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Once I finally upgrade my receiver it will be for the sake of bells and whistles (streaming wifi  or bluetooth for spotify etc), Arc on the hdmi, HDR, 4K etc.
Unfortunately I will still be limited to 3.1
Does that effect what brands I should be looking at? It seems like the better the bells and whistles or the amp stage, it invariably also comes with up to 11.2 channels, which I do not need. Are there any beefy amps out there with all the modern processing capabilities that still sit at 5.1 - 7.2?

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Consider an Anthem MRX520 or NAD T578 V3. If you're looking at the latter, seem to recall that the early V3s had noisy surround channels - you should confirm with the seller it has the revised board, if only for resale value.

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Depends on speakers, budget, preferences, music/movie ratio. 

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19 hours ago, Irek said:

Depends on speakers, budget, preferences, music/movie ratio. 

And space in the room.  Its not very convenient to house 7 speakers cabled around the living room.

All amps/receivers will do basic 5.1, its just that you don't get to experience what Atmos or the newer formats will offer with a basic 3.1 or 5.1 setup. 

 

And simply for this reason (I was limited to a 2.2) setup in my current room, I went with a soundbar approach.  It was a good compromise without the need to have all those additional speakers around the room for an Atmos experience.

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I guess I am looking at a brand that does a "beefy" 5.1 - 7.2, while still doing the latest tricks like wifi and arc over hdmi.
Seems like most brands in the 5.1-7.2 have this as their entry level, and you need to go up to the 9.2-11.2 to see a better amp stage. I am looking for that 11.2 amp power concentrated in to lesser channels.

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We need to know your speakers, budget, preferences, music/movie ratio, room size to determined how much power you need and the quality of AVR. 

Nothing wrong with 3.1.

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3 hours ago, Andre28 said:

I guess I am looking at a brand that does a "beefy" 5.1 - 7.2, while still doing the latest tricks like wifi and arc over hdmi.
Seems like most brands in the 5.1-7.2 have this as their entry level, and you need to go up to the 9.2-11.2 to see a better amp stage. I am looking for that 11.2 amp power concentrated in to lesser channels.

Have a read on what I wrote so that you can navigate through the jungle called AVR power specs.

Can believe Arcam, NAD, Marantz more than the others with regards to real power.

 

I need to update that page with Marantz, who likely use Class D amps and has a 70% power guarantee for multi channel use (which I covered further down in thread).
 

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@Andre28 soon, i will post revised guide that is backed by data.

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So there arent any specific brands that do higher-end 5.1-7.2 AVRs it seems like? Looking to spend under $2k. The Yamaha RXV 1800b has been good to me, but lacks new features. I spent a little under $2k on that, and its 7.1 I believe, so I dont want to go backwards in terms of power by spending the same amount on an 11.2 AVR

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On 16/03/2020 at 12:10 PM, Irek said:

We need to know your speakers, budget, preferences, music/movie ratio, room size to determined how much power you need and the quality of AVR. 

Nothing wrong with 3.1.

 

7 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

So there arent any specific brands that do higher-end 5.1-7.2 AVRs it seems like? Looking to spend under $2k. The Yamaha RXV 1800b has been good to me, but lacks new features. I spent a little under $2k on that, and its 7.1 I believe, so I dont want to go backwards in terms of power by spending the same amount on an 11.2 AVR

If you can answer the other questions that Irek asked, we can begin to narrow things down.  Budget is max $2K. 

 

What are new features which are mandatory?

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8 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

So there arent any specific brands that do higher-end 5.1-7.2 AVRs it seems like? Looking to spend under $2k. The Yamaha RXV 1800b has been good to me, but lacks new features. I spent a little under $2k on that, and its 7.1 I believe, so I dont want to go backwards in terms of power by spending the same amount on an 11.2 AVR

The Anthem and NAD I mentioned above should be $2K or under with some haggling and have decent power and sound. The rest of the market either have complete BS marketing for their outputs and/or dubious reliability IMO.

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47 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

 

If you can answer the other questions that Irek asked, we can begin to narrow things down.  Budget is max $2K. 

 

What are new features which are mandatory?

Spotify over wifi, return arc over HDMI, and probably HDR10 (look I dont even know what this is, but if its a feature for improved picture that a future new TV has, then I would like to have it).

Speakers are largish bookshelves, either something like the new Wharfdale evo 4.2 or potentially the VAF i91MII. Currently have Krix KDX,

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10 minutes ago, Andre28 said:

Spotify over wifi, return arc over HDMI, and probably HDR10 (look I dont even know what this is, but if its a feature for improved picture that a future new TV has, then I would like to have it).

Speakers are largish bookshelves, either something like the new Wharfdale evo 4.2 or potentially the VAF i91MII. Currently have Krix KDX,

Very important: mix between movies and music.  And do you listen to music casually or more critically.  Size of room, is it dedicated & treated or shared.?  Promise to talk about specific AVRs (although Quark has already done so!

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Mostly movies, when I do use it for music it will not be critical listening.
I did see somewhere has a run out Denon 3500h for $1450. This seems like a bargain. It is 7.2 compared to the 9.2 of the 3600h. Otherwise it seems to have pretty similar features.

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Posted (edited)

You could pickup a Refurb Yamaha RX-V1085 7.2-channel for $1,179.00. See:

 

https://www.excelhifi.com.au/yamaha-rx-v1083-refurbished.html

 

They also have it on their eBay store here, at $1199.00:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RX-V1085-AV-Receiver-Aus-Warranty/124099833063

 

Selby have new units on their eBay store for $1,348.99. See:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RX-V1085-7-2-Channel-AV-Receiver-RXV1085B/333260354269

 

 

I think this model would well and truely meet you needs. Have a look at the features here:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v1085/index.html#product-tabs

 

Download the manual here and have a read on pages 17-21 here.

 

https://au.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/1206420/web_AV17-0218_RX-V1085_om_C_En_D0.pdf

 

The unit has 7 built-in amplifiers. You can connect 2 to 9 speakers and up to 2 subwoofers for either 7.1 or 5.1.2 or 5.1 or  2.1

 

Radio Parts also have it on their eBay store for $1,503.00. See:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RX-V1085-YAMAHA-7-2Ch-Atmos-Mc-AV-Receiver-4K-Ultra-HD-Hdcp2-2-Compliant-Dolby/192620943343

 

 

The Yamaha RX-V2085 9.2 channel could also meet your needs. Excel HiFi have the Refurb units on their eBay store for $1,549.00. See:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-RX-V2085-AV-Receiver-Aus-Warranty/124066647443

 

 

There are also new Yamaha RX-V2085 YAMAHA 9.2 Channel units on eBay as well. See:

 

$1,903.00

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RX-V2085-YAMAHA-9-2Ch-AV-Receiver-W-3D-Sound-Field-and-Surround-Ai-Musiccast/192684763061

 

$1,894.99

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-RX-V2085-9-2-Channel-AV-Receiver-RXV2085B/333260354267

 

 

Checkout the features here:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v2085/features.html#product-tabs

 

Download and read manual here:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/1206424/web_AV17-0235_RX-V3085_2085_om_A_En_D0.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by bizzibee

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I was looking at that refurb 2085 as well. Do you think that over the Denon 3500h?

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Andre28 said:

I was looking at that refurb 2085 as well. Do you think that over the Denon 3500h?

Hi Andre28,

 

I don't want to get into a this Receiver is a better than that receiver discussion because frankly it is pointless, is very subjective and any opinions given are just that, opinions and nothing more. A lot of  variables need to  considered and take into account before advice is given.  Having said that, the Denon 3500 is OK value at $1450 because it is discounted, but personally I'd take the RX-V2085. See this link for a comparison of features between both these Receivers so you can draw your own conclusions :

 

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/yamaha-rx-v2085/australia/denon-avr-x3500h/usa/

 

What I will say is that in my opinion Australia is being ripped off by the Australian Denon & Marantz distributor. See:

 

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html?brand_f[]=DENON&brand_f[]=MARANTZ

 

Now look at the price of the Yamaha Receivers:

 

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html?brand_f[]=YAMAHA

 

The Yamaha prices are comparable to the prices we pay in Australia for new and Refurb units. Yes I know there aren't any Reburb Denon or Marantz units offered in Australia. But look at the List/RRP of the new units in the US compared to prices for new units in Australia.

 

I purchased a Yamaha RX-A3080 from Excel HiFI and you wouldn't know it was a Refurb except there were no batteries for the Remote, and I'm very happy with it.

 

The Refurb Yamaha RX-V2085 9.2 channel is $1,449.00 on the Excel HiFi Web site. See:

 

https://www.excelhifi.com.au/yamaha-rx-v2085-refurbished.html

 

But they say they don't have any on their site but they are on their eBay store for $1,549.00. So go figure.

 

What is a Refurb:

 

https://www.excelhifi.com.au/what-is-refurbished-en.html

 

Warranty on Refurb:

 

https://www.excelhifi.com.au/warranty.html

 

NB: You will get 12 months warranty not 24 months warranty on Refurb units.

 

 

 

Edited by bizzibee

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Yamaha RX-V1085 has pre outs so you can add 5 channels power amp. Just another option.  

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6 hours ago, Andre28 said:

Mostly movies, when I do use it for music it will not be critical listening.
I did see somewhere has a run out Denon 3500h for $1450. This seems like a bargain. It is 7.2 compared to the 9.2 of the 3600h. Otherwise it seems to have pretty similar features.

For mostly movies, lots of AVRs to choose from.  You were concerned by power.  My latest post, an updated version now has Test Bench data to suggest that the 2 channels power is what the vendor says. For 3.1, it will still be large.  While I have no Test Bench data for 3 channels, it will be between the 2 channels and 5 channels power.

 

Some things to consider when choosing an AVR:

  • Power which is covered above
  • Have mandatory features; not nice to have things to future proof your purchase.  Unfortunately, AVRs models change very quickly and they are probably the fastest depreciating product on SNA.  Future proofing can be done if you purchase a multi channel power amp and a home theatre preprocessor, where you only upgrade the prepro. But prepros are expensive...
  • Listen and compare AVR brands. For example, Yamaha and Denon sound slightly different and some prefer Yamaha, I think Denon slightly better fits my taste.
  • If you are not interested in Atmos, a used higher end AVR is better value.
  • Room Correction Software (old but relevant article) makes a difference.  Dirac and Anthem Room Correction are the better ones, Audyssey is ok for movies but not music.

I place a lot of value on room correction software and hence suggest looking at the Anthem MRX-520 or NAD T758V3., both when on sale can meet your budget  If those do not fit, then Marantz, Denon, then Yamaha.  Yes, Yamaha does not have the "Aussie Tax" as someone pointed out and thus is probably better value? But YPAO room correction is so, so.

 

Hope this helps...

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Thanks all, good advice here.

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Posted (edited)

If you don't want to or can't run cables from the AVR to surrounds then there is an option of something like HEOS. The HEOS speakers would need power but have a wireless connection to receiver. That would enable more than 3.1 . Maybe you have no interest in that right now, but it might become a consideration for future upgrades.

Edited by gwurb

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I do have a spot ear-marked for that. Essentially the 2 back speakers would be right next to each other though, a little off center of directly behind the lounge. Not sure if this is better or worse than 3.1 (assuming I can even get it past the inspector).

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I would think you would want them at least at the edges of the couch in terms of 'width'.


I was in a similar situation, doing stereo then 3.1, and then thinking of ways to get to 5.1. My surrounds are more like back surrounds. Maybe 20cm away from the corners of the seating. It's made a big difference upgrading from 3.1 to 5.1. I did get a way to run cables but if I had HEOS option then I would have probably chosen that as it would look cleaner. 
 

Maybe Yamaha has something similar to HEOS in their receivers with 5.1 support? Don't know. I would say try to stick to manufacturer technology and not third part wireless if you can. You would see better integration, especially if you are looking at a whole AVR as opposed to 3.1 to 5.1 upgrade needing a few wireless accessories.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gwurb said:

Maybe Yamaha has something similar to HEOS in their receivers with 5.1 support? Don't know. I would say try to stick to manufacturer technology and not third part wireless if you can. You would see better integration, especially if you are looking at a whole AVR as opposed to 3.1 to 5.1 upgrade needing a few wireless accessories.

Yes Yamaha have MusicCast which is supported on both the Yamaha RX-V2085 9.2 channel & Yamaha RX-V1085 7.2 channel See:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/contents/audio_visual/musiccast/index.html#

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v2085/features.html#product-tabs

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v1085/features.html#product-tabs

 

With MusicCast 50 or MusicCast 20 wireless streaming speakers you can create a home theatre with wireless rear speakers. See:

 

https://download.yamaha.com/files/tcm:39-1245988

 

Here is some product info on MusicCast 50 and MusicCast 20 wireless streaming speakers:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/multi-room_audio/musiccast_20/index.html

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/multi-room_audio/musiccast_50/index.html

 

There is also the MusicCast SUB 100.

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/speakers/musiccast_sub_100/index.html

 

 

For more detailed information regarding the use of MusicCast with the Yamaha RX-V2085 9.2 channel & Yamaha RX-V1085 7.2 channel Receivers, download manual and search manual for word MusicCast. See:

 

Download RX-V2085 manual here:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/4/1206424/web_AV17-0235_RX-V3085_2085_om_A_En_D0.pdf

 

Download RX-V1085 manual here.

 

https://au.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/1206420/web_AV17-0218_RX-V1085_om_C_En_D0.pdf

 

Edited by bizzibee

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Was just browsing some of the power consumption info. Can it be that the Maranzt 5014 has a power consumption of 650W? This seems high, yamaha 3080 (RRP is $1000 more) comes in at 490W I believe. Is a Watt a Watt?

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