Recommendations for speakers that ROCK

[LogicprObe]

32 minutes ago, Bunno77 said:

Bit of a different option that may not suit and I don't know about fatiguing..... 

 

I've been to a few pro audio shops lately and heard quite a few of their PA speakers/systems. Very cheap compared to Hi-Fi and pretty hard to beat for Rock. Many are active too. 

 

Might not replace what you have now but maybe could run alongside for when you want to rock the house? 

 

 

Yeah............and they are made to move about so you can take them places!

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Adding my 2c

 

Have you considered bigger Dyns?

 

Alternativley, if you like Dyn and rock, have a listen to the higher end Dali.

[Yamaha_man]

Big TAD’s or JBL speakers.

You are welcome to listen to Tool at 115db at my place if you are ever in my area.

You will never upgrade from TAD Reference 1 speakers.

[mattjtaylor2809]

Hi Guys,

 

Not sure bigger Dyn's will do it....BTW my focus 380's have twin 8" drivers, Contour 60's ($17K speaker have twin 9" so not that big a diff?) or 20 cms Vs 23 cms drivers.

 

Speaking to the guys Denis White in SA yesturday, they were saying rock isn't Dyn's strong suit....yes, they do rock but not what they're known for. They did actually say hi-end Dali's so maybe I'll check them out....not a brand I know much about & have been all that interested in.

 

Yamaha_Man...do you mean these? I can stretch to $6,500

 

 

Hopefully I'll uncover someone in SA with JBL 4367's, S4700's or S3900's.

 

Cheers

Matt

[mattjtaylor2809]

I could look into one of these?

 

https://www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/sub/sub-6

 

Bloke in the shop said they were about $1K...I may take him up on that offer!

[sakabatou]

14 minutes ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

I could look into one of these?

 

https://www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/sub/sub-6

 

Bloke in the shop said they were about $1K...I may take him up on that offer!

Should've taken them on the spot at that price!

[Yamaha_man]

14 minutes ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Hi Guys,

 

Not sure bigger Dyn's will do it....BTW my focus 380's have twin 8" drivers, Contour 60's ($17K speaker have twin 9" so not that big a diff?) or 20 cms Vs 23 cms drivers.

 

Speaking to the guys Denis White in SA yesturday, they were saying rock isn't Dyn's strong suit....yes, they do rock but not what they're known for. They did actually say hi-end Dali's so maybe I'll check them out....not a brand I know much about & have been all that interested in.

 

Yamaha_Man...do you mean these? I can stretch to $6,500

 

 

Hopefully I'll uncover someone in SA with JBL 4367's, S4700's or S3900's.

 

Cheers

Matt

They will do the job if you can stretch your budget by around 10-12x lol

welcome to come have a listen anytime you are around my area mate.

 

 

 

 

 

[blybo]

Spatial M3 Turbo S can certainly rock with 2x 15" drivers per side and give slam, but probably want a sub for the lowest octave. Well below your budget new as well. Finish is more industrial than premium. Being open baffle they also prefer being at least 1m into the room, and have really nice 3D soundstage, and very good, but not brilliant, imaging.

 

You'd have to find a SA member to demo for you, only dealer is McLeans in Gosford NSW. He might be able to put you in contact with someone.

[mattjtaylor2809]

Looks like those have sold but I like the look of these.

 

http://www.spatialaudio.us/pagex3

 

or even the smaller

 

http://www.spatialaudio.us/pagex5

 

Has anyone heard them?

[jimcan]

Hey Matt, there are some open baffle coaxials up my way (Renmark), if you want to hear what 3x15" drivers per side sounds like in a room similar in size to yours

[Satanica]

3 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

I could look into one of these?

 

https://www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/sub/sub-6

 

Bloke in the shop said they were about $1K...I may take him up on that offer!

One must be careful with sub-woofer(s). Unless setup well they are high risk of making things worse overall.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Satanica

[blybo]

1 hour ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Looks like those have sold but I like the look of these.

 

http://www.spatialaudio.us/pagex3

 

or even the smaller

 

http://www.spatialaudio.us/pagex5

 

Has anyone heard them?

I don't believe McLeans have brought any of the new models to Oz. I know they were still selling the M3 Turbo S a couple of months ago. Here are mine

 

[blybo]

Just remembered @gemini07 bought some M3's last year in black and couldn't be happier with them. He's from SA.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by blybo

[gemini07]

Hi Matt,

 

You are more than welcome to come over for a listen when it suits.

 

@mcvinyl had a listen last Sunday so I'd imagine he'd be able to give you a more neutral opinion.

 

The Spatials provide a very broad sound stage and considerable scale, and to my ears, more than enough bass. Also, they don't need massive power - a more detailed amp at lower power will do the job (which is why I sold my PS Audio gear). 35 W via my vintage Pioneer absolutely rocks the house. 

 

Feel free to send me a PM if interested.

[blybo]

37 minutes ago, gemini07 said:

Also, they don't need massive power - a more detailed amp at lower power will do the job (which is why I sold my PS Audio gear). 35 W via my vintage Pioneer absolutely rocks the house. 

Yup, my 50wpc Moon can easily get mine over 100dB (A weighted) at which point my room acoustics fall apart and ears start to hurt. They also have a lifetime warranty due to using modified pro Audio drivers. Transversely, mine also sound excellent at 45-50dB which is a real plus in a shared multi purpose room such as my 2ch listening space

[surprisetech]

4 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Hi Guys,

Not sure bigger Dyn's will do it....BTW my focus 380's have twin 8" drivers, Contour 60's ($17K speaker have twin 9" so not that big a diff?) or 20 cms Vs 23 cms drivers.

And stated efficiency for the 2 models is the same @88dB.  Just a bit more bass extension with the Contour 60's.  Driver diameter is only a part of the picture.

 

Having said that, when comparing bass drivers, the increase in effective cone area is more significant than what the increase in diameter might suggest.  i.e. When going from 8" to 9" drivers the 12.5% extra diameter gives you about 27% more cone area.

Fun fact: 2 x 8" drivers combined still have about 12% LESS cone area than a single 12" driver.

And then you also have to take efficiency into account.   A 6.5" 91dB driver will produce about the same output as a 9" 88dB driver, although the 9" driver will most likely go lower.

 

[mattjtaylor2809]

2 hours ago, gemini07 said:

Hi Matt,

 

You are more than welcome to come over for a listen when it suits.

 

@mcvinyl had a listen last Sunday so I'd imagine he'd be able to give you a more neutral opinion.

 

The Spatials provide a very broad sound stage and considerable scale, and to my ears, more than enough bass. Also, they don't need massive power - a more detailed amp at lower power will do the job (which is why I sold my PS Audio gear). 35 W via my vintage Pioneer absolutely rocks the house. 

 

Feel free to send me a PM if interested.

Hi gemini07,

 

I may just have to take you up on this offer....Interesting that their latest design have a more traditional look with the baffle & transformer for high frequencies. Were are in SA?

 

[mattjtaylor2809]

1 hour ago, surprisetech said:

And stated efficiency for the 2 models is the same @88dB.  Just a bit more bass extension with the Contour 60's.  Driver diameter is only a part of the picture.

 

Having said that, when comparing bass drivers, the increase in effective cone area is more significant than what the increase in diameter might suggest.  i.e. When going from 8" to 9" drivers the 12.5% extra diameter gives you about 27% more cone area.

Fun fact: 2 x 8" drivers combined still have about 12% LESS cone area than a single 12" driver.

And then you also have to take efficiency into account.   A 6.5" 91dB driver will produce about the same output as a 9" 88dB driver, although the 9" driver will most likely go lower.

 

Interesting stuff, thanks for updating my knowledge on this.

 

I did think that x2 8" was equivalent to a 12" driver but maybe not

[surprisetech]

18 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Interesting stuff, thanks for updating my knowledge on this.

 

I did think that x2 8" was equivalent to a 12" driver but maybe not

You're welcome.  As a general rule of thumb they can be regarded as equivalent.

The 8" drivers would only need to be a little more efficient to provide the same levels as a 12", so it comes down to individual driver design.

[McCvinyl]

On 4 March 2020 at 5:20 PM, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Hi gemini07,

 

I may just have to take you up on this offer....Interesting that their latest design have a more traditional look with the baffle & transformer for high frequencies. Were are in SA?

 

Recommend you have a listen to the spatials they have a good dynamic punch about them, very nice tone and a presentation that easily fills a room.

[BLAH BLAH]

I reckon my retro Sansui SP-5000 speakers would blow any cobwebs, records and furniture out of your listening room and still sound nice...a warm tsunami of sound...

https://www.stereomanuals.com/ref/sansui_sp5000.htm

Edited March 9, 2020 by BLAH BLAH

[was_a]

Epos Epic 5 floorstanders are great for rock. 

 

I'm looking forward to the brand's next releases under new ownership.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by was_a

[mattjtaylor2809]

Interestingly @Grizzly bought over one of his new Line Magnetic amps (LM-805iA) & it did push  my speakers & I'd say "rock" slightly harder than the Ayre power amp I have (VX-5 Twenty).....It;s not to say the Ayre isn't good, it's very good & with only 50 hours on the "Twenty" upgrade, more to come I'm told but it was interesting to see a Class A 48 watt SET integrated easily power my Dyn's to 90+ dB.

[jamiebosco]

I would contact Paul at Red Spade Audio about getting some custom HE2's made up http://www.redspade.com.au/audio/HE2.php

High sensitivity, easy 8 Ohm load, controlled directivity. Should also be capable of some very good mid-bass

 

 

 

Specs

25 to 50 Hz depending on room

 High sensitivity 94db

easy to drive 8 ohm load

1000 H x310 D x 280 W

weight 35.5 kg

[Red Spade Audio]

If you want to create a "rock specialist" system, it's a good idea to be clear on exactly what you want to achieve. That's is your best chance of being able to sit back and just grin at the result ... or head bang, or fist pump if that's your thing!

 

Audiophiles are spoilt for choice with speakers but in my opinion, almost everything is "good but not great" when it comes to rock. If you want to really rock, here's the things I'd argue are most important:

 

1. Dynamic range - essentially this means the ability the deliver high SPL. On its own, this would mean pro audio speakers but these often have problems in other areas.

 

2. Tonal balance - having the right balance in your room is critical. Many audiophiles sell their gear or unwittingly buy new equipment they like better, in some cases purely because it gives a more favourable tonal balance. A lot of people prefer "warm" speakers for rock, which is one particular tonal balance. One of the big problems here is that the bass is often messed up by the room. If you don't have any way to control the bass response, you could be dealing with boomy bass, overly lean bass, uneven bass or even all of these together.

 

3. Accuracy - a certain amount of accuracy is universally needed but quite often speakers that people like for rock are actually fairly inaccurate.

 

4. Effortless - a good rock system needs to play loud without fatigue. It's easy to be unaware of the ways in which your system actually limits how loud you can listen without any sense of strain or fatigue. In working with clients, I've come across a few surprises at times, where changes in the system allow them to enjoy listening louder. It seems to be related to removing things in the system that create discomfort and fatigue.

 

You can achieve this by:

• treating a room
• using tweeters with better behaved breakup
• modifying crossovers (many designs are not well suited to higher SPL)
• altering the tonal balance, often with more bass and in some cases adjusting the shape of the high frequency response

One of the big questions is "how loud do you listen?" There is a certain threshold beyond which many tweeters start to become particularly strained. This is where you might have a silk dome that sounds smooth and refined at moderate levels but when levels go up they start to become strained. At this point, most people just dial back the volume, because here things start to fall apart and it's no longer enjoyable. We tend to think "that's just too loud." But there's an interesting comparison not many have experienced, where you try a speaker with a good compression driver and waveguide. At lower levels, you might prefer the silk dome but when you crank it, this is where a shift occurs. This is where a well sorted design with a compression driver can take you to the next level. With the right design, you can actually enjoy your rock music at a much louder level, before it starts to become too much. This certainly isn't true of all compression drivers or all horns. Far from it. There are so many horns, waveguides and compression drivers that have the opposite effect - making your ears bleed.

 

Sensitivity isn't the answer. There are many speakers with high sensitivity that behave badly even at moderate SPL levels. There are examples of every type. Hence it's a mistake to think that high sensitivity means "good for rock." It's certainly not the case. I've heard so many that have high max SPL on paper, but you just can't enjoy them loud.

 

I'd suggest there isn't a simple answer that will deliver a system that will really rock. But I'd argue these are the most important parts:

 

1. Speakers paired with a suitable amplifier

2. Some way of adjusting the tonal balance

3. A strategy to achieve accurate and balanced bass

4. Acoustic treatment

 

A lot of audiophiles don't want to hear this at all, but very often a sub is an essential part of a good rock system. Sometimes you can get lucky and find that big speakers with a lot of bass potential work out just fine without a sub. However, I see so many examples where this just doesn't work at all. It's almost never the fault of the speakers. Quite often very large and very capable speakers simply don't have enough bass in a particular room, regardless of placement. Sometimes it's just a feature of the only room you have to work with. More often than not, a sub in the right place, when calibrated correctly, will dramatically improve not just the bass but the entire tonal balance. In some cases, a speaker that sounds slightly forward comes into balance when the bass is lifted with a sub. But I should also caution that as Satanic has menioned, yes a sub does introduce challenges. All of them can be navigated but it's not a simple case of plonking down a sub and experiencing bass bliss right away.