Adding custom wood veneer to speakers/AV

[thecoffeegent]

Hey All,

 

Would adding a custom wood veneer to existing speaker veneer have any audible impact or cause issues?

 

How about adding a wood veneer to the sides of audio components? 

 

Anyone played around with custom finishes for your gear?

 

Thanks.

 

(P.s Have access to a professional service (custom interiors/fit outs) so not specifically talking a home DIY job)

[Dean Gale]

What thickness on the veneer are you adding and are you going to clear coat it ? I did an experiment using 10 coats of clear coat acrylic sealer it made an enormous difference , honestly sound great like a musical instrument instead of a speaker . 

[needlerunner]

25 minutes ago, DEANO23 said:

What thickness on the veneer are you adding and are you going to clear coat it ? I did an experiment using 10 coats of clear coat acrylic sealer it made an enormous difference , honestly sound great like a musical instrument instead of a speaker . 

I know it makes a difference on the inside, i.e. lead lined or bitumenisation, not sure external though?

[Dean Gale]

What thickness on the veneer are you adding and are you going to clear coat it ? I did an experiment using 10 coats of clear coat acrylic sealer it made an enormous difference , honestly sound great like a musical instrument instead of a speaker . Lining it with bitumen and felt makes a significant difference , veneer might stiffen the sides a bit doubt on it's own that it would make a big difference. The clear coat ended up being about 9mm thick 

[cheekyboy]

9 hours ago, thecoffeegent said:

Hey All,

 

Would adding a custom wood veneer to existing speaker veneer have any audible impact or cause issues?

 

How about adding a wood veneer to the sides of audio components? 

 

Anyone played around with custom finishes for your gear?

 

Thanks.

 

(P.s Have access to a professional service (custom interiors/fit outs) so not specifically talking a home DIY job)

Hello TCG, (strange name BTW.....it must be hard to pronounce)

 

Adding a natural timber veneer for instance, will make no difference to the sound, whether you apply it to the inside or the outside.

 

I wouldn’t apply veneer over existing veneer, particularly if that existing veneer is peeling or bubbling in any way. 
 

Cheers Keith

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by cheekyboy

[McCvinyl]

Great that you have a professional to do it for you so the results should be top notch and if it effects the sound even slightly in any way it would be positive.

i think the biggest effect will be having that piece of equipment that is your own and individually yours. It will look great to you, suit your surrounding environment and give you more pride of ownership. Arousing all of these senses everytime you look at it or turn it on can only be good.

[Spider27]

9 hours ago, DEANO23 said:

What thickness on the veneer are you adding and are you going to clear coat it ? I did an experiment using 10 coats of clear coat acrylic sealer it made an enormous difference , honestly sound great like a musical instrument instead of a speaker . Lining it with bitumen and felt makes a significant difference , veneer might stiffen the sides a bit doubt on it's own that it would make a big difference. The clear coat ended up being about 9mm thick 

I guess that veneer is about 3mm in thickness and to be 9mm thick, the clear coat sealer is abt 6mm thick (2 times thicker than actual veneer)?

I imagine that it look like glass on top and timber veneer underneath?

 

[cheekyboy]

15 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

I guess that veneer is about 3mm in thickness and to be 9mm thick, the clear coat sealer is abt 6mm thick (2 times thicker than actual veneer)?

I imagine that it look like glass on top and timber veneer underneath?

 

I've used a lot of veneer leaf over the years and I found them to be typically 0.5mm - 0.75mm thick. A 3mm think veneer would be using 4 - 6 leaves, which you simply would not do. What product is this clear sealer coating you're referring to? Most clear sealer coatings applied by brush, roller or spraying would be struggling to reach 50 um dft per coat. To achieve that sort of thickness, you would need to apply well over 120 coats of sealer!! 

 

Anyhow, it will be interesting to know what that product is, as it is obviously some super high solids, high build product.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Spider27]

1 minute ago, cheekyboy said:

I've used a lot of veneer leaf over the years and I found them to be typically 0.5mm - 0.75mm thick. A 3mm think veneer would be using 4 - 6 leaves, which you simply would not do. What product is this clear sealer coating you're referring to? Most clear sealer coatings applied by brush, roller or spraying would be struggling to reach 50 um dft per coat. To achieve that sort of thickness, you would need to apply well over 120 coats of sealer!! 

 

Anyhow, it will be interesting to know what that product is, as it is obviously some super high solids, high build product.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

I am asking similar question to original post made by @DEANO23  Interesting to see how 9mm thickness could be achieved with multiple clearcoat sealer. 

[cheekyboy]

14 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

I am asking similar question to original post made by @DEANO23  Interesting to see how 9mm thickness could be achieved with multiple clearcoat sealer. 

I think you've slightly misunderstood my post, with all due respect. I'm not advocating 9 mm thickness, but rather I'm trying to tell you that that would be ridiculous.

 

You would use one natural timber veneer leaf at say about 0.5mm thick. Typically what is done after that is that 3 - 4 coats of clear polyurethane is applied and that can be a flat, low sheen or gloss finish. Between each coat, the substrate is sanded, using finer grit paper for each subsequent coating in order to achieve a smooth finish. If you applied four coats of clear polyurethane for example, your total dft would be maybe 100 u, - 150 um maximum. 150 um is 0.15 of a mm in thickness, so your total thickness, veneer plus clear coatings would be about 0.65 mm.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited March 8, 2020 by cheekyboy

[Spider27]

6 minutes ago, cheekyboy said:

I think you've slightly misunderstood my post, with all due respect. I'm not advocating 9 mm thickness, but rather I'm trying to tell you that that would be ridiculous.

 

You would use one natural timber veneer leaf at say about 0.5mm thick. Typically what is done after that is that 3 - 4 coats of clear polyurethane is applied and that can be a flat, low sheen or gloss finish. Between each coat, the substrate is sanded, using finer grit paper for each subsequent coating in order to achieve a smooth finish. If you applied four coats of clear polyurethane for example, your total dft would be maybe 100 u, - 150 um maximum. 150 um is 0.15 of a mm in thickness, so your total thickness, veneer plus clear coatings would be about 0.65 mm.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Got it now. 

[cheekyboy]

6 minutes ago, Spider27 said:

Got it now. 

That's good, I hope the explanation helped. Of course, the bigger hurdle you'll have if you've never applied veneer leaf before, is applying that in the first instance. Getting veneer leaf to sit down and stay down using Contact, is a far more difficult task compared with applying a few coats of clear poly!

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

[Dean Gale]

12 hours ago, cheekyboy said:

I've used a lot of veneer leaf over the years and I found them to be typically 0.5mm - 0.75mm thick. A 3mm think veneer would be using 4 - 6 leaves, which you simply would not do. What product is this clear sealer coating you're referring to? Most clear sealer coatings applied by brush, roller or spraying would be struggling to reach 50 um dft per coat. To achieve that sort of thickness, you would need to apply well over 120 coats of sealer!! 

 

Anyhow, it will be interesting to know what that product is, as it is obviously some super high solids, high build product.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Roller it was a commercial clear coat acrylic sealer in a very cold shed . I'll see if I can drill a hole and use a contrast spectrometer to get the exact thickness . Yes I probably don't know the thickness all I can say is the cabinets took on a more definite musical sound . We were moving so every day for two weeks a coat or two was put on depending on the temperature.  I believe if your after a difference a veneer alone is not enough . Put some sealer over it and it will sound better 

[Gee Emm]

8 hours ago, DEANO23 said:

I believe if your after a difference a veneer alone is not enough . Put some sealer over it and it will sound better

I just checked my calendar.

there's 23 days to go.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Gee Emm

[cheekyboy]

41 minutes ago, Gee Emm said:

I just checked my calendar.

there's 23 days to go.

LOL, Mr Happypants. 

[cheekyboy]

On 07/03/2020 at 11:57 PM, DEANO23 said:

What thickness on the veneer are you adding and are you going to clear coat it ? I did an experiment using 10 coats of clear coat acrylic sealer it made an enormous difference , honestly sound great like a musical instrument instead of a speaker . 

 

11 hours ago, DEANO23 said:

Roller it was a commercial clear coat acrylic sealer in a very cold shed . I'll see if I can drill a hole and use a contrast spectrometer to get the exact thickness . Yes I probably don't know the thickness all I can say is the cabinets took on a more definite musical sound . We were moving so every day for two weeks a coat or two was put on depending on the temperature.  I believe if your after a difference a veneer alone is not enough . Put some sealer over it and it will sound better 

Most acrylic clear sealers would have a VS of typically only 30% - 40% and I guess you may have found a HS version which could have been as much as 50% - 60% VS. Assuming you achieved a dft of 60 um per coat and you would have to spray each coat to achieve that sort dft, so your wft had to be at least 120 um, allowing for a conservative loss factor of 20%. You would also need to sand between each coat of clear acrylic and in total after 10 coats applied, your total dft would hopefully be 600 um, or 0.6 mm. That total dft assumes you used a HS acrylic at 60% VS, but if the acrylic was nearer to 30% VS, then your total dft would be more like 0.3 mm. 

 

A total dft of clear acrylic applied at 0.3 mm - 0.6 mm will not have any effect on the sound of a loudspeaker. Applying an inner skin, say a bituminous lining, or adding wool or synthetic wool to the internals of the enclosure will make a difference, but the application of a clear acrylic at about half a mm thick, unfortunately will not.

 

Edit: Just on that 9 mm thickness you say you achieved. Even at an unlikely 50 um dft per coat, you would need to apply a staggering 180 coats of paint!

 

Edit 2: VS = volume solids, HS = high solids, dft = dry film thickness, wft = wet film thickness, um = micron and 1000 microns = 1 millimetre. 

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited March 8, 2020 by cheekyboy

[Dean Gale]

6 hours ago, cheekyboy said:

 

Most acrylic clear sealers would have a VS of typically only 30% - 40% and I guess you may have found a HS version which could have been as much as 50% - 60% VS. Assuming you achieved a dft of 60 um per coat and you would have to spray each coat to achieve that sort dft, so your wft had to be at least 120 um, allowing for a conservative loss factor of 20%. You would also need to sand between each coat of clear acrylic and in total after 10 coats applied, your total dft would hopefully be 600 um, or 0.6 mm. That total dft assumes you used a HS acrylic at 60% VS, but if the acrylic was nearer to 30% VS, then your total dft would be more like 0.3 mm. 

 

A total dft of clear acrylic applied at 0.3 mm - 0.6 mm will not have any effect on the sound of a loudspeaker. Applying an inner skin, say a bituminous lining, or adding wool or synthetic wool to the internals of the enclosure will make a difference, but the application of a clear acrylic at about half a mm thick, unfortunately will not.

 

Edit: Just on that 9 mm thickness you say you achieved. Even at an unlikely 50 um dft per coat, you would need to apply a staggering 180 coats of paint!

 

Edit 2: VS = volume solids, HS = high solids, dft = dry film thickness, wft = wet film thickness, um = micron and 1000 microns = 1 millimetre. 

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Thanks I did mention that the speakers involved as with all speakers I fix up were :- re sealed , lined with bitumen, felt acoustic tiling. I don't know the thickness of the acrylic however I do challenge your assertion that 10 to 11 coats of Acrylic sealant not making a difference because quite frankly how would you know ? f I still had the can i would be upfront with it. Each and every speaker reponds differently , one may be ported , acoustic suspension , there may only be 12mm sidewalls or 19mm whatever .  The speakers in question ( long gone unfortunately) were particleboard the first three coats virtually absorbed into the wood after that each layer was applied either by brush or roller depending on who did it. You have proved your point Keith you know your stuff there is no need to be well I'm sure plenty of people have told you. Anyway the speakers sounded completely different afterwards it may have been a combination of all of the above. 

[cheekyboy]

1 hour ago, DEANO23 said:

Thanks I did mention that the speakers involved as with all speakers I fix up were :- re sealed , lined with bitumen, felt acoustic tiling. I don't know the thickness of the acrylic however I do challenge your assertion that 10 to 11 coats of Acrylic sealant not making a difference because quite frankly how would you know ? f I still had the can i would be upfront with it. Each and every speaker reponds differently , one may be ported , acoustic suspension , there may only be 12mm sidewalls or 19mm whatever .  The speakers in question ( long gone unfortunately) were particleboard the first three coats virtually absorbed into the wood after that each layer was applied either by brush or roller depending on who did it. You have proved your point Keith you know your stuff there is no need to be well I'm sure plenty of people have told you. Anyway the speakers sounded completely different afterwards it may have been a combination of all of the above. 

Yep, the difference or improvement in sound you experienced was due to the internal lining, bitumen and felt you mentioned, but definitely not because of the application of clear coatings to the outside of the enclosure. Also, you say there was around 10 coats applied by brush or roller, which means you would have struggled to achieve 15 - 20 um per coat, so the total film thickness when finished, would have been around 0.20 - 0.25 mm.

 

Edit: @DEANO23You wrote, "You have proved your point Keith you know your stuff there is no need to be well I'm sure plenty of people have told you." You have used no punctuation, so I'm struggling to know exactly what you mean by that?.....................you're sure plenty of people have told me what?

•  

For anyone thinking of applying multiple coats of clear finish, you may end up with a very nice looking job at the end of it all, but it will not make one scrap of difference to how the loudspeaker sounds.

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

Edited March 9, 2020 by cheekyboy

[Guest jakeyb77]

When I had mine clear coated they had to be done one side at a time in a spray booth so as not to get runs. 
This is the way to do it if you want a mirror finish. This takes time as you are doing 4 sides individually rather than in one go.

 

Also I should add it was purely cosmetic rather than for sound purposes. 
 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by jakeyb77

[Orpheus]

I have removed a few posts.

If anyone is feeling offended or upset by another member, sleep on it before replying.

In the mean-time, this thread will be under close watch.