Used AVR $1000 price point Denon, Marantz, other?

[gwurb]

I am wanting more power to drive my 5.1 setup. I would prefer an AVR and not separates. As great as the new AVRs are I don't need a lot of their features.

 

Ideally:

*audyssey xt32 (Dirac Would work but its out of budget range?)

*70W+ per channel with 5 channels (I know Denon X3600H will do that but it's double the desired budget)

*4K at 50/60

*Good 2 channel music (I don't mean the same quality as a stereo setup)

 

I have no plans for 7.1 or 7.2. 

No plans for height speakers.
No need for zone 2+.

I am not looking at current generation Denon X2600H etc due to their lower power output.

 

What would be the recommendations from the last few years? For a $1000 budget on the used market? Open box, etc is also fine.

 

Cheers!

[bizzibee]

Perhaps looks at the Marantz SR-5010 or SR-5011. There is used Marantz SR5010 ( $899.00) and two ex Demo SR5011 ($1,164.00 with discount code), models going on eBay which may suit your needs. They have both HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2, two HDMI outputs and other features you mentioned.

 

Marantz SR5010:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Marantz+SR5010&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Marantz+SR

 

Marantz SR5010 Spec's:

 

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&ProductId=SR5010

 

Marantz SR5011 ex Demo:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Marantz+SR5011&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Marantz+SR5010

 

Marantz SR5012 Spec's:

 

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&ProductId=SR5011

 

Marantz SR5010 Vs Marantz SR5014:

 

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/marantz-sr5010/usa/marantz-sr5014/usa/

 

Marantz SR5011 Vs Marantz SR5014:

 

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/marantz-sr5011/usa/marantz-sr5014/usa/

 

 

Also a new Marantx SR5013 $1299 here:

 

https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/clearance-items/marantx-sr5013-7-2-channel-atmos-receiver.html

 

Marantz SR5013 Vs Marantz SR5014:

 

https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/marantz-sr5013/usa/marantz-sr5014/usa/

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by bizzibee

[gwurb]

Thanks @bizzibee

 

I think the first Marantz that started having XT32 are SR5013 or SR6010.

I think for Denon it was X3300W or X4100W.

 

I am hoping someone could shed light on those models. Maybe someone has heard them all? I've asked local shops what they have, and they don't have anything in stock to listen to.

 

Also is it worth getting something of newer model in the lower range (e.g. SR5013 or X3300W) as opposed to older model in higher range (e.g. SR6012 or X4200W).

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by gwurb

[bizzibee]

16 minutes ago, gwurb said:

I think the first Marantz that started having XT32 are SR5013 or SR6010.

Yes OK sorry you are correct. Forget my suggestions.

 

 

 

[gwurb]

1 minute ago, bizzibee said:

Yes OK sorry you are correct. Forget my suggestions.

 

 

 

Do you have any comments on how they sound? Any comparison of Denon to Marantz?

[hopefullguy]

look for a denon 4311 usually around $500 has xt32 and around 90w for 5 channels driven.

 

but you dont post room set up, current speakers and current avr.. a simple rotel 1066 bridged will give you 150w to 3 channels.. they usually run around $400

Edited February 18, 2020 by hopefullguy

[bizzibee]

4 minutes ago, gwurb said:

Do you have any comments on how they sound? Any comparison of Denon to Marantz?

No I haven't listen to them for ages.

 

9 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

look for a denon 4311 usually around $500 has xt32 and around 90w for 5 channels driven.

Denon AVR-4520 also has it but neither support HDCP 2.2 support.

 

18 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

but you dont post room set up, current speakers and current avr.. a simple rotel 1066 bridged will give you 150w to 3 channels.. they usually run around $400

Yes that is an outstanding idea if current receiver has pre-outs.

 

It's a tough call getting a Receiver for $1000 with the spec's you quoted.

 

 

[gwurb]

19 minutes ago, hopefullguy said:

but you dont post room set up, current speakers and current avr

It's a living room with a bunch of stuff around. Thus I am after XT32 to try and have best possible correction. It's also why there is little point in going something higher end.

 

Current AVR is NR1604. L/R floor standing speakers have recommended min of 50w and centre has a recommended min of 70w.

[gwurb]

5 minutes ago, bizzibee said:

It's a tough call getting a Receiver for $1000 with the spec's you quoted.

 

I have seen the following prices of new:

Marantz SR5013 $1068

Denon X3500H $1399

Denon X3400H ~$900

 

They would all now be second hand so I would think they would be lower priced.

 

NR1604 doesn't have a pre out for C so a little stuck with the centre speaker.

 

[bizzibee]

1 hour ago, gwurb said:

Marantz SR5013 $1068

I don't think the SR5013 has the full xt32. I thought it had some components. But I could be wrong.

 

1 hour ago, gwurb said:

Marantz SR5013 $1068

Denon X3500H $1399

Denon X3400H ~$900

 

I've never seen them that cheap new.

 

You can get a this Denon AVR-X4000W 7.2 Channel Integrated Network Receiver $800. Does 4K but doesn'tsupport HDCP 2.2 support.

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/crace/speakers/denon-avr-x4000-4k-with-5-0-speakers/1238445713

 

You can get a this Denon AVR-X4100W 7.2 Channel Integrated Network Receiver $1,100. Does 4K but doesn't support HDCP 2.2 support.

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/coorparoo/radios-receivers/denon-avr-x4100w-7-2-channel-integrated-network-receiver/1238264174

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by bizzibee

[Snoopy8]

7 hours ago, gwurb said:

*70W+ per channel with 5 channels (I know Denon X3600H will do that but it's double the desired budget)

I am sorry to spoil the party but 70+W per channel is very demanding and there are not many AVRs which can really do that.

54 minutes ago, gwurb said:

L/R floor standing speakers have recommended min of 50w and centre has a recommended min of 70w.

Most AVR manufacturers provide marketing BS for the power output and very few actually provide real numbers for multiple channels driven.  A better indicator of power is to use the actual power consumption and divide it by number of channels at 50% efficiency. For example, the Denon X3600H has a power consumption of 600W divided by 9 channels at 50% efficiency = 33W per channel.   Let me be very generous and say it can do 60% efficiency, which make it 40W per channel

 

NAD and Arcam do publish real power output for multiple channels driven;

 

NAD T58V3 does 7 x 60W (0.05% THD, 20-20kHz), NAD T77V3 does 7 x 80W

Arcam AVR390  7 x 60W (1kHz, 0.2% THD), Arcam AVR550 7 x 90W 1kHz, 0.2% THD

 

If you want power of 70+W, then you will need an AVR with at least 1200W power consumption or get the NAD T777V3 or Arcam AVR550 or higher models.  Yes, you will need to pay serious dollars.

 

If you need the power, a better approach is to get multi channel power amp. An Emotiva BASX A-500 will provide 5 x 80W per channel and you can pair them with a cheap AVR (it is cheap because they provide a lot less power) with preouts. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Snoopy8
Added preouts at the end

[gwurb]

5 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

I am sorry to spoil the party but 70+W per channel is very demanding and there are not many AVRs which can really do that.

I was having a read of:

https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3600h
In the case of the AVR-X3600H, Denon has it listed as featuring discrete high-current amplifiers on all channels delivering 105W per channel (8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, THD: 0.08%, 2 Ch. driven). In fact, Denon claims their latest AVR lineup also meets the 70% power guarantee found on Marantz AV receivers. In this case, the AVR-X3600H is guaranteed to deliver 73.5 watts/ch with 5CH driven. Denon engineering supplied us with their test data for the AVR-X3600H showing it was able to deliver 81.9 watts/ch with 5CH driven into 8 ohm loads.
 

Based on that it seems 3600 is doing ok for 5 channels, which is what I want.  I get that for people who want 7,9,11, etc it gets much harder to get the power.

 

[gwurb]

14 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

If you need the power, a better approach is to get multi channel power amp. An Emotiva BASX A-500 will provide 5 x 80W per channel and you can pair them with a cheap AVR (it is cheap because they provide a lot less power) with preouts. 

I was wondering about that. A-500 is ~$1000 new. What AVR would have pre outs and XT32 or Dirac yet be at the lower price point?

[Mr_Gadget]

Maybe wait until the HDMI 2.1 AVRs are released and snatch a bargain when people sell their current AVRs to upgrade?

[cwt]

2 hours ago, gwurb said:

Based on that it seems 3600 is doing ok for 5 channels, which is what I want.  I get that for people who want 7,9,11, etc it gets much harder to get the power.

 

Well ; that just sent the price above 2k which happens to open up better separates [and an A500 natch] if you want everything on your list and prepared to risk warranty returns to the states ? You have to be quick for each lot as they come though..

 

https://emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc-1

Edited February 18, 2020 by cwt

[bizzibee]

36 minutes ago, cwt said:

Well ; that just sent the price above 2k which happens to open up better separates [and an A500 natch] if you want everything on your list and prepared to risk warranty returns to the states ? You have to be quick for each lot as they come though..

https://emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xmc-1

He could also buy a Denon or Marantz directly from the US and save a huge amount of money compared to buying in Australia:

 

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html?brand_f[]=MARANTZ&brand_f[]=DENON

 

But OP would need to know that:

 

1. The local Denon/Marantz distributor QualiFi will never supply spare parts for grey imported Receivers.

2. Would need to use a forwarding company for accessories4less.com to sent to and then forward to Oz.

3. Might need to pay Duty GST when it arrives in Oz

4. All warranty claims, the reverse of point 2

5. Need a 240-110 Volt step down transformer

 

I know people who do this often because of the huge price increase the local distributor QualiFi adds to Denon & Marantz equipment they import into Australia. I personally haven't done that because the price Yamaha Receivers sold here and the US is virtually the same price.

 

Or just buy a Marantz SR6010 from the US like this one:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marantz-SR6010-7-2-Channel-Full-4K-Ultra-HD-A-V-Surround-Receiver-with-Bluetooth/153562307515

 

Or a Marantz SR6012 from the US like this one:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marantz-SR6012-9-2-Channel-Full-4K-Ultra-HD-AV-Surround-Receiver-with-HEOS-Alexa/163783819586

 

Plus 240-110 Volt Step down transformer.

 

Or you can pickup some 220/240 volt Marantz or Denon Receivers here:

 

https://www.avforums.com/forums/receiver-amplifier-classifieds.153/

 

Such as this SR7010 for $1069.83 (£550). See:

 

https://www.avforums.com/threads/marantz-sr7010-black.2274360/

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by bizzibee

[gwurb]

30 minutes ago, cwt said:

Well ; that just sent the price above 2k

That's true for a new receiver.

 

How well do X3500 or X3400 perform? They have been below $1400 brand new, as has SR5013. How well recommended are they ? Are they very under powered compared to the X3600?

 

I was originally looking for recommendations on how well the last few years of Marantz and Denon range perform. Also interested in recommendations of other brands.

[gwurb]

21 minutes ago, bizzibee said:

But OP would need to know that:

 

1. The local Denon/Marantz distributor QualiFi will never supply spare parts for grey imported Receivers.

2. Would need to use a forwarding company for accessories4less.com to sent to and then forward to Oz.

3. Might need to pay Duty GST when it arrives in Oz

4. All warranty claims, the reverse of point 2

5. Need a 240-110 Volt step down transformer

Do you know what happens with something like this?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marantz-SR5013-7-2-180W-4K-AV-Receiver-Amplifier-Amp-Atmos-DTS-X-HEOS-Alexa/303251922204?hash=item469b391d1c:g:TqwAAOSw-hRcyljX:sc:AU_StandardDelivery!2611!AU!-1

They state EU import but 24months Aus warranty? Would the seller be supplying the warranty?

 

[bizzibee]

21 minutes ago, gwurb said:

Do you know what happens with something like this?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marantz-SR5013-7-2-180W-4K-AV-Receiver-Amplifier-Amp-Atmos-DTS-X-HEOS-Alexa/303251922204?hash=item469b391d1c:g:TqwAAOSw-hRcyljX:sc:AU_StandardDelivery!2611!AU!-1

They state EU import but 24months Aus warranty? Would the seller be supplying the warranty?

I actually purchased a Receiver from them. Yes they supply the warranty as it is a grey import. So be aware!

 

Quote

BRAND NEW IN BOX Marantz SR5013 7.2 180W 4K AV Receiver Amplifier Amp Atmos DTS:X HEOS Alexa with 24 MONTHS AUSTRALIAN WARRANTY 

 

This is imported European stock, an EU to AU power plug adaptor will be provided. Alternatively, the power cable is detachable if you choose to replace at minimal cost from Bunnings. All onscreen text, device/remote control labelling and user manuals are in English. GST tax invoice will be provided.

 

I don't think the SR5013 does the full XT32. Has Audyssey MultEQ XT not Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

 

What about this new Marantz SR5013 for $1299 here:

 

https://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/clearance-items/marantx-sr5013-7-2-channel-atmos-receiver.html

 

Why wouldn't you buy this Australian model?

 

I had no issues with the Receiver and then on sold the Sony here on stereo net with full disclosure. See:

 

 

When I purchased a Refurb Yamaha RX-A3080. It was only purchased to use while I waited for a Refurb Yamaha RX-A3080 for $1899.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by bizzibee

[Snoopy8]

3 hours ago, gwurb said:

In fact, Denon claims their latest AVR lineup also meets the 70% power guarantee found on Marantz AV receivers. 

Marketing BS. Please tell me where Denon actually publish that guarantee on their official material? Also, you can fudge numbers by using a ridiculously high THD.

Denon will not publish actual power for multiple channels driven because they are embarrassingly small.

 

As regards to AVR with preouts, probably the lowest mid range model because the entry models no longer have preouts. Audyssey XT32 is ok for movies but for music, not good. Dirac and Anthem Room Correction are good for both movies and music.

 

The only way to meet your requirement f0r 70+W and $1,000 is to buy a very old top of line AVR.  Or raise the budget and get used AVR plus used multi channel amp.

[gwurb]

6 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

The only way to meet your requirement f0r 70+W and $1,000 is to buy a very old top of line AVR.  Or raise the budget and get used AVR plus used multi channel amp.

If the budget was raised, what would be the cheapest suitable option in your opinion? The music requirement can be dropped if needed.

[Snoopy8]

23 minutes ago, gwurb said:

If the budget was raised, what would be the cheapest suitable option in your opinion? The music requirement can be dropped if needed.

Get the cheapest Marantz (slightly better for music) or Denon and has preouts. I do not rate YPAO, so no Yamaha (but they do have many fans here). Sorry, I do not know the Marantz or Denon models well, so it will be easier and faster for you to check the specs than ask me.

 

A quick look on some mentioned previously Marantz SR5013:no, Denon X3500:Yes. I think a Denon X3000 range, Marantz SR6000 range have preouts?

[cwt]

1 hour ago, gwurb said:

That's true for a new receiver.

 

How well do X3500 or X3400 perform? They have been below $1400 brand new, as has SR5013. How well recommended are they ? Are they very under powered compared to the X3600?

 

I was originally looking for recommendations on how well the last few years of Marantz and Denon range perform. Also interested in recommendations of other brands.

The X3500 does 

Quote

 

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive)

105W

which doesn't look good at all for 5ch driven . If you want close to reference levels its a good workaround to choose high sensitivity speakers [over 92db say] like Klipsch ' btw good idea to check your 5.1 speakers sensitivity.. you dont run Klipsch do you ?

https://www.klipsch.com.au/education/speaker-sensitivity

As an aside ; the only specs to trust with some avr's are on the end of an oscilloscope or hooked up to a spectrum analyser like Mark Alexander recently did to the detriment of a Trinnov altitude 16s thd+noise specs as the volume rose..

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3112176-official-monoprice-monolith-htp-1-owners-thread-57.html#post59256678

You will find a full audioholics analysis for an XMC1 but that wont ever happen for a Marantz etc . All ce's should publish full AP spreadsheets . Whatever you get make sure its got full pre outs like Snoopy said in case you have to drive a low efficiency speaker set 1 day 

Edited February 18, 2020 by cwt

[gwurb]

9 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

Get the cheapest Marantz (slightly better for music) or Denon and has preouts.

So get something like Denon X3500H or Marantz SR5013 (just checked, has pre out) and add power amp, aiming for $2000 budget?

Would be better than Denon X3600H new (~$2000) in your opinion?

 

Noting that all the height speaker stuff is not important for me.

[gwurb]

5 minutes ago, cwt said:

The X3500 does 

 

If you want close to reference levels its a good workaround to choose high sensitivity speakers [over 92db say] like Klipsch ' btw good idea to check your 5.1 speakers sensitivity.. you dont run Klipsch do you ?

could you expand on 'The X3500 does' ?

 

I don't have Klipsch Front L/R are 90dB (8 Ohm), Centre is 87dB (8 Ohm), surrounds are 86dB (6 Ohm).