Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On 15/03/2020 at 6:57 PM, almikel said:

 

Phase 2 should be acquiring a measurement rig (mike, mike stand, laptop, REW software (free))

 

Maybe i can make this phase one and do a before-and-after once the curtains are in. I will acquire this REW software and I will also acquire the curtains. And i thank all members of the LOWY institute (hi-fi branch) for their sensible recommendations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 08/03/2020 at 3:30 AM, Peter the Greek said:

We had a space like that in our last house.....have you got another room you can use for listening?

 

In my experience you'll need to cover a good portion of wall or ceiling in acoustic planel. It'll be very expensive,  even DIY, given the scale.....


If that is the only room you have for audio then you have little choice than to try and I mean try and fix it, but as Peter has said it will get very expensive and my bet is chances are after spending lots of money you will end up with a room that still  isn’t good for hi-fi and looks very compromised at best.

 

If you do have any other choice then I’d be listening to Peter.
 

Personally I would first up before spending one dollar on curtains or acoustic panels etc be paying someone who really knows what they are doing to come long and measure your room and advise you on what it will take to fix it, then you can make an informed decision, which chances are will save you money and give you a better outcome.
 

cheers,

Terry

Edited by TerryO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TerryO said:

Personally I would first up before spending one dollar on curtains or acoustic panels etc be paying someone who really knows what they are doing to come long and measure your room and advise you on what it will take to fix it, then you can make an informed decision, which chances are will save you money and give you a better outcome.

I agree.....I'm by no means an expert here. But I hate seeing people waste money, which I'm pretty sure the curtains will be....well at least in achieving an acoustic objective.

 

These modern rooms are really hard to deal with. We managed it in our last house with a variety of printed panels, a sisal rug, and fabric furnishings. But it wasn't perfect. Funnily, I sold those panels to another member last year and it made a night and day difference to his room - different dimensions and layout, but similarly large.

 

The issue I'd have with that room is that it wouldn't be a nice acoustic environment just to be in and talk to someone, let along listen to music or watch a movie.

 

Paying some coin for some advice I think is a prudent approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made an enquiry today over the phone and spoke to a professional who deals mainly in commercial acoustics and he told me to cover the ceiling in acoustic panels with an nrc of 0.8 or higher and its job done. I mentioned the curtains and he said that some improvements can be made through this as well but emphasised the ceiling. I asked him what his fees were and he said $1200 for a site visit and  but suggested i put that money towards treating the ceiling. What a nice bloke !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


16 hours ago, $piro said:

cover the ceiling in acoustic panels 

LOL, of course that'll work. But lets consider the cost - 50mm of Ultratel is say $35/sqm. That excludes fabric, the panels or track system, labour......$30k later, you could have built and treated a nice little sound proof, treated granny flat out the back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/03/2020 at 8:15 PM, $piro said:

he told me to cover the ceiling in acoustic panels with an nrc of 0.8 or higher and its job done.

 

On 18/03/2020 at 1:15 PM, Peter the Greek said:

But lets consider the cost - 50mm of Ultratel is say $35/sqm. That excludes fabric, the panels or track system, labour......$30k later, you could have built and treated a nice little sound proof, treated granny flat out the back

agreed - and I don't think it would do much in the bass end

 

On 17/03/2020 at 8:15 PM, $piro said:

spoke to a professional who deals mainly in commercial acoustics

Sometimes advice over the phone requires qualification - these guys are busy and 9 out of 10 calls are tyre kickers not money spenders - and you can't get good answers/guidance on a phone call..

...also "commercial" acoustics covers a broad range of spaces, with many spaces requiring improved "speech intelligibility" but not good music reproduction - especially not good bass reproduction...

...covering the ceiling would likely assist speech intelligibility...if that was an issue to begin with in your room...it is a major issue in many restaurants with too many reflective surfaces and vocals just bounce around - the ceiling treatment described would help a lot...

 

...but I can guarantee that...

On 17/03/2020 at 8:15 PM, $piro said:

cover the ceiling in acoustic panels with an nrc of 0.8 or higher and its job done

...will not achieve the reverb/decay times in the bottom end that would be the target of a "good" room.

For reference here is a standard for a "good" room http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/acoustic_measurement_standards.pdf

 

Since you're in Melbourne, it would be worth seeking guidance from @Paul Spencer, a member on this forum who does acoustic consulting, and can provide another opinion.

 

I have no commercial connection with Paul, but I have purchased speakers and speaker designs from Paul, and have great respect for his knowledge and skills regarding achieving great "in room" sound for typical home listening spaces.

 

cheers

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/03/2020 at 10:19 PM, mpearce38 said:

if you have the $$$ functional and stylish

 

https://www.artnovion.com/categories/2-residential-hi-fi

 

 

I ended up chasing up some pricing on these.

 

2B2603B0-FB1E-4B03-A2AA-5FFE8DFFA745.jpeg

Pricing with the new Oz $$ it scared the crap out of me.😳

 

perhaps will revisit the idea when things get back to normal

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, joz said:

I ended up chasing up some pricing on these.

@joz check in with @Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi I saw something similar when popped by his showroom, and he is quite local to you, so can see in person. this shot below in a recent thread of his shows the stuff on the back wall...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, betty boop said:

@joz check in with @Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi I saw something similar when popped by his showroom, and he is quite local to you, so can see in person. this shot below in a recent thread of his shows the stuff on the back wall...

 

 

Hi @joz 

I’m very happy to help you with your room acoustics. I can help with a full sweep of your room with full graphs showing all nodes and standing waves, alternatively help and advice on single pieces such as the one you posted. I still have competitive pricing on certain artnovion pieces and collections. The pirmacoustics concept shown above are totally different to what you have pictured and I can help you sort out the differences. The hybrid diffuser @betty boop
has shown in my room does an amazing job of capturing the vocals in the soundstage.  I have my version of the pirmacoustics - custom made in 60 different colors to suit your room and needs. 
Please Pm me for more details on any of this. Thanks for the tag @betty boop

 kind regards 

Geoff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi

 

will pop down for a visit, but it’ll be a while before my speakers are back in situ.

Atm I have Primaccoustic Broadway panels around the room but like the artnovian ones pictured, well except the cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/03/2020 at 11:08 PM, almikel said:

Since you're in Melbourne, it would be worth seeking guidance from @Paul Spencer, a member on this forum who does acoustic consulting, and can provide another opinion.

Thanks for the mention Mike.

Quote

Sometimes advice over the phone requires qualification - these guys are busy and 9 out of 10 calls are tyre kickers not money spenders - and you can't get good answers/guidance on a phone call..

This may surprise you but I'd say of those who call on the phone about acoustics, very few are tyre kickers.

On 17/03/2020 at 8:15 PM, $piro said:

I made an enquiry today over the phone and spoke to a professional who deals mainly in commercial acoustics and he told me to cover the ceiling in acoustic panels with an nrc of 0.8 or higher and its job done.

I measured a room recently where the entire ceiling had been treated. In this particular case, it was actually too much, resulting in a room that measured more like a studio, but this does show that you can do a lot to tame overall reverberation levels in a room with just the ceiling. Very often the ceiling is neglected in room treatment. It's odd in one sense that so many people consider carpet important, yet don't think at all about the huge untreated ceiling above. The downside with ceiling treatments is that it adds installation challenges. The upside is that you have a very large area that you can treat, usually with fewer obstacles.

 

Going back to your first post where you mentioned speakers, here is something people that often happens in these types of rooms: the speakers often are very close to the wall, either side of a large entertainment cabinet. If you can move the speakers out from the wall behind them, and sometimes the couch a little further forward, this adjusts the ratio of direct to reflected sound. This is a ratio that you can adjust with both treatment and speaker placement. Yes, I know this involves SAF challenges but in rooms like this there is always  a conversation in which we try to find the sweet spot. Very often in these rooms you will end up with a more reflective room that the ideal. In many cases we can get a significant improvement with this one adjustment alone. In some cases, you may find you can get a similar result that may have taken twice as much treatment. With this in mind, isn't it worth seeing how far you can push your luck with speaker placement?

 

Now keeping this in mind, you might also think about having speakers that are not too easily toppled over!

 

Before you make any decisions about how to treat a room like this, you need to consider:

 

1. What specific problems are you aiming to solve? Hint: it's not as simple as reducing reflections.

2. What bass challenges do you have? Some problems you can solve with trial and error - it's not ideal to do it that way but with bass, you really can't.

3. Aesthetics - do you want panels that blend, like say white panels on the ceiling and upper parts of the walls. Do you want panels that could pass as decoration?

 

In a room like this, you might think about both.

 

In some rooms, you can set up bass capable floorstanders and get great bass. In others, there is no feasible speaker placement that will work well for bass. This is where a specific number of subs in specific locations can become the only effective tool to make great bass possible.

 

Here is an example:

 

428203246_MainsvssubEQ.jpg.bc3ff004aa9af3776740f94e60ed647b.jpg

 

The black line is how some very large floorstanders measured in a room very much like this one. You can see the speakers still have some low bass output but in terms of tonal balance, the room is out of whack. The blue curve shows the best sub position I found in this room, with EQ applied - yes I know, that's cheating. The sub is tiny compared to the floorstanders but is has the advantage of being able to go in the ideal bass position.

 

This solves the bass problem, but you may also notice, the low midrange is missing. What this suggests is that very often these kinds of acoustic challenges require solutions that go beyond traditional approaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, joz said:

@Geoff@HeyNow Hi-Fi

 

will pop down for a visit, but it’ll be a while before my speakers are back in situ.

Atm I have Primaccoustic Broadway panels around the room but like the artnovian ones pictured, well except the cost.

Thank Jos. 

Please contact me before you pop in. 
Looking forward to it. 
Regards 

Geoff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/03/2020 at 7:28 AM, joz said:

I ended up chasing up some pricing on these.

 

2B2603B0-FB1E-4B03-A2AA-5FFE8DFFA745.jpeg

Pricing with the new Oz $$ it scared the crap out of me.😳

 

perhaps will revisit the idea when things get back to normal

 

those look awesome but what are they designed to do?

The website calls them a hybrid absorber/diffuser ( https://www.artnovion.com/product-categories/6-absorption/products/317-avalon-flow  ) and has some absorption stats

"Absorption Range:
250 Hz to 5000 Hz"

but no diffusion data...

 

They look way too thin to absorb down to 250Hz though, and their graph shows their absorption is way down by 250Hz

 

They look fantastic...and likely provide some diffusion, or at least scattering...and a new take on a hybrid surface, like a cross between a 1D QRD and a 1D BAD panel.

I'd be interested to see if there's maths behind it or it's just a creation of interior decorating?

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its a very high and large space, you could pretty much build in a mezzanine level effectively lowering the ceiling which would reduce the echo substantially and give you a small upstairs area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Classifieds Statistics


    Currently Active Ads

    Total Sales (Since 2018)

    Total Sales Value (Last 14 Days)

    Total Ads Value (Since March 2020)
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...