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RME ADI-2 DAC FS - updated V2 (2019) version


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43 minutes ago, elisix_ said:

No doubt. It's an amazing unit on it's own, only bettered by adding an external amp.

I am using it only as a DAC feeding my McIntosh C46 preamp then goes to Mcintosh MC452 ?

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Here’s mine sounding very good.Using it as a dac only with all features switch off on a 2 channel set up.

Sounds very clean,crisp and I find bass is more articulate on se output than xlr in my system anyway.YMMV.

Just a heads up it will be listed on classified soon.

 

05C172F0-81B2-4EC4-BC31-F046A20B20F0.jpeg

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On 07/06/2020 at 12:43 PM, sir sanders zingmore said:

I know right.

If I had the cash I'd buy one just for that feature alone

I bought one of these a few days ago.

wow  its really a nice unit,  it blows my m-dac plus away.

the only thing is you need a degree just to use the menu hah kidding,

 

i recommend the dac. its hrmmmmmmmm superb.

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11 hours ago, terrys999 said:

I bought one of these a few days ago.

wow  its really a nice unit,  it blows my m-dac plus away.

the only thing is you need a degree just to use the menu hah kidding,

 

i recommend the dac. its hrmmmmmmmm superb.

Interesting.. Do you mainly use it on headphones or speakers?

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I use it for hifi.

xlr to amp.

fantastic kit.

the latest ones have been upgraded to an higher spec chip.

 

i thought my mdac plus was good, but this is another league .

my mate did a comparison with the chord Qutest

he preferred the adi 2 dac fs.

Edited by terrys999
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1 hour ago, terrys999 said:

I use it for hifi.

xlr to amp.

fantastic kit.

the latest ones have been upgraded to an higher spec chip.

 

i thought my mdac plus was good, but this is another league .

my mate did a comparison with the chord Qutest

he preferred the adi 2 dac fs.

@peppy

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2 hours ago, peppy said:

Dont do that to me @elisix_ ?

Dont make me keep it & cancel sale

 

Ha. Hooo don’t sell. 

This dac is the end game for me.

i think after a while you have to put the brakes on,  I got into the habit of upgrading to find perfection.   It doesn’t exist.

 

i wouldn’t sell mine ever.  This is for keeps

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I had one not long ago and honestly didn't find anything "special" about it. It's a great dac yes it is but it doesn't give you that special tingly feeling. I've moved it on since then and found my ideal dac that gives me that orgasmic feeling. Lol. 

 

 

 

20200530_120008.jpg

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10 hours ago, terrys999 said:

i wouldn’t sell mine ever.  This is for keeps

Famous last words often heard on SNA :D 

3 hours ago, tntman said:

I had one not long ago and honestly didn't find anything "special" about it. It's a great dac yes it is but it doesn't give you that special tingly feeling. I've moved it on since then and found my ideal dac that gives me that orgasmic feeling. Lol. 

Do tell.. What did you move on to ? :popcorn:

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5 hours ago, tntman said:

I had one not long ago and honestly didn't find anything "special" about it. It's a great dac yes it is but it doesn't give you that special tingly feeling. I've moved it on since then and found my ideal dac that gives me that orgasmic feeling. Lol. 

 

 

 

20200530_120008.jpg

I'd like to know what it is you think gave you that feeling. What did you buy?

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Hey guys, 

 

To me it was just a normal regular dac, great for studio use but in terms of hifi, it's nothing special.  I since moved on to my Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3. This DAC uses tubes and I purchased it with ESS9039 Pro.  With the right combo of tubes, it brings out a truly magical experience that bests DACs 5x it's cost. In my previous Hifi journey, my fav DAC that I've owned was the Hugo TT and a host of others :)

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7 minutes ago, tntman said:

Hey guys, 

 

To me it was just a normal regular dac, great for studio use but in terms of hifi, it's nothing special.  I since moved on to my Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3. This DAC uses tubes and I purchased it with ESS9039 Pro.  With the right combo of tubes, it brings out a truly magical experience that bests DACs 5x it's cost. In my previous Hifi journey, my fav DAC that I've owned was the Hugo TT and a host of others :)

I love that post (honestly).

 

@tntman has a DAC that he really enjoys. I haven't measured and haven't seen measurements for MP-D2 but as it has tubes I would guess it has some distortion. The right amount and type of distortion can sound good. 
 

A 'clean' DAC that measures well and is accurate is great for studio work. Some people also like the accuracy in their music. I really enjoy accuracy. 
 

None the less, I totally get how something that is not 'clean' is really music to the ears all puns intended. I am now curious what MP-D2 (sounds like a Star Wars droid) sounds like :) although I am more curious about the AK version.

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Got the v.1 & run mine in dsd direct mode, from Jussi’s HQP & always to dsf256 upsampling.

 

Here’s a jumble collation of Jussi’s remarks (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/page/714/?tab=comments#comment-1064258) - he independently measured it, as he does with all his dacs used for testing HQP.

 

RME adi-2 dac

 

“If you run it at >= 352.8 it bypasses the digital filter stage and runs only S/H, like many other SDM DAC chips. It is still oversampling, but not through digital filter anymore, so it just copies same sample N times. You cannot really run an SDM DAC at PCM rates because the rate would be too low for the modulator to do it's job. So "NOS" in context of SDM DAC with PCM input usually means "no digital filter".

 

Then it has switched capacitor analog filter in the output as a D/A conversion stage to produce voltage output. In this respect is is similar to Cirrus Logic chips.

 

In DSD Direct mode, it sends DSD inputs straight to the switched capacitor filter, which can be configured for two different cut-off points. If it is not in DSD Direct mode, then there is quite a bit of extra DSP going on. TEAC runs the chip in DSD Direct mode always since they have analog volume control. RME has configuration option to switch one of the two DAC chips into DSD Direct mode and consequently volume control is gone (and corresponding headphone output is muted). The other DAC chip is never in DSD Direct mode and thus the other headphone output is active and has volume control.”

 

 

“We are talking about different thing here... None of the ESS models have DSD Direct -type support. TI/BB chips do that always, while some Cirrus Logic chips have "Direct DSD" mode to do the same. DSD Direct is a mode in AKM DAC chips that passes DSD data straight to the D/A conversion section without DSP processing. On RME ADI-2 this is switchable with implication that volume control disappears and output level becomes fixed at -3.5 dB level (and for safety reasons corresponding headphone output is muted). On TEAC UD-503/NT-503 the DSD Direct mode is always enabled and volume control is available since it is implemented separately in analog domain.

 

Direct SDM in HQPlayer is similar functionality, but earlier stage.

 

I would put TI/BB chips in the "warm" category, AKM in the middle and ESS&CirrusLogic to "cold" category. But when you can run chips in direct mode, the difference becomes smaller.”

 

 

“RME has just one type of DAC inside, AKM's DAC chip that is SDM converter. So it cannot be really compared in PCM/DSD sense to Holo Spring or Denafrips. Switching between PCM and DSD inputs to it you are comparing it's built in on-chip modulators to my modulators. Only DSD inputs with DSD Direct mode enabled allow plain conversion without extra DSP performed inside. Since DSD Direct bypasses the volume control, the headphone outputs that are connected to the chip operating in DSD Direct mode are muted.

 

With ADI-2 it is important to check that the DSD Direct is enabled. If you are using 7th order modulator in HQPlayer, you could try setting the DSD filter in ADI-2 to 50 kHz. Alternatively you can try 5th order modulator in HQPlayer with ADI-2 filter set to either 50 or 150 kHz. Also choice of the HQPlayer filter plays important role. With these comparisons you may find the character you are looking for. Another thing to pay attention to is selection of reference level in ADI-2 to avoid clipping in preamp on loud peaks, for my preamp +13 dBu is suitable.”

 

13134 posts

#13610

Posted April 24

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- When upressing PCM to DSD in HQ Player, is there an audible difference between running the ADI-2 DSD Direct and normally (really this question is about using the RME as a pre instead of the Freya).

 

You need to listen yourself, but it is kind of counterproductive to send DSD there when it is not in DSD Direct mode. You should then send 768k PCM instead.

 

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- What DAC bit level should I set for this DAC?

 

Default is fine, which means 32-bit in this case. Note that this has effect only when sending PCM output from HQPlayer.

 

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- I know that @Miska, you run an RME, any other pointers for acheiving a happy relationship between the RME and HQ Player?

 

Nothing special, either use DSD Direct mode + DSD256 output from HQPlayer. You can use either ASDM5 or ASDM7 modulator. With ASDM7 I recommend to set DSD Filter to 50 kHz, with ASDM5 you can select either 50 or 150 kHz. This is just recommendation.

 

I also recommend to pay attention on selecting suitable output reference level. I'm using +13 dBu

 

4/24/2019 at 6:28 AM, Yvienasaid:

If using the DSD5/DSD7+256fs modulator what dsd filter do you recommend then 50 or 150kHz?

 

“Fifth order modulators have less aggressive noise slope, so either one is good. With seventh order modulators noise slope is more aggressive, so 50 kHz filter begins to cut into it earlier.

 

You can also use 150 kHz filter with seventh order modulators, but then there is a bit more ultrasonic noise left-over. Roughly speaking, 150 kHz filter setting with fifth-order modulator has about the same amount of ultrasonic noise left as seventh order modulator with 50 kHz filter setting.

 

This setting is available in both ADI-2 and TEAC UD-503/NT-503.”

 

It has AK4490DAC chips. That's 768k PCM and DSD256. The device is always DoP, so the PCM and DSD rates match. USB interface is RME's own FPGA implementation.

 

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On 01/07/2020 at 6:32 AM, jamesg11 said:

Got the v.1 & run mine in dsd direct mode, from Jussi’s HQP & always to dsf256 upsampling.

 

Here’s a jumble collation of Jussi’s remarks (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/page/714/?tab=comments#comment-1064258) - he independently measured it, as he does with all his dacs used for testing HQP.

 

RME adi-2 dac

 

“If you run it at >= 352.8 it bypasses the digital filter stage and runs only S/H, like many other SDM DAC chips. It is still oversampling, but not through digital filter anymore, so it just copies same sample N times. You cannot really run an SDM DAC at PCM rates because the rate would be too low for the modulator to do it's job. So "NOS" in context of SDM DAC with PCM input usually means "no digital filter".

 

Then it has switched capacitor analog filter in the output as a D/A conversion stage to produce voltage output. In this respect is is similar to Cirrus Logic chips.

 

In DSD Direct mode, it sends DSD inputs straight to the switched capacitor filter, which can be configured for two different cut-off points. If it is not in DSD Direct mode, then there is quite a bit of extra DSP going on. TEAC runs the chip in DSD Direct mode always since they have analog volume control. RME has configuration option to switch one of the two DAC chips into DSD Direct mode and consequently volume control is gone (and corresponding headphone output is muted). The other DAC chip is never in DSD Direct mode and thus the other headphone output is active and has volume control.”

 

 

“We are talking about different thing here... None of the ESS models have DSD Direct -type support. TI/BB chips do that always, while some Cirrus Logic chips have "Direct DSD" mode to do the same. DSD Direct is a mode in AKM DAC chips that passes DSD data straight to the D/A conversion section without DSP processing. On RME ADI-2 this is switchable with implication that volume control disappears and output level becomes fixed at -3.5 dB level (and for safety reasons corresponding headphone output is muted). On TEAC UD-503/NT-503 the DSD Direct mode is always enabled and volume control is available since it is implemented separately in analog domain.

 

Direct SDM in HQPlayer is similar functionality, but earlier stage.

 

I would put TI/BB chips in the "warm" category, AKM in the middle and ESS&CirrusLogic to "cold" category. But when you can run chips in direct mode, the difference becomes smaller.”

 

 

“RME has just one type of DAC inside, AKM's DAC chip that is SDM converter. So it cannot be really compared in PCM/DSD sense to Holo Spring or Denafrips. Switching between PCM and DSD inputs to it you are comparing it's built in on-chip modulators to my modulators. Only DSD inputs with DSD Direct mode enabled allow plain conversion without extra DSP performed inside. Since DSD Direct bypasses the volume control, the headphone outputs that are connected to the chip operating in DSD Direct mode are muted.

 

With ADI-2 it is important to check that the DSD Direct is enabled. If you are using 7th order modulator in HQPlayer, you could try setting the DSD filter in ADI-2 to 50 kHz. Alternatively you can try 5th order modulator in HQPlayer with ADI-2 filter set to either 50 or 150 kHz. Also choice of the HQPlayer filter plays important role. With these comparisons you may find the character you are looking for. Another thing to pay attention to is selection of reference level in ADI-2 to avoid clipping in preamp on loud peaks, for my preamp +13 dBu is suitable.”

 

13134 posts

#13610

Posted April 24

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- When upressing PCM to DSD in HQ Player, is there an audible difference between running the ADI-2 DSD Direct and normally (really this question is about using the RME as a pre instead of the Freya).

 

You need to listen yourself, but it is kind of counterproductive to send DSD there when it is not in DSD Direct mode. You should then send 768k PCM instead.

 

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- What DAC bit level should I set for this DAC?

 

Default is fine, which means 32-bit in this case. Note that this has effect only when sending PCM output from HQPlayer.

 

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:27 AM, JTSsaid:

- I know that @Miska, you run an RME, any other pointers for acheiving a happy relationship between the RME and HQ Player?

 

Nothing special, either use DSD Direct mode + DSD256 output from HQPlayer. You can use either ASDM5 or ASDM7 modulator. With ASDM7 I recommend to set DSD Filter to 50 kHz, with ASDM5 you can select either 50 or 150 kHz. This is just recommendation.

 

I also recommend to pay attention on selecting suitable output reference level. I'm using +13 dBu

 

4/24/2019 at 6:28 AM, Yvienasaid:

If using the DSD5/DSD7+256fs modulator what dsd filter do you recommend then 50 or 150kHz?

 

“Fifth order modulators have less aggressive noise slope, so either one is good. With seventh order modulators noise slope is more aggressive, so 50 kHz filter begins to cut into it earlier.

 

You can also use 150 kHz filter with seventh order modulators, but then there is a bit more ultrasonic noise left-over. Roughly speaking, 150 kHz filter setting with fifth-order modulator has about the same amount of ultrasonic noise left as seventh order modulator with 50 kHz filter setting.

 

This setting is available in both ADI-2 and TEAC UD-503/NT-503.”

 

It has AK4490DAC chips. That's 768k PCM and DSD256. The device is always DoP, so the PCM and DSD rates match. USB interface is RME's own FPGA implementation.

 

I really wish I understand even a tiny bit of that...

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RME sounds clean, clear and just on the right side (as in not), analytical. 

 

Pair it with something warmer, tubes or a SS amp that leans warm and it's right down the middle neutral.

 

Edited by elisix_
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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,, 

Posted this on the Topping D90 thread also in case there are others not reviewing that.

 

I have recently put my hard earned down on a  NAD C658 as a natural upgrade to my Node2i.  I have my Node2i connected directly to my power amp and love sound and the simplicity but there is a discernable noise floor introduced this way. The NAD provides balanced outs and a dedicated Pre (rather than just digital volume on the Node) so this should take care of the noise floor issue. I am also planning on moving to active speakers, as an ATC fanboy balanced outs will be required when that happens.

 

So all well and good on the upgrade until I came across the RME ADI 2 and Denafrips (Ares II or Pontus).

 

I am sure many have been through the same conundrum. I could keep the Node2i as a streamer and add the RME or Ares. There have been a lot of discussion on how happy owners are with the performance of these DAC's but very little on the performance of them as a Pre. 

Keeping the Node gives me versatility but the NAD is such a great allrounder in the one box. Can anyone provide some input on what I would be losing on balance (if anything) on staying with the NAD as a single box solution (Streamer/Dac/Pre) or going for a 2 box solution (Streamer + DAC/Pre)? 

 

There doesn't seem to be any comparisons I can find on the DAC performance between the C658 and the RME??? Ultimately the change over price will be in the ballpark for either solution. Any / all thoughts welcome. 

 

Regards

Crannie

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