Couj Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I currently System is as follows: speakers: B&W 803 D3s pre amp: stereo knight enigma (tube pre amp) dac: PS Audio Direct Stream Junior Power Amps 2 x Stereo Knight M100 monoblocks i absolutely love the mids and highs in my system but, for some time now, I’ve been challenged by the bass response. For certain bass frequencies (eg bass in castle on the hill by Ed Sheehan), the bass is very boomy. I discussed it with the hifi shop that I purchased the speakers from a few years ago and they suggested that the tube amps may not be a good match for my speakers (something about tube amps being a bit slow). Has anyone else had this experience? Would a decent solid state amp help. I was recommended a Devialet 220 pro recently but just not sure. Thanks for your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wen Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 had a fellow SNA'er roud to listen to my tube amp, 8wpc, he was surprised at the outcome, but his passion was for orchestral and organ music, he also had B&W speakers, he had solid state but wanted tubes, listened to a tube pre amp and a class D 100wpc power amp built by MWHouston here on SNA on his speakers in his home and purchased them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanica Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Couj said: I absolutely love the mids and highs in my system but, for some time now, I’ve been challenged by the bass response. For certain bass frequencies (eg bass in castle on the hill by Ed Sheehan), the bass is very boomy. Welcome to the not so wonderful world of room acoustics messing up the bass response of your system. 1 hour ago, Couj said: Would a decent solid state amp help. Probably not much, if at all. Edited March 30, 2020 by Satanica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deanB Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 If the 803 measure anything like the 802 then the bass region is not suited to valve amps. Low/fluctuating impedances combined with capacitive phase angles below 160hz isn't what valve amps were designed to deal with. Midrange is an easier load to drive which translates to what you're hearing. No amount of postional experimentation or room treatments will help your poor old output transformers in the bass region. Get a beefy ss amp or speakers that are more suited to valve amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 Thanks folks - I really appreciate the feedback. I suspected it could be a room issue but I wasn’t sure. Interesting the different views on this. The frequency diagram above is also very helpful. This certainly supports the comments from my local hifi shop. Perhaps it is a good time to trade in my tube gear on a a SS amp - something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooogh Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Hi Couj, If your local hifi shop is a very helpful one (ie good one!) and you are contemplating buying a new product from them I would take your whole system to the store. Then you can try other amps with your speakers, but also other speakers with your amps. You might end up keeping the amps and selling the speakers. Stereo Knight were always well regarded and beautifully built. Or you can lug your speakers around to different dealers, give them a price bracket and ask to hear them with their most suitable amp. Conversely take your amps and ask to hear their best suited speakers in your price range. The theory only ever gets you so far, the BS stops though once you hook stuff together. If you are looking to buy second hand things get more difficult..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I think you have both great amps and great speakers but they are not a good match. B&W's need a massive amount of current which valve amps just don't provide in order to give good bass, but don't despair, a massive number of other amps won't either, they are not easy to pair with gear. Stereo Knight gear is very, very nice, but it isn't geared towards coping with speakers that are current hogs, speakers that are easier to drive will release their magic very easily. Any pair of Osborn speakers for example will let those amps shine. Personally I'm not a fan of B&W's (at all) so I'd be selling the speakers, keeping the amps and buying a pair of Osborn Eclipse or Epitome towers. But that is just me. If you are intent on keeping the speakers then you should probably be looking at a solid state power amp (or mono blocks) but don't go cheap, current is expensive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops110 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 @todagt I believe was running Bryston power amps with his 803’s. Very good match. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irek Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I would try class D power amp, maybe Primare A60 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deanB Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Couj said: Thanks folks - I really appreciate the feedback. I suspected it could be a room issue but I wasn’t sure. Interesting the different views on this. The frequency diagram above is also very helpful. This certainly supports the comments from my local hifi shop. Perhaps it is a good time to trade in my tube gear on a a SS amp - something to think about. Being a big fan of valve amps, my biased view is hang on to the StereoKnights and have a look at the Fyne Audio range of speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pops110 said: @todagt I believe was running Bryston power amps with his 803’s. Very good match. Yes he loaned me his 4BSST2 amp to try out with my Hulgichs , and it was a perfect match. Should be ideal with the 803s. Edit: should add I was so impressed, now a Bryston 4B3 owner! Edited March 31, 2020 by evil c 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted March 31, 2020 Author Share Posted March 31, 2020 Lots of good advice. I really love the Stereo Knight gear but it cost a lot less than the speakers and I do think they are great too. The best economic decision is probably to move the Stereo Knight gear on (my wife had a moment of weakness when she let me get the speakers and I don’t think she’ll ever let me spend that much again (or close to it) on replacement speakers but she may let me spend about $5k plus the money I can get for selling my Stereo Knight gear on an amp - so probably looking at the 2nd hand market. Very tricky. I’ll keep my eye out for something in that price range with high current. Let me know if there are any suggestions (in addition to the Bryson and Primare gear referred to above). Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDX Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 You need a high current bug amp to get to the best of it. And you need Gaia 1 or 2 footer to control your bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vassp Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Couj said: Lots of good advice. I really love the Stereo Knight gear but it cost a lot less than the speakers and I do think they are great too. The best economic decision is probably to move the Stereo Knight gear on (my wife had a moment of weakness when she let me get the speakers and I don’t think she’ll ever let me spend that much again (or close to it) on replacement speakers but she may let me spend about $5k plus the money I can get for selling my Stereo Knight gear on an amp - so probably looking at the 2nd hand market. Very tricky. I’ll keep my eye out for something in that price range with high current. Let me know if there are any suggestions (in addition to the Bryson and Primare gear referred to above). Thanks again. Your speakers are power hogs like mine, you would feel a revelation getting a high current amp to drive them. I did just that a month or so ago and could not be happier. I’m waiting to get my valve pre amp so l can complete my upgrade. So you don’t have to give up valves entirely if you don’t want to. Edited April 1, 2020 by vassp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thanks Vassp - which amp are you running with your speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davm Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) I own B&W 803 D3s and use a Sanders Magtech solid state power amp. The Magtech is rated at 500W into 8 ohms, 900W into 4 ohms and is stable down to 1 ohm -- so plenty of power. I have no problem with bass, but room placement does have a huge influence. I find the 803s can be positioned quite close to the front wall without getting too boomy and this may help with bass. Agree that Bryston would be a good match. Also consider Electrocompaniet and I saw a Burmester 956 advertised in the classifieds that caught my eye. Edited April 1, 2020 by davm spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thanks Davm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 30/03/2020 at 11:00 PM, Couj said: I currently System is as follows: speakers: B&W 803 D3s pre amp: stereo knight enigma (tube pre amp) dac: PS Audio Direct Stream Junior Power Amps 2 x Stereo Knight M100 monoblocks i absolutely love the mids and highs in my system but, for some time now, I’ve been challenged by the bass response. For certain bass frequencies (eg bass in castle on the hill by Ed Sheehan), the bass is very boomy. I discussed it with the hifi shop that I purchased the speakers from a few years ago and they suggested that the tube amps may not be a good match for my speakers (something about tube amps being a bit slow). Has anyone else had this experience? Would a decent solid state amp help. I was recommended a Devialet 220 pro recently but just not sure. Thanks for your thoughts? I own 800D2's and usually drive them with a big SS amp (ME1400) but last summer I decided to bi-amp them, using hypex NC500 based monoblocks to drive the woofers and a cool running 100W SS amp to drive the mids and tweeters. Turned out to be a great combo, and the hypex drove the woofers with perfect control, authority and dynamic impact. If you're able to match the voltage gains effectively I think you'd find bi-amping with class D amps a perfect and relatively low cost solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thanks Art. Do you think a pair of Holton class D amps would provide similar benefits? I quite like the idea of buying Australian made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I would have a look at this amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vassp Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Couj said: Thanks Vassp - which amp are you running with your speakers? hi couj, I’m running a Parasound A21 plus, it’s a great amp with very very nice sound, only drawback so far is the pace/tempo. its only obvious in a hand full of songs where the music feels like it’s dragging. now the amp is not run in yet (not sure if it will improve tempo) and l have not yet bought a dedicated pre amp (still using my marantz integrated as pre amp). parasound jc5 is a step up if you afford it....but the A21 + is close for a lot less money, hope you get my point , look at amps with high current and around 500wpc. pass labs match well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couj Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thanks Vassp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 17 hours ago, Couj said: Thanks Art. Do you think a pair of Holton class D amps would provide similar benefits? I quite like the idea of buying Australian made Yep, they would do the job just fine. You might even be able to get Mr Holton to adjust the voltage gain to match your M100's which will negate the need to use passive attenuators. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cafad Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Art Vandelay said: Yep, they would do the job just fine. You might even be able to get Mr Holton to adjust the voltage gain to match your M100's which will negate the need to use passive attenuators. Now there's a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realysm42 Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) Being honest, I'm shocked that everyone is advocating just buying a new amp, it may be the solution but it may not... NB. I've written this with the assumption you want to keep your speakers and that you're willing to put the work in to at least understand the root cause of your issue (with gear like yours I'm sure you are ) You need to eliminate the likely issue(s) in your set up, it sounds like it could be: Your rooms acoustics your amps inability to drive your speakers (in the bass region) Bearing this in mind; forget demoing any gear at a hi-fi store, as you'll be in their room, whose acoustics (read 'challenges') will be different to yours Demo / borrow an amp that is a known good combination with your speakers, in your system; you'll soon know then if it's the amp that is your issue If this fixes your problem, you know what to do. If the issue persists with the demo amp, take a measurement of your rooms acoustics (avoid using your smartphone and an app, they can be >20db out!) You may just be impressed / surprised how bad a room can be (I had a +20db peak in one room ) If this is your issue, welcome to the murky world of acoustics, something well worth researching Save $$$$ on replacing equipment when it wasn't the issue in the first place Edited April 2, 2020 by realysm42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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