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Can Integrated Amp be used as Preamp


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hi all,

 

i am upgrading my tube integrated amp (Primaluna Prologue One) to Primaluna Evo 400 integrated amp. 

 

I am wondering if PL Evo 400 Integrated amp can be used as Pre Amp, and add Evo 400 Poweramp in the future?  ( there is no Pre out at the integrated amp so i guess not?)

 

many thanks

 

Eric

 

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36 minutes ago, stereo coffee said:

Hi Eric

Image shows the EVO 400 rear panel, there is a tape out RCA pair, that could be used with a subsequent attenuator , then onward to a power amp 

EVO+400-1+Rear.jpg

Thank you very much for your reply Chris. i will give it a try. Given the tape out is before the amplifier's volume control can it be controlled?

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40 minutes ago, thejt said:

Check the sub out function. It's unlikely that it passes out only low frequencies.

Thank you very much for your comment thejt. I will check them out. cheers.

 

Eric

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3 hours ago, Ericsoh said:

Thank you very much for your reply Chris. i will give it a try. Given the tape out is before the amplifier's volume control can it be controlled?

Yes, you will need to use a passive attenuator , after the tape out sockets and before your power amplifier.

 

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9 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Yes, you will need to use a passive attenuator , after the tape out sockets and before your power amplifier.

 

Many thanks Chris. i found Rothwell RCA audio attenduators which comes in 10dB, 15dB, and 20dB, i think i will need to check the output to match?

Rothwell Attenuators.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Ericsoh said:

Many thanks Chris. i found Rothwell RCA audio attenduators which comes in 10dB, 15dB, and 20dB, i think i will need to check the output to match?

Rothwell Attenuators.jpg

Hi Eric

The Rothwell attenuators are fixed level types as you point out, rather you will need a variable attenuator to then work as a volume control , as the tape out is at fixed line level, as far as I know.  Most tape outputs will deliver 200mv, Prima Luna might be able to give you the tape out specifications.  You would arrange a RCA output from tape out to a good quality attenuator, then onward to your power amp,  like this:  

 

 

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1 hour ago, stereo coffee said:

Hi Eric

The Rothwell attenuators are fixed level types as you point out, rather you will need a variable attenuator to then work as a volume control , as the tape out is at fixed line level, as far as I know.  Most tape outputs will deliver 200mv, Prima Luna might be able to give you the tape out specifications.  You would arrange a RCA output from tape out to a good quality attenuator, then onward to your power amp,  like this:  

 

 

here you go!! i am so glad to have your guidance in this. I am going through the link you have provided. Certainly will come back to you to build one for my near future upgrade. so i think your SC LDR could be the solution?

shelter3.jpg.cd9e499b3bedc78767c792597814c3ee.jpg

Edited by Ericsoh
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16 hours ago, Ericsoh said:

I am wondering if PL Evo 400 Integrated amp can be used as Pre Amp,

 

11 hours ago, stereo coffee said:

Yes, you will need to use a passive attenuator , after the tape out sockets and before your power amplifier.

 

so not really as a key primary requirement of a preamp is to provide volume control

 

15 hours ago, thejt said:

Check the sub out function. It's unlikely that it passes out only low frequencies.

if this output is managed by the volume control, it would work.

 

mike

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8 minutes ago, almikel said:

 

so not really as a key primary requirement of a preamp is to provide volume control

 

if this output is managed by the volume control, it would work.

 

mike

hi Mike, thank you very much for your comments. I think this output is likely a fixed line output but i will find out. if it is managed by the volume control then would be much straight forward. otherwise will have to use a passive attenuator with volume control with it. 

 

cheers.

 

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34 minutes ago, Ericsoh said:

hi Mike, thank you very much for your comments. I think this output is likely a fixed line output but i will find out. if it is managed by the volume control then would be much straight forward. otherwise will have to use a passive attenuator with volume control with it. 

 

cheers.

 

Many subs are run using the pre out signal. I'd imagine that this is the same and so would then also give volume control

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18 minutes ago, thejt said:

Many subs are run using the pre out signal. I'd imagine that this is the same and so would then also give volume control

thanks mate. This integrated amp doesn't come with Pre-out, i hope the "Tape Out" will do the job. i will check it out. cheers.

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1 hour ago, Ericsoh said:

hi Mike, thank you very much for your comments. I think this output is likely a fixed line output but i will find out. if it is managed by the volume control then would be much straight forward. otherwise will have to use a passive attenuator with volume control with it. 

 

cheers.

 

if it's fixed then get another pre-amp - it's a complete waste of time having a passive attenuator after the pre-amp managing volume - pre-amps manage volume - it's their primary requirement (with switching between inputs their only other requirement)

 

Mike

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18 minutes ago, Ericsoh said:

thanks mate. This integrated amp doesn't come with Pre-out, i hope the "Tape Out" will do the job. i will check it out. cheers.

Sorry I meant that the sub out is functionally the same as a pre out most likely

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the sub out is likely variable and could be used as a pre out...

 

though a few things I don't understand.....

 

why on earth use only as a pre amp ? all the time you will have power tubes on the integrated just chewing up their life ? this is costly ! be cheaper over time to sell this and get the PL pre amp ! :) won't be that much in change over ? 

 

also is the PL integrated safe to run with no speakers attached ? not all valve integrated like this ? in fact some are best not even switched on without some speakers attached :)

 

if need a pre amp, id get the pre amp, am sure will have no bother turning this over...to fund the pre ...

 

 

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thanks all. yea if it gone too far, i might be better just hang on with my evo 400 integrated until i have accumulated sufficient fund for the upgrade with pre/ power setup. cheers.

 

 

 

 

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On 26/04/2020 at 4:27 PM, betty boop said:

the sub out is likely variable and could be used as a pre out...

 

though a few things I don't understand.....

 

why on earth use only as a pre amp ? all the time you will have power tubes on the integrated just chewing up their life ? this is costly ! be cheaper over time to sell this and get the PL pre amp ! :) won't be that much in change over ? 

 

also is the PL integrated safe to run with no speakers attached ? not all valve integrated like this ? in fact some are best not even switched on without some speakers attached :)

 

if need a pre amp, id get the pre amp, am sure will have no bother turning this over...to fund the pre ...

 

 

hi Betty , i think you are right, the SUB OUT (stereo) is effectively a pre out (this have been mentinoed in the review article for Evo 400 integrated (in primaluna.files.wordpress.com).

 

just that it would be good to know if it can be used as pre amp to allow future upgrade without getting the new premap. But i see your point above and it makes perfect sense to go for pure pre amp rather turning this around. 

 

thanks again.

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On 26/04/2020 at 6:27 PM, betty boop said:

why on earth use only as a pre amp ? all the time you will have power tubes on the integrated just chewing up their life ? this is costly ! be cheaper over time to sell this and get the PL pre amp ! :) won't be that much in change over ? 

 

also is the PL integrated safe to run with no speakers attached ? not all valve integrated like this ? in fact some are best not even switched on without some speakers attached :)

 

 

Some people, bb, unfortunately have no analysis capability.  :(

 

Andy

 

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The  point of having a preamp instead of integrated amp is to avoid the signal interference from the power amp section (a huge transformer). 

 

So unless you can cut off the power amp section from your integrated amp, it would defeat the purpose of having a separate preamp. 

 

Also the class AB integrated amp will be in a "constant on" state that consumes power all the time. 

 

The only scenario i can think of is you want to save money on purchasing  a preamp.

 

 

 

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