Will my Yamaha Receiver drive Dynaudio Emit M20’s?

[Lashes]

Ok @Snoopy8, so I get your point on sound quality but surely power is part of the sound quality equation. If the speakers require a certain power to sound good then whatever is connected needs to be at or above that certain level otherwise the quality will be rubbish. I've even read that under-powering a speaker can damage it.

 

Applying the efficiency formula you applied earlier in the thread means the Powernode will have 36 watts per channel. This is pretty close to the 33 watts per channel on my AVR calculation. Have the comments above been more about the sound quality of the AVR, cause earlier on in the thread it seemed to me like some people were saying the AVR wouldn't have the power to drive the Emit M20's?

 

As you mentioned earlier, if I can live with AVR sound, so be it.

 

You also mentioned I should do a comparison with the AVR and an integrated amp, is your estimation that I would see a noticeable and significant improvement with the Powernode?

Edited March 12, 2020 by Lashes

[Snoopy8]

@Lashes Unlike AVRs, the stereo numbers are true numbers. There is a standard for the declaration for stereo but not multi channel. The AVR manufacturers chose to interpret that standatd, each in their own way, for multi channel units to maximise its marketing potential (i.e. BS!).

 

I am keen for you to learn about the difference in music sound quality between an AVR (jack of many trades) and a stereo system (does music only).  Some people find the AVR acceptable (because of budget, space, mainly casual listening etc).  If you fall into this category, then the next step is to get a best possible AVR with the largest true power.

 

But if you prefer the sound of a stereo integrated, then this whole thread becomes redundant.

 

I have said far too much in this thread already and irritated a few people. 

Please go away (said nicely!)  and listen...  

[bmc]

The specs given by Yamaha for the RX-V3073 are pretty clear 

 

Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 150W (8ohms, 0.06% THD)

 

Those for the Powernode are somewhat vague

 

60 Watts x 2 into 8 ohms

 

i.e no frequency range or distortion level given.

 

The Yamaha will definitely deliver significantly more power in stereo mode and plenty to drive Dynaudio Emit 20.

 

 

[Lashes]

I think this thread has run its course for the moment. My plan from here is to take my AVR to my auditions. 

Thank you to the people who contributed and made me aware of some things to look into further.

 

I will endeavour to update this thread once I’ve gotten set up. In case it helps someone in the future. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Lashes

[$piro]

I was in a similar position a while ago trying to power my dynaudio bookshelfS from a yamaha receiver (rookie error) At high levels my receiver would go into meltdown and shutoff simply because its not designed to push a 4 ohm load all day long. Thats not to say that it sounded terrible at low-med levels. I would probably jump on an 6-8 ohm speaker to get started simply because you already have the receiver and then probably plan for a better setup as you interests evolve. Those paradigms mentioned above would get you up and running quite nicely. The dynaudios are gonna be a little too thirsty for your receiver and any capable salesman should probably outline that to you. 

[Bunno77]

16 minutes ago, $piro said:

I was in a similar position a while ago trying to power my dynaudio bookshelfS from a yamaha receiver (rookie error) At high levels my receiver would go into meltdown and shutoff simply because its not designed to push a 4 ohm load all day long. Thats not to say that it sounded terrible at low-med levels. I would probably jump on an 6-8 ohm speaker to get started simply because you already have the receiver and then probably plan for a better setup as you interests evolve. Those paradigms mentioned above would get you up and running quite nicely. The dynaudios are gonna be a little too thirsty for your receiver and any capable salesman should probably outline that to you. 

Were they emits? 

[$piro]

They are dm 2/8.  Have an 8 inch driver that can push hard down low and am giving them lots of stick via an emotiva power amp. They sound big and clean for an entry level dynaudio

[Bunno77]

5 minutes ago, $piro said:

They are dm 2/8.  Have an 8 inch driver that can push hard down low and am giving them lots of stick via an emotiva power amp. They sound big and clean for an entry level dynaudio

So no. As Roland said the Emits had effort put in to work better with AVRs and aren't as much of a difficult load as the DM series this shows that AVRs just don't do a good job even with entry level bookshelves and even the likes of emotiva can be an upgrade. 

[$piro]

Would it be safe to say that he can power them but not satisy them ?

[Bunno77]

47 minutes ago, $piro said:

Would it be safe to say that he can power them but not satisy them ?

yeah like my first post. I ran Emits on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha and others daily. If it were only a surround HT system going for then fine but music seems to be a priority

There is a lot more to popular name, modern AVRs that are detriment to music performance than just power ratings. Power ratings are the last thing to worry about

[LHC]

Look a used pair of Emit M20 is available in the Classifieds. Unfortunately located in Brisbane though. 

 

 

[Lashes]

Thanks @LHC I did some auditioning on the weekend in store. One of the options was the Emit M20’s.

 

i discussed how my avr would go. I was advised that it would be fine for the emits but would struggle with any of the other higher model Dynaudios. 
 

That’s probably the end of this thread for me. However, I thought someone who finds this thread later might be interested in my perspective of the auditions. That’s next. 
 

I listened to the kef Ls50, richter Merlin s6 and the Dynaudio Emit M20’s. To my ears, the Dynaudios were my least favourite. (It probably didn’t help that on one of my auditioning tracks the first sound brought out a vibration in the driver.) I was told it had been a floor model for quite sometime and may have been dropped. That aside, wasn’t the sound I was looking for. 
 

Quite liked the LS50’s, but that aluminium midrange driver was a little in your face for me.
 

So my pick was the Richter Merlin S6. For me it had a bigger sound stage than the other two. It even provided an element of instrumentation separation. The tones it produced seem to match what I’m looking for in a speaker. In the price range I’m looking at, I think these might be hard to beat!

Edited March 16, 2020 by Lashes
Typo

[Snoopy8]

@Lashes you original query inspired me to do further research and down a few blind alleys.  I now have definitive data to backup what I will say.

Your Yamaha will deliver to specs regarding stereo power.  My views have changed since I dug up Test Bench data from Sound & Vision who did their own independent measuring.

 

Please note that while power itself is enough, your Yamaha has basic analog stages and a multi channel DAC.   AVRs are not enough for my music requirements but you may be happy with it.

 

Happy listening.

[Lashes]

Thanks @Snoopy8, I posted in your other thread before I realised you’d posted here... well done on the researching. I think if people want to track this thread in the future they will benefit by looking at your thread as well. 

[Jebediah]

@Lashes curious to know where your journey has taken you thus far?

Ie what's the latest? 

[Lashes]

Here's the update!

 

Sorry for the delay @Jebediah, I found I became quite addicted to the banter on here so I've been on a bit of a sabbatical.

 

I've really reached a stalemate at the moment. I don't think I'm going to get much better unless I spend big.

 

I went ahead with the Merlin S6's and I'm very happy with them. As mentioned in a previous post I really thought for the money these were a great. When I listened to them in store they were hooked up to serious McIntosh amplification, probably around 10-15k worth.

 

I've stuck with my RX-V3073. When I set the amplifier on Pure Direct it is very good. I'm sure people will scoff but it sounds almost as good as that McIntosh amplification instore. There are two reasons I'm not satisfied with this, I listen to all my music via airplay and there doesn't seem to be a way of making the receiver turn on remotely and be in Pure Direct mode without further intervention from me.

 

Secondly, I'm crippled by the physics of the universe, Bookshelf speakers can only go so low. I got a custom built Kurlette (sub) from Legend Speakers with an upgraded driver. (I listened to their bookshelves but to get the model I wanted, they were too far out of my price range). The sub sound great.

 

I have experimented setting up the sub in different ways. When I purchased the sub I didn't realise I couldn't use the crossover feature on the receiver in Pure Direct mode. This means I have to sacrifice some sound quality if I want to take some pressure off the Merlins and palm those lower frequencies off to the sub. At high volumes, playing dense tracks the Merlin's can loose some of that clear definition. I should say though, tracks that aren't dense, even at high volumes the Merlin's sound great.

 

I think ideally for me it would have been to have a sub that not only has high level inputs, but high level outputs as well with a crossover in between. That way I could get the best out of the receiver and the best out of the Merlins. I also notice an improvement when I use the high level inputs on the sub.

 

After everything I read on here, I kept looking for better amplification. I brought a Bluesound Powernode 2i into my setup at home and I was underwhelmed. I had read so many good things about the Powernode and it also has airplay 2 which is important for me. In my setup the Powernode sounded kinda flat, it just didn't seem to have the more alive sound I get from the receiver or McIntosh setup instore. The Powernode also has a set crossover point for the sub and can't be adjusted, which isn't ideal for me, I would like the adjustability. I did find that the sub volume level was better balanced across the volume range when compared to my receiver however. In the end, I was looking to pay $1200 for a little more convenience, and definitely not a jump in sound quality in my listening environment.

 

Considering this topic started out about power. My Yamaha Receiver is able to give me all the volume I need with my Merlins. The Powernode 2i was definitely more powerful but not ridiculously so. I guess when I'm running reference level on the receiver the volume level was comparable to maybe 75% on the Powernode 2i.

 

I also have my receiver hidden in a unit with an open back. The Merlin's are speccd as being 6ohm speakers. I noticed that the receiver was getting warm in summer and after extended, louder listening. I made a perspex cover to fit over the top of the receiver. Then cut a hole in the perspex to put a Noctua fan on top, this sucks out the hot air and draws in the cool air from underneath, this has worked splendidly.

 

So what are my options... I could try the Sonos Amp which has airplay 2 and an adjustable crossover. But everything I've read says it's inferior to the Powernode...if that's true, I'll be disappointed with the Sonos Amp. Then everything else is a big jump in cost, NAD M10, Naim Unity Atom, Cambridge Audio Edge A. (I also want the amp to have HDMI arc, can't stand the out of sync video & audio). I've looked at a NAD c368 with the BlueOS module and HDMI module but then I'm missing a crossover.

 

I've looked to try and find a high quality crossover and I haven't stumbled upon anything that looks like it will do what I want without doing a big spend. With a quality crossover the NAD c368 option could work.

 

So there's my journey...I'm not where I want to be but I'm content that I've looked and can't do much better unless I spend big.

 

I would absolutely welcome anyone to come forward with some ideas I haven't thought of!