalcinema.com.au/marantz-pm6006-stereo-integrated-amplifier.html

 

https://www.digitalcinema.com.au/onkyo-a-9150-stereo-integrated-amplifier-with-phono-input-airplay-bluetooth-and-wi-fi.html


https://www.melbournehifi.com.au/products/denon-pma-800ne-stereo-amplifier 


https://www.apollohifi.com.au/cambridge-audio-cxa61-integrated-stereo-amplifier.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImtC22ue86QIVilVgCh2YsQXIEAQYAiABEgIyovD_BwE (You may be able to get a special deal on the CXA60 or CXA80 as the improved 61 and 81 are out)
 

There is always the classifieds on here :)

 

If you getting a sub then be mindful of integrated amplifiers having pre out or sub out or speaker level out only. Your sub will need to accept what ever the amp can give it. Not all subs accept speaker level inputs.

Edited by gwurb

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Cheers.  I've just bought new speakers so want to go 3.1

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Posted (edited)

The centre speaker is a must for me too.

 

Coming off the back of owning pretty beefy Denon's (4520, X4000, 3808 etc) I've got a couple of the slimline Marantz's now - I had a NR1609 and liked it enough to get a NR1710 when my 4520 packed up. I think they are great. They are easy to live with as they support all the modern formats, fit nicely in my cabinet under the TV and I really like HEOS functionality.

 

In terms of sound quality - I think they are good enough for the price if you're running them for HT rather than music - I run a power amp though because I run full-size front speakers and I really like that these little Marantz have front ch pre-outs where most other things at that price point dont. Probably depends how loud you like to listen to your movies - they should handle a 3.1 setup with bookshelf speakers no problems at all - i think it'll be perfect for you.

 

Just be careful if you have any old component sources the 1710 won't convert these to HDMI from memory (where the 1609 did). 

Edited by 00madz

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Thank you that is very handy.  I'm hoping the marantz will fit as i just think its going to be closer to what I'm used to compared to the heos.  Small chance i still might end up with an entertainment unit that fits a traditional avr,  but good to know there are viable options if not. 

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Well, after all that, turns out I might be able to get a "full size" after all.
Im assuming the Denon 2600h and Marantz SR5014 will both beat the pants off any slimline? Interestingly these 2 are over 10cm less deep than the equivalent Yamaha which I probably would have otherwise gone for.

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Yeah it's going to have more power available (bigger power supply) to go louder and probably a few more connections. I wouldn't expect it would sound much different quality-wise - they are still entry level type units. Neither have the front pre-outs of the NR1710, something to keep in mind if you ever intend running a power amp / 2ch setup with HT bypass at any time.

 

I find this site really good for comparisons: https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x2600h/usa/marantz-nr1710/usa/

 

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Wow I wouldnt have considered the 2600h and the sr5014 at entry level. With rrp nearly $2k I would have thought these were mid range?

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Don't mean any offense - yes there are definitely more entry level receivers below them. My argument is they'll probably all sound much the same (within same Brand anyway). By that I mean if you look carefully at the differences (steps up) between each model - in the lower models the differences tend to be features, connections and format support - you'll get a few more watts per channel, but it's not until you reach a certain point that they start targetting more of the audiophile types and you see the selling points are in better audio circuits, DACs, gold plating, power supply circuits, advanced room correction, lower THD, better buffering/jitter handling and other "audio" type improvements that might change the sound in any noticeable way.

 

From what I remember about the Denon range you might start seeing a little bit of that in the 3xxx models and you have to get into the 4xxx models (and flagships above) for most of it. But you might be right, it might start in the 2xxx now, they keep messing around with the lineup. It doesn't really matter what you label them anyway just make sure you're clear on what your requirements are and pick the cheapest one that meets them.... that's just my opinion anyway. I feel with your situation you can get away with a bit because of your speaker setup - ie you're not expecting the receiver to power 7 speakers or floor-standers...

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Yeah fair enough. With 3 bookshelves it will probably be alright as you say. If I ever do add surround it would go through heos/wireless anyway.
Will have about 10-12cm on each side and above, with an open front and back. Apparently this should be enough even for the Marantz which i have heard can run a little warmer than others.

Edited by Andre28

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