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davidg2152

Rear effect in ceiling speaker placement

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Just after some advice.

I have 4 x Yamaha in ceiling speakers to put in. They will all be for rear effects. I am after some advice as too the optimum placement position.

They have directional tweaters so can be tweaked somewhat.

I was considering two about half a metre behind and directly above seating position, with other two about half a metre in front, off to sides with tweaters pointed back to listening position.

They will only be used in 7.1 for movies in an attempt to get an enveloping sound.

Considering ditching centre speaker and eventually upgrading sub and floorstands for more focused 2 channel longer term.

Amp is Denon 4308.

Cheers

Dave.

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Not knowing how big your room is, I'd go for about 500mm from the cornice in either case and pointing the tweeter at the listening position.

What size are these anyway?

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You cant wall mount them?

I've got in ceiling in our living room.....only just got my receiver back a couple of days ago, so have had limited testing, but I am pretty happy with it.....in saying that I reckon in wall would be better (I cant do that in our room).

We've got our directly above and a little behind the listener, as I said works pretty well....but then they're good speakers with good off axis response (an old pair of Rogers):

RearsOff.jpg

RearsOn.jpg

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In a nut shell, with 5.1 / 7.1 your trying to create the illusion of movement through sound. With 7.1, because you have the side fills to help the sound transition realistically, the further back you can position your rears, the deeper the soundfield created.

Imagine a 6m room & your sat 4m back from the screen & you have your rears as far back as they can go ie approx 2m back from the seating position.

Movie shows a helicopter flying out of the screen & your speakers convey the movement through sound. In that scenario, the sound will finish well past you & the helicopter will sound like it flew right overhead & into the distance. If your rears are positioned too close to the seating position then the movement is stunted.

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Hello, you many not like this idea at first, but a way to create more space, envelopment and a larger sweetspot would be to mount them as said earlier 500mm in but to angle the tweeter into the wall so you will receive the reflected sound (pretend there is a mirror on the wall). only do this if you are limited with space. this will work with both surround and rear.

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Hello, you many not like this idea at first, but a way to create more space, envelopment and a larger sweetspot would be to mount them as said earlier 500mm in but to angle the tweeter into the wall so you will receive the reflected sound (pretend there is a mirror on the wall). only do this if you are limited with space. this will work with both surround and rear.

That's not a bad idea..........never tried it though.

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I watched undersiege 2 this afternoon, was quite happy with the rear effects

Edit: just watched a martial arts movie too - envelopment is superb, I'm very happy with the outcome.

.....I suppose point is, if the speaker is good, it'll allow some flexibility in placement, if not it'll localise too easily and you'll need to be very careful where you place them

Edited by Elill

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Thanks for the input.

The speakers are these;

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/inwall-inceiling-speakers/ns-ic800/?mode=model

I got them on special from Eastwood HiFi. They have adjustable tweaters and a high power handling at 140WRMS.

As I have to frame the room first I am lucky enough to be able to put the speakers anywhere.

The room is 6.5m wide and 5.5m long.

Having said this the far right hand corner has a fire place and flu so that is a no go zone. I could however mount two in the walls and the other two directly at the back of the room behind the seated position? I really just wanted them all in the ceiling to keep things neat and simple. Ha! Simple! As if! It's gyprocking 101 at my joint shortly.. that's after I learn how to put the last window in (sliders went in with some nice hammer work!)

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Hello, you many not like this idea at first, but a way to create more space, envelopment and a larger sweetspot would be to mount them as said earlier 500mm in but to angle the tweeter into the wall so you will receive the reflected sound (pretend there is a mirror on the wall). only do this if you are limited with space. this will work with both surround and rear.

I am not too limited on space as the whole roof is open at the moment for wiring. I am open to any suggestions though.

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What'd they set you back? I am looking for one more pair of rears for our place......actually, not just looked at them, wont work me me

I have watched 4 movies now and played the xbox for about 16 hours (it rained all weekend) and I am thrilled with the rear effects with the ceiling mount....not sure how it'd work for 4 rears, but I guess you've got the space to do it. I'd go:

- in line with seating, 1m wider; and

- in line with head, 0.5-1m back.....tweeters pointing as appropriate

I am not sure the typical angles would appy for placement in a ceiling mount instant:

dolby-truehd-dts-hd-speaker-setup-400x300.jpg

Did you ask Eastwood Hifi?....typical, they sell you something for a pretty specific task and they dont tell you how to install them....

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Using the ceiling is a last resort when nothing else is possible. I understand the appeal, but it's certainly a compromise. Ideally the side speakers should be a little above ear height (2ft or more). THX recommendations:

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

It should not be too difficult to put them in the walls. I would still build a box and have the baffle cover the hole in the plaster.

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I am not too limited on space as the whole roof is open at the moment for wiring. I am open to any suggestions though.

Is it a closed or open woofer?

If the ceiling is open, you have the chance to box them in using the rafters.

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I got them for $299 from $499.

I think (??) it is open woofer? The woofer is mounted on an aluminium frame which is vented.

The walls are double brick and cavity so I was considering the wall mount. Would simply (there it is again!) have to knock (belt) out the 1st layer of bricks and build the box between the outer cavity and newly sheeted wall.

In any event if I go on the walls the speakers will be at least 2.5m from the ideal seated position. I assume after reading this that may be better, that is to create a greater sound field.

Have to also comment on some of the prices wall speakers cost. Skies the limit, these Yamaha's just seemed a better quality than the Jensen kit (JB).

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David,

I see no reason you can't simply use these ceiling speakers in the walls. Simply?! Well not quite that simple. The simplest way would be:

1. cut opening in brickwork (inside skin)

2. cut baffle to cover that hole (larger) - seal up to the bricks or plaster (you are putting plaster over the bricks right?)

3. install the speakers in the baffle just as you would with ceiling speakers (nothing new to buy)

The downside is that sound insulation will suffer. A further step is to build a sealed box that will sit in the wall cavity, that will get around that problem.

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Paul, I'm on it. I am now taking this as a challenge. I took your advice and ordered all my wiring via Selby and Chrome Audio (thanks for that).

Simple / Simply is my new love / hate word. The stacker sliding door on the weekend was "simply" meant to drop into place....... FAIL. Three hours of brick dust and swearing and it was a simple installation.

Now just LED light install, all wiring, ceiling, insulation, wall framing, wall insulation, sheeting, pointing, floor, walk dog, mind kids, make boxes.

Bit precious this week, need to pump up!

Out of interest what is the main advantage of boxing the speaker? Also with a small cavity to work in does the size of the box dramatically effect the sound? I.e. too small vs too big?

Edited by davidg2152

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backroomsteronet.jpg

stereonet2.jpg

Just an update. Removed all the windows and fitted double galzed. I framed the back room and used "Kooltherm" 40mm sheets to line the walls. Have added cat 6 ethernet, HDMI and 4 x roof speakers plus wiring for 2 more in the walls if required at a later stage.

I have a 65" gap to recess any new TV I add once done. Plan is to have 4 port ethernet at rear of TV and link everything up through router upstairs. It has taken a while and done all myself but between work and kids I am also restoring an old car.

Anyway just for interests sake.

Cheers

Dave

Edited by davidg2152

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I suppose you're going to take on a mistress in all that spare time, Dave?

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Ha, nice one. I'll take 5 on the lounge by myself for a snooze....... Just realised this has taken over a year! Wow I am slow! And a whinger.

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Bah!

I've been going on this joint for 25 years and still haven't got around to my dungeon!

edit - Where's the pics of the rear area that this thread started on?

Edited by LogicprObe

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OK update. Nearly there. A couple of build pics and how it is at the moment with the speakers in mocked up pozzi. I really want to move the floorstands outside the subs as the 65" TV may be obscured a little on the left hand side by the 683. I am not sure as I have not picked the TV up yet.

HT6_zps22e223e0.jpg

ht5_zps89aae787.jpg

HT4_zpsff58013f.jpg

HT3_zps93a9afff.jpg

HTnumber2_zps2b7523df.jpg

HTnumber1_zpsf14474ce.jpg

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Wow this has ended up very nice well done.

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Wow this has ended up very nice well done.

hope it hasn't ended yet. not much to watch on telly....

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Well considering the crap that's on tv the wall is probably more entertaining.

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Looks great!

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I've missed something.  Had forgotten to add final images but now can't add photobucket pics?

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