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SO WHICH CARTRIDGE ALIGNMENT METHOD DO YOU USE? BAERWALD, LOEFGREN OR STEVENSON

WHICH CARTRIDGE ALIGNMENT METHOD DO YOU USE, BAERWALD, LOEFGREN, STEVENSON OR NONE OF THESE ?  

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36 minutes ago, t_mike said:

An AP test record and Fozgometer certainly help correct the error caused by human eyesight.

 

Not only human eyesight - but also imperfect manufacturing standards!  :)  I have - and use - them both.  :)

 

However, I was visiting someone the other day - a physicist who knows a lot about the physics of vinyl replay - and he suggested it is possible that azimuth is correct when the phase angle on L & R is the same.  This doesn't necessarily coincide with when the selected azimuth gives the same crosstalk on the Fozgometer.

 

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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One thing I do not understand is how a particular arm and table would suit a specific alignment system, as some state? Unless there is something weird going on with multiple pivot points (which happens a lot in Mountain bike suspension, but not so much with tone arms), then surely it comes down to length from the pivot to the stylus tip, and the angle of offset. That said, I use the baerwald, because I have a nice protractor that lets me do it, and I had to choose one. I might have to give the Stevenson one a go. 
 

Am I missing something?

 

Justin

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1 hour ago, andyr said:

 

Not only human eyesight - but also imperfect manufacturing standards!  :)  I have - and use - them both.  :)

 

However, I was visiting someone the other day - a physicist who knows a lot about the physics of vinyl replay - and he suggested it is possible that azimuth is correct when the phase angle on L & R is the same.  This doesn't necessarily coincide with when the selected azimuth gives the same crosstalk on the Fozgometer.

 

Andy

 

Hence the use of the Fozgometer. As you stated earlier, carts aren't made perfectly. The differences between two carts of the same model are microscopic, but so are the grooves on a record. By using the Foz you're relying on electrical output, the same output that is eventually converted into music. Distort it on the way into your amplification and it will only get worse as it makes it's way out. Some carts react very positively to the fine tuning, especially in the upper frequencies. 

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4 minutes ago, t_mike said:

Hence the use of the Fozgometer. As you stated earlier, carts aren't made perfectly. The differences between two carts of the same model are microscopic, but so are the grooves on a record. By using the Foz you're relying on electrical output, the same output that is eventually converted into music. Distort it on the way into your amplification and it will only get worse as it makes it's way out. Some carts react very positively to the fine tuning, especially in the upper frequencies. 

 

The point I was trying to make, Mike ... is that setting azimuth to deliver equal phase in each channel - is not necessarily the same azimuth setting that delivers equal crosstalk, with the Fozgometer.

 

So which one is "correct"?  :lol:

 

Andy

 

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Baerwald because it's the most common and I trust those in the industry who came before me & not that I've tried others. However, I have spent real money on set-up equipment such as the most recent Feickert protractor, AnalogMagik software, digital microscope, etc and have learned to dial it in.

 

Edited by shawnwes

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13 hours ago, Juzbear said:

One thing I do not understand is how a particular arm and table would suit a specific alignment system, as some state? Unless there is something weird going on with multiple pivot points (which happens a lot in Mountain bike suspension, but not so much with tone arms), then surely it comes down to length from the pivot to the stylus tip, and the angle of offset. That said, I use the baerwald, because I have a nice protractor that lets me do it, and I had to choose one. I might have to give the Stevenson one a go. 
 

Am I missing something?

 

Justin

 

I believe you are correct in that, in terms of alignment, it does not matter at all what structure exists between the pivot point and the cartridge/stylus.  Imagine a square or circular flat piece of cardboard, with a pivot, and the cartridge mounted on it, and a certain distance  from the pivot.  You can, in theory, position the pivot to spindle distance appropriately, and align that cart to a typical protractor, and aligning to the grids will set the offset angle. Then draw any shape and cut away the cardboard leaving any shape (tonearm) you like.  The alignment has to hold true.

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15 hours ago, Juzbear said:

One thing I do not understand is how a particular arm and table would suit a specific alignment system, as some state?
 

Am I missing something?

 

Justin

 

My take on this is that the TT itself is agnostic, when it comes to cart alignment.

 

However, I can understand how an arm may well be constructed for a particular alignment - as my understanding is ... the offset angle varies across the alignments.  (So the mfr - such as DV - would choose the offset angle required for a Stevenson alignment.)

Andy

 

Edited by andyr

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said. Offset angle makes it different.

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@andyr, @t_mike, and @aussievintage, thanks for the above. That make sense. I think the fact that I am using a jelco arm on my linn, which has a 213mm, rather than 211mm length, necessitating a small amount of increased angle of the cartridge vs the head shell, made me overlook that in the usual circumstance you don’t need to do this and the cart and headshell are essentially lined up. Obvious really! 
 

Justin

 

988A9FD3-886A-481F-8D07-5D478CBB1BA2.jpeg

Edited by Juzbear

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Can't the offset angle be changed on headshells with slots?

 

Or offset by change of tonearm mounting point on some turntables?

 

And therefore allowing your choice of alignment?

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3 minutes ago, Citroen said:

Can't the offset angle be changed on headshells with slots?

 

 

Yes, just twist the cart in the slots before tightening.

 

3 minutes ago, Citroen said:

Or offset by change of tonearm mounting point on some turntables?

 

And therefore allowing your choice of alignment?

 

Alignment is about the cart/cantilever/stylus being tangential (zero tracking error) to the groove circle at two particular distances from the spindle.  Baerwald Lofgroen Stevenson specify different distances, that's all.  I would like to read a reference that specifies offset angle.  I tried, but can't find one (but knowing the vagaries of Google, happy for someone to post a link)

 

image.jpeg.6d383d5911286e80c1b3ed7e4dc7f0d8.jpeg

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I get confused with Offset angle.

Offset-angle-between-target-satellite-and-adjacent-satellite.png.aab5ad41015de9074ed381f782c339f7.png

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