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Roger Federer on the way out ?

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I can't help but notice that Roger is losing with increasingly regularity (compared to his ussual high standards) and made more obvious losing to Jurgen Melzer at the recent Monte Carlo open.

He is even talking himself up in press conferences. I am not sure if he is trying convince the press gallery or himself. he won last years Aussie open, but against Murray, and only after Nadal got injured against Murray in the semi.

He then lost in Qtrs of French to Soderling, qtrs Wimbl to Berdych ( a very bad loss IMO) and SF at US to Joker. got beaten easily against Joker at 2011 Aussie open.

It seems to be a combination of Nadal, Joker, Soderling and Del Potro all playing their precise power games better with more consistency. Combine that with Fed not being able to take that next step up in consistently delivering more power and precision in his game. This is bringing a lot more errors into his game - almost a complete role reversal to where Fed was 4-5 years ago.

The tour using very slow balls does not help Fed, however the way Joker and del potro like pace, it may not help him now days.

I cannot see Fed winning an gerand slam this year and see him ending ranked 4 or 5.

thoughts of other appreciated.

Edited by turntable

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No just realistic, all champions come to their end at some stage. No body should bag Federer, as he has been one of the true greats of world tennis.

Everyone should just respect his great achievements and not dig their boots in when a true champion starts their fall from the top of the mountain.

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Don't get me wrong. I luv Fed,one of my fav players of all time, however as you say - everything comes to an end and he will be 30 when the US Open is on.

Can he do a Sampras and win a grand slam when 30 or over.

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He may be lacking a bit of motivation at present Shane and it would be hard to know if he's carrying an injury or not as well. Age has got to eventually catch up with these top players, but Roger operating at only 80% of his best form, would still be good enough to keep him in the top 50 in the world. It will be interesting to see how much fire he has in his gut come the French in June and you have to still put him in the top 3 or 4 to win Wimbledon.........all depends on the draw and how his toughest opponents fair against others as they come through. I reckon he's still a good chance at Wimbledon on the grass or the US on slick hardcourt in the heat this year.

Cheers,

Keith

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Federer did well against Raffa in the semi finals of the Madrid Open recently. Took him to 3 sets. I don't think Federer has ever beaten Nadal on clay in a big tournament although I could be wrong.

Come Wimbledon and Federer is in for a chance again. I think he has the best transitional game on the tour being able to instantly recognize when he has hit a good shot and pounce on an opponent's weak reply.

When the grass courts of SW19 were faster Federer was almost certain a shoo in for the title. With the courts slowing down a bit, it seems Novak and Raffa are the ones in contention now.

But I never count Federer out until the fat lady sings...

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Federer still in the French Open after a comprehensive win over Lopez the other day.

Lets see how he goes against some true clay courters though...

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I think Federer can only counts on his chance of winning a slam at Wimbledon. While his shots are still powerful, he is a bit slow nowadays which IMO explains why he is now struggling against powerful hitters such as Soderling, Del Potro and currently Djokovic.

On the other hand he seems to catch up with Nadal even on clay. Perhaps because Nadal is on the way down too? Nadal barely survived last night against John Isner.

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I think Federer can only counts on his chance of winning a slam at Wimbledon. While his shots are still powerful, he is a bit slow nowadays which IMO explains why he is now struggling against powerful hitters such as Soderling, Del Potro and currently Djokovic.

On the other hand he seems to catch up with Nadal even on clay. Perhaps because Nadal is on the way down too? Nadal barely survived last night against John Isner.

Yeah Chu, you don't rate Federer a chance on slick hardcourt at the US Open or the Australian? Soderling and Del Potro I would agree, but they have got to be on their day; Djokovic seems to be at another level at the moment, but he is not a more powerful player than Federer, he's just in a very good place right now and very confident as far as his game is concerned.

Nadal on his way down?.........ah, he's won 5 of the last 6 six French Open finals and he is going to be awful hard to beat there. I watched his match with Isner last night and Isner played a smart match and Nadal was below his best. Nadal still got through though and the further he goes in this event, the harder he is going to be to beat. Incidentally, from memory I think Federer was Nadal's opponent in the final at least three times out of those six finals, and he did win the French only two years ago in 2009.........not a bad record by anyone's standards, but maybe not by yours Chu!:mad:

Cheers,

Keith

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He truly is one of the greats but no-one can be the best forever. His period at the top was quite long really.

Nadal seems to be less dominant too with Novak around. Maybe he will not become the dominant player he looked like he would become a couple of years ago.

DS

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Djokovic now has this self belief in him that Federer once had and Nadal still has. This shows in the rankings with Nadal on top, Djokovic rapidly closing the gap and Federer still lingering around third place.

Federer has come back from a slight lull before so there is no reason he can't claim another Slam or two before his career winds up....

He is still ranked no 3 for God's sake.

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He is still ranked no 3 for God's sake.

Exactly Victor, and 99.99% of all other professional tennis players would gladly trade their career for his.

Cheers,

Keith

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Yeah Chu, you don't rate Federer a chance on slick hardcourt at the US Open or the Australian? Soderling and Del Potro I would agree, but they have got to be on their day; Djokovic seems to be at another level at the moment, but he is not a more powerful player than Federer, he's just in a very good place right now and very confident as far as his game is concerned.

Nadal on his way down?.........ah, he's won 5 of the last 6 six French Open finals and he is going to be awful hard to beat there. I watched his match with Isner last night and Isner played a smart match and Nadal was below his best. Nadal still got through though and the further he goes in this event, the harder he is going to be to beat. Incidentally, from memory I think Federer was Nadal's opponent in the final at least three times out of those six finals, and he did win the French only two years ago in 2009.........not a bad record by anyone's standards, but maybe not by yours Chu!:mad:

Cheers,

Keith

To me, Federer is the most complete tennis player and I like watching him a lot (unlike Nadal who is a little bit boring). However, IMO he has passed his peak. I am not saying that his shots (particularly forehand) are no longer powerful, it is just that he is a little bit slower than he used to be. Thus instead of steadying himself in a good position to attack or counter attack he may be just content to get to ball back. In tennis (just like music, DAC...) timing is everything :).

I watched Nadal playing against Djokovic in two recent matches (Madrid and Rome). It appears to me that Nadal, towards the end of the Rome match, was afraid to hit into Djokovic forehand. Perhaps Djo's forehand is not stronger than Fed's but Djokovic is quicker so that he can hit his shots better. Of course during the peak of Federer everyone (including Nadal) was afraid of his forehand.

As for Federer's chance of winning further slam other than Wimbledon, I hope I'm wrong but I think his chance is small unless both Djokovic and Nadal got beaten in early rounds. Why Federer hires Paul Annacone as his coach? I guess Federer is hoping that Annacone can help him win another Wimbledon (like he did with Sampras).

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To me, Federer is the most complete tennis player and I like watching him a lot (unlike Nadal who is a little bit boring). However, IMO he has passed his peak. I am not saying that his shots (particularly forehand) are no longer powerful, it is just that he is a little bit slower than he used to be. Thus instead of steadying himself in a good position to attack or counter attack he may be just content to get to ball back. In tennis (just like music, DAC...) timing is everything :mad:.

I watched Nadal playing against Djokovic in two recent matches (Madrid and Rome). It appears to me that Nadal, towards the end of the Rome match, was afraid to hit into Djokovic forehand. Perhaps Djo's forehand is not stronger than Fed's but Djokovic is quicker so that he can hit his shots better. Of course during the peak of Federer everyone (including Nadal) was afraid of his forehand.

As for Federer's chance of winning further slam other than Wimbledon, I hope I'm wrong but I think his chance is small unless both Djokovic and Nadal got beaten in early rounds. Why Federer hires Paul Annacone as his coach? I guess Federer is hoping that Annacone can help him win another Wimbledon (like he did with Sampras).

I agree that Federer is probably the most well-rounded, complete player the game has seen. He does not have a weak shot (though he is not always prepared to be as aggressive as he could be on his backhand). However, he is playing players significantly younger than himself now, and it will be hard for him to win another Grand Slam.

I agree also that Wimbledon is his best shot, given the players that he has to beat in the game today. The only problem there seems to me to be Djokovic's serve, and also the immense power of his ground strokes. On grass, Djokovic may well be able to simply overpower Federer.

None of this changes the fact that he is the best tennis player I have ever seen (and I started playing tennis seriously and watching when Ashe, then Connors, McEnroe, and Borg were around).

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To me, Federer is the most complete tennis player and I like watching him a lot (unlike Nadal who is a little bit boring). However, IMO he has passed his peak. I am not saying that his shots (particularly forehand) are no longer powerful, it is just that he is a little bit slower than he used to be. Thus instead of steadying himself in a good position to attack or counter attack he may be just content to get to ball back. In tennis (just like music, DAC...) timing is everything :mad:.

I watched Nadal playing against Djokovic in two recent matches (Madrid and Rome). It appears to me that Nadal, towards the end of the Rome match, was afraid to hit into Djokovic forehand. Perhaps Djo's forehand is not stronger than Fed's but Djokovic is quicker so that he can hit his shots better. Of course during the peak of Federer everyone (including Nadal) was afraid of his forehand.

As for Federer's chance of winning further slam other than Wimbledon, I hope I'm wrong but I think his chance is small unless both Djokovic and Nadal got beaten in early rounds. Why Federer hires Paul Annacone as his coach? I guess Federer is hoping that Annacone can help him win another Wimbledon (like he did with Sampras).

I think you misunderstood my post Chu, I wasn't looking for a breakdown in Federer and Nadal's game, rather I think you are writing them both off too early...........anyhow, time will tell. Why did Federer hire Paul Annacone as his coach?..........sometimes lately when I watch Roger play, I often wonder that myself. What can he bring to Roger's game?......I'm not sure, but I feel he was probably more suited to work with Pete Sampras and his game than with Roger, but without being there day in and day out, I certainly can't tell. I'm sure Annacone is a very astute and knowledgeable coach and he himself had a fair amount of success with limited tools when he was a touring player. Given all that, I don't think he is necessarily the best coach Federer could have, if another Wimbledon is all he wants.

Cheers,

Keith

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Tony Roche comes to mind of Federer's past coaches...

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I think you misunderstood my post Chu, I wasn't looking for a breakdown in Federer and Nadal's game, rather I think you are writing them both off too early...........anyhow, time will tell. Why did Federer hire Paul Annacone as his coach?..........sometimes lately when I watch Roger play, I often wonder that myself. What can he bring to Roger's game?......I'm not sure, but I feel he was probably more suited to work with Pete Sampras and his game than with Roger, but without being there day in and day out, I certainly can't tell. I'm sure Annacone is a very astute and knowledgeable coach and he himself had a fair amount of success with limited tools when he was a touring player. Given all that, I don't think he is necessarily the best coach Federer could have, if another Wimbledon is all he wants.

Cheers,

Keith

Sorry Keith for dwelling unnecessarily into a breakdown in Federer and Nadal's game. However while I think Federer has limited chance for further slams (apart from Wimbledon), I certainly do not write Nadal off. It is just my feeling that he is a tad slower, probably because of his recent injury. Perhaps that is why he struggled to beat Isner. And Nadal cannot beat Djokovic if not fully fit. I agree with you that Federer can choose a better coach. I maybe bias but Federer could have chosen Darren Cahill instead. While Cahill was not a top player he was there to help Hewitt win his US and Wimbledon. I believe Cahill was also helping Agassi winning his French crown too.

IMO Federer is the best player I've seen. If he played double-handed backhand he could have overcome Nadal's heavy-spun forehand and thus could have won more titles. However, this would deprive us to watch one of the most beautiful backhand shots.

Chu

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Sorry Keith for dwelling unnecessarily into a breakdown in Federer and Nadal's game. However while I think Federer has limited chance for further slams (apart from Wimbledon), I certainly do not write Nadal off. It is just my feeling that he is a tad slower, probably because of his recent injury. Perhaps that is why he struggled to beat Isner. And Nadal cannot beat Djokovic if not fully fit. I agree with you that Federer can choose a better coach. I maybe bias but Federer could have chosen Darren Cahill instead. While Cahill was not a top player he was there to help Hewitt win his US and Wimbledon. I believe Cahill was also helping Agassi winning his French crown too.

IMO Federer is the best player I've seen. If he played double-handed backhand he could have overcome Nadal's heavy-spun forehand and thus could have won more titles. However, this would deprive us to watch one of the most beautiful backhand shots.

Chu

Not sure that he needed a double-handed backhand. Rather, he needs to put more work and be more confident with his top-spin backhand, rather than slicing so much of the time, which is safe, but not usually aggressive.

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Sorry Keith for dwelling unnecessarily into a breakdown in Federer and Nadal's game. However while I think Federer has limited chance for further slams (apart from Wimbledon), I certainly do not write Nadal off. It is just my feeling that he is a tad slower, probably because of his recent injury. Perhaps that is why he struggled to beat Isner. And Nadal cannot beat Djokovic if not fully fit. I agree with you that Federer can choose a better coach. I maybe bias but Federer could have chosen Darren Cahill instead. While Cahill was not a top player he was there to help Hewitt win his US and Wimbledon. I believe Cahill was also helping Agassi winning his French crown too.

IMO Federer is the best player I've seen. If he played double-handed backhand he could have overcome Nadal's heavy-spun forehand and thus could have won more titles. However, this would deprive us to watch one of the most beautiful backhand shots.

Chu

No need to apologise Chu, I agree with most of what you are saying, just don't write these blokes off too soon. Ah, Darren Cahill reached around 20 in the world in singles and I think the top 10 in doubles before he retired prematurely due to injury..........knee or ankle? In my book that is a top player!!.............agreed, I think he would have been a way better choice than Annacone.

Cheers,

Keith

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Top players don't necessarily make great coaches...

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Top players don't necessarily make great coaches...

If you're referring to Cahill Victor, I agree but I highlighted his career rankings because Chu had stated he wasn't a top player..........which he clearly was, by any definition.

Cheers,

Keith

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No I wasn't insinuating Cahill. I think he was a top notch coach behind two great champions. Our Leyton Hewitt and the legendary Andre Agassi.

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Perhaps some in the pack have equaled and maybe one or two surpassed Federer in the last two years but he is without doubt the most complete tennis player I have known. I am looking forward perhaps with too much optimism to a late career renaissance.

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He's badoozled......getting too old.

We know how it goes.................

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The trouble I see with Federer is that he refuses to change his game. Not that there is much to change, but he has a clear losing record against Nadal and to me I have not seen any change in Roger's game to combat Nadal's phyisicality advantage, except for going for more forehand winners without ever bending his knees. Federer when he was young was a serve volleyer and beat Sampras doing that. He rarely if at all serve volleys or comes to the net.

Joker has almost transformed his game. Changed his serve and forehand. He also completely changed his diet as he says he found out he was allergic to gluten. That is pretty brave move and it has paid off. Nadal is also now a more complete player and comes to the net more than Federer now -wtf?

I still hope Fed can one another major, however unless Joker and Nadal lose early, I am not confident.

Cheers

Edited by turntable

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Not sure that he needed a double-handed backhand. Rather, he needs to put more work and be more confident with his top-spin backhand, rather than slicing so much of the time, which is safe, but not usually aggressive.

Federer likes to hit the ball on the rise, and he does that so well with both his forehand and backhand. The only exception IMO is when confronting Nadal's top-spin forehands which jump so high and so fast into his backhand. In this case Federer has to stay back most of the times and defend rather than attack. He has no such problem with other left-handers. I agree that if he is more confident and more aggressive on that side he will have better chance to beat Nadal. This was how he played (and won) at last year's Masters' final. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to maintain that level this year. And time does not wait for anyone.:mad:

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